Crime Springfield, Ohio: migrant workers from Haiti exploited

I don't know I only have the limited info to go on. And that's yet another reason bringing in people not familiar with the culture is setting them up to fail. An American born citizen would know a staffing agency taking that high of a cut of your base is so egregious it's ridiculous. Is it illegal? No idea but it's certainly NOT industry standard. We have staffing agencies here too, they are not talking 1/3 or 1/4 of your pay for their fee. What I can tell you based on both my own experience and checking rates in the area? There is NO task in a warehouse/manufacturer where that pay would be appropriate. We have third party cleaners, foodservice vendors, etc. and none of them are making anything anywhere near that low.

Frankly all you need to do is look at job listings in the area and anyone should be able to spot something fishy. Like I said I have a lot of experience in this industry and a brief search showed wages across the board are about what I would expect given their lower cost of living. EXCEPT for this place. IF these stories about $12.50 are true along with the stories about the tenements, this is exactly what I was warning you about.
I think you're jumping to conclusions without having sufficient evidence. We don't know what position that migrant had or whether it was a temporary or permanent position or how much the staffing agency is getting.
 
the point is you are lying to maintain a false narrative.

It is fact the wages are rising. The data is clear.

You seem to be arguing 'they are low generally compared to other regions' but with no consideration to if they were 'low' before the Haitians arrived and which direction they have moved since.

Your argument is specious. Even if tomorrow wages are up 100% since the Haitians arrived but are lower than other areas, you will claim the Haitians are the suppressing the wages. Just a blatantly dishonest argument.
You don't get it. Shocking. I never said bringing in these people would lower everyone's pay in the entire state. With all due respect, that doesn't even make any fucking sense. From the limited info we have, it sure looks like they brought these people in to work for somewhere between 30 to 50% less than the industry average for the work they were doing in that region. Hard to know specifics without more info. As a warehouse guy, if the other warehouses are ALL paying $15 to $20 an hour and seemingly getting by just fine, same as we do paying market rate here, then WHY does this place have to pay so much less than industry standard? Just lookinjg at the numbers as someone VERY familiar with this business, it LOOKS wrong. And they couldn't get people to come work here. To here them tell it, it's because everyone's a lazy meth addict that doesn't want to work.

But what about Dole Foods ($17.28 to $17.73/hr for pickers) Kellermeyer Bergensons Services (warehouse cleaner, $18 an hour.) Chewy (warehouse picking/packing, $20.75/hr) Gordon (1st shift warehouse selector, $19.70/hr)


That's just a few examples among many in the same city. Doing the same/very similar work. How come I don't here about any of these or the myriad other employers there bussing the third world in to work their jobs? Could it be because these companies are offering industry standard pay and benefits?


<puhlease>
 
MIke are you completely unaware that what you point at above is happening in many States (especially Red States), in Rural towns, where the younger workers are mostly all leaving to get educations and then building a life outside the smaller towns?

is it your position that as long as those small towns do not get in this type of Haitian immigrant labor, then you do not see this impact above that you are pointing at?

You seem to be making an argument that unless the Haitians (other immigrants) fix everything in these ailing towns, the instant they arrive then simply pointing at any challenges, as you do, means it is the Haitians fault, even if things are IMPROVING since they arrived.
Show me one of these towns where an industry, and it can be any industry, is paying far below market rate for the same work other employers are paying market rate or above for within that same city, and instead they're bringing in third world workers. I don't care if people leave their shitty hometown.

I care when an employer wants to just mass import a bunch of third world citizens so they can have a workforce they can abuse and underpay.
 
You don't get it. Shocking. I never said bringing in these people would lower everyone's pay in the entire state. With all due respect, that doesn't even make any fucking sense. From the limited info we have, it sure looks like they brought these people in to work for somewhere between 30 to 50% less than the industry average for the work they were doing in that region. Hard to know specifics without more info. As a warehouse guy, if the other warehouses are ALL paying $15 to $20 an hour and seemingly getting by just fine, same as we do paying market rate here, then WHY does this place have to pay so much less than industry standard? Just lookinjg at the numbers as someone VERY familiar with this business, it LOOKS wrong. And they couldn't get people to come work here. To here them tell it, it's because everyone's a lazy meth addict that doesn't want to work.

But what about Dole Foods ($17.28 to $17.73/hr for pickers) Kellermeyer Bergensons Services (warehouse cleaner, $18 an hour.) Chewy (warehouse picking/packing, $20.75/hr) Gordon (1st shift warehouse selector, $19.70/hr)


That's just a few examples among many in the same city. Doing the same/very similar work. How come I don't here about any of these or the myriad other employers there bussing the third world in to work their jobs? Could it be because these companies are offering industry standard pay and benefits?


<puhlease>
Some of the Haitian migrants do work at Dole Foods, its mentioned in the article:
As national media reporters descended on the streets of Springfield, I drove the side streets and E. High Street and tracked the unmarked white vans used by George and First Diversity, transporting Haitian migrants to their jobs at Dole and other companies. It only takes studying the flow of operations for a few days to see First Diversity’s business relies on the Haitian migrants. A steady flow of Haitian migrants go through the doors of First Diversity between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., sitting sometimes on the stone wall outside and walking inside with a seriousness and sometimes it seems a hopefulness. Behind the building, an empty can of ServicePro antifreeze litters the parking lot, beside a rat trap and a can of Twisted Tea on a window sill, not far from an unmarked white van.
So what's possibly happening is these companies are paying more or less the standard wage to the staffing agency who then pays the workers some reduced amount and pockets the difference.
 
I think you're jumping to conclusions without having sufficient evidence. We don't know what position that migrant had or whether it was a temporary or permanent position or how much the staffing agency is getting.
Right but those invisible factors can't just be ANYTHING or it's shady. There's market rates for work. There's typical amounts for staffing agency cuts. I'm telling you as someone in the industry, these numbers look shady. Is that proof, obviously not. We're working with limited info. But every single bit of this story smells like shit.
 
Some of the Haitian migrants do work at Dole Foods, its mentioned in the article:

So what's possibly happening is these companies are paying more or less the standard wage to the staffing agency who then pays the workers some reduced amount and pockets the difference.
Right I saw that part and it raises eyebrows. And even if there's nothing else shady going on which I doubt, that in and of itself is fucked. A more informed worker would know not to sign over that much of their salary. That's a scam. But hey, that's why they're bussing in people that don't know anything about the country so they can exploit them easier. <Moves>
 
It's like I could show you a puzzle with one puzzle piece removed. And the puzzle is obviously of a rich businessman stomping on the face of a common citizen. And you would really sit here like well it looks bad right now but without all the pieces I dunno....

Hint: It's almost always the obvious thing it appears to be.
 
It's like I could show you a puzzle with one puzzle piece removed. And the puzzle is obviously of a rich businessman stomping on the face of a common citizen. And you would really sit here like well it looks bad right now but without all the pieces I dunno....

Hint: It's almost always the obvious thing it appears to be.
But the problem is that the trend in wages is the opposite of what you'd predict. Doesn't that cause you to question the narrative at least a little and increase your general curiosity?
 
And that applies more broadly. The Haitians we're talking about are legal, but if we use illegal immigration as a proxy for unskilled immigration, the numbers don't add up for the rightist theory. You might argue that slow wage growth post GFC contributed to the falling unauthorized immigrants population rather than the other way around, but that at least suggests that the effect Republicans posit, if it's real, is very small. And in addition to the fact that empirical evidence seems to contradict it, there's no much logical basis for the theory. Usually people just point to supply, but rationally, you'd also have to consider demand.
 
Right but those invisible factors can't just be ANYTHING or it's shady. There's market rates for work. There's typical amounts for staffing agency cuts. I'm telling you as someone in the industry, these numbers look shady. Is that proof, obviously not. We're working with limited info. But every single bit of this story smells like shit.
I'm not saying its impossible that something fishy or even illegal is happening, I just don't think Nomani presented anywhere near enough evidence to make her case.
Right I saw that part and it raises eyebrows. And even if there's nothing else shady going on which I doubt, that in and of itself is fucked. A more informed worker would know not to sign over that much of their salary. That's a scam. But hey, that's why they're bussing in people that don't know anything about the country so they can exploit them easier. <Moves>
But again so many details are missing here that there's enough doubt to assume any number of things. You said yourself that some of these positions might pay as low as $15
As a warehouse guy, if the other warehouses are ALL paying $15 to $20 an hour and seemingly getting by just fine, same as we do paying market rate here, then WHY does this place have to pay so much less than industry standard?
If we assume that the position the migrant has is for a $15/hr job and he's getting paid $12.50 that's $2.50 for the staffing agency which seems more or less in line with the industry standard. If its closer to $20 then the staffing agency's cut seems more abnormal. Even though my understanding is that for temp positions staffing agencies take a bigger cut so even then it might not be out of the ordinary.
It's like I could show you a puzzle with one puzzle piece removed. And the puzzle is obviously of a rich businessman stomping on the face of a common citizen. And you would really sit here like well it looks bad right now but without all the pieces I dunno....

Hint: It's almost always the obvious thing it appears to be.
Its not just one puzzle piece removed, most of the puzzle pieces are missing here.
 
No one is putting them there. They are going there because they have connections to other people do. This is how society works. Lots of individual people deciding things for their own reasons.

I don't believe that for one second... 20,000 Haitians just decided to move to a small town in Ohio

lol... dumbass

"One Haitian man I interviewed asked to be anonymous for fear of retaliation and recalled how he was picked up by a driver for one of Ten’s vans on a street corner near a Winn-Dixie grocery store in Immokalee, Florida. After the long journey to Springfield, he was dropped off at a rundown home on Rice Street, infested with cockroaches. He soon found work through First Diversity at Jefferson Industries Corporation, earning $12.50 an hour; he didn’t know how much George skimmed off his wages. The home he lived in had no working heat, and he bought an electric heater to survive the cold Ohio winter, the heater barely heating his room."


Aaaand there it is. The thing all of us working class people expected in the first place. They imported these people to live in tenement housing while making $12.50 an hour. Like I said.


$12.50. Yeah no fucking wonder all the local residents would rather leave than work for an employer so shitty they'll just mass import people from the third world so they can get them to work today for the wages from 20 years ago.

It's EXACTLY what we told you it was. Rich greasy douchebags importing indentured servants because Americans don't want to do manual labor for long hours for shit pay. In Nevada you can't even get a high school kid to run a cash register for $12.50 an hour.

@Gutter Chris check it out the
exact bullshit they tried to act like I was crazy for saying.

There you go... this is the likely answer
 
What do people think the economics of this kind of immigration look like? One side wants them for votes, the other for economic exploitation.


Not really sure if your premise is correct TBH.

Happy to be proven wrong, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if immigration numbers aren't all that well correlated to each party. They talk a different game to get votes, but I think it's more lip service and both parties will fill whatever economics indicates it should.

Throwing that out there.
 
Do you think the leadership in the city of SPringfield (Politician, business owners, etc) did not know that is a very normal consequence of deliberately targeting a group, marketing to them and setting up help centers to make it easy for them to apply to jobs and get work visas to come to Springfield , with the promise of them being able to stay and build a life there?

Because that is what they did in 2017, under the Trump presidency, as they saw their town on the path so many small rural towns end up on to becoming ghost towns, with the very predictable result, that with success and a welcoming home, the Haitians hoping to become citizens would want to bring friends and family over too.

Probably. Sounds like a few elites in the community found a way for them to make money and increase the population of the community at the expense of the local population. Business makes money with low wage labor and government increases their population numbers without taking into consideration the demographics and culture of the local community.
 
Probably. Sounds like a few elites in the community found a way for them to make money and increase the population of the community at the expense of the local population. Business makes money with low wage labor and government increases their population numbers without taking into consideration the demographics and culture of the local community.
OR....

942m24.jpg


They recognized that if you cannot turn this trend around, it accelerates as the local factories either move to another city area with a growing population or shut down and instead of letting Springfield become the next midwest town on the 'Ghost Towns' tours, they decided to try to do something about it.
 
OR....

942m24.jpg


They recognized that if you cannot turn this trend around, it accelerates as the local factories either move to another city area with a growing population or shut down and instead of letting Springfield become the next midwest town on the 'Ghost Towns' tours, they decided to try to do something about it.

At the expense of the locals that live there already. The local government could shrink to the appropriate size or they can import 15000 people who dont speak, look, or act like the local population. I can see both sides of the argument but for me If i lived there I would hate to have 15000 foreigners in my community.
 
the point is you are lying to maintain a false narrative.

It is fact the wages are rising. The data is clear.

You seem to be arguing 'they are low generally compared to other regions' but with no consideration to if they were 'low' before the Haitians arrived and which direction they have moved since.

Your argument is specious. Even if tomorrow wages are up 100% since the Haitians arrived but are lower than other areas, you will claim the Haitians are the suppressing the wages. Just a blatantly dishonest argument.

It's like you guys are so busy throwing around metrics you miss the point on purpose. Pretend for a second you believe me. In this particular field, a large employer is being allowed to bus in a MASS of 3rd world immigrants to do a job. After they were paying well below market rate for that job. Now ignore if teachers or doctros or firefighters are making more. -
At the expense of the locals that live there already. The local government could shrink to the appropriate size or they can import 15000 people who dont speak, look, or act like the local population. I can see both sides of the argument but for me If i lived there I would hate to have 15000 foreigners in my community.
If you have enough money you just move immediately but not everyone can.
 
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