Shelling Up = Intellegent Defense?

[Phrozenspite]

I couldn't see the thumbs up so i can't say.

And I agree most hit his arms, maybe some got through maybe none, but when you are getting punched and not moving it doesn't matter.


I am going to see if I can find someone who has posted a gif of the finish.

If you are defending a sub you aren't getting punched usually.

Also How many times had Barao dropped Faber already before this exchange?
I don't think anyone knew how hurt he was, but Faber is experienced enogh to kow better so i am thinking he was hurt pretty bad.

If this was off a sprawled takedown attempt it would be a somewhat different situ but even then if you are getting hit and not moving ie making no effort to change the status quo the fight will get stopped.

yep, it was clear Faber had the leg. but we've all seen enough singles in that position to know that laying face down and not moving isn't doing anything. Covering up on the ground is an instinctive thing, not an intelligent defense

 

[HIMBOB]

he didnt eat punches. He blocked them. You are using factually incorrect points in your argument to make it seem like he was out and or done.

He was not out or done. And he was not eating any punches since adjusting his position. So you stop the fight? lol

He blocked them and ate them.
Just because he had his arms covering his head doesn't mean he was not getting hurt by them.

Anyway, as I have been saying all along the issue was the not moving, while getting punched. Even if Barao was landing cleanly on his chin (as we have seen in millions of other fights) if you keep moving the fight continues but once you stop moving it gets stopped.

 

[armbarforhire]

There is a difference between laying on the ground covering your head, and protecting yourself.

If this question is in regards to Faber, he was hurt, but, his head was not moving from the shots on the ground, his arm was taking the brunt of it, and he was recovering.

A fight should be TKO stopped when the fighter's head is repeatedly moved by a strike (or repeated body shots are landing etc).

Faber simply wasn't taking damage (once he was on the ground) - he took some hella big shots which put him there, but, he was recovering.

To put it into a stand up example, if a windmill fighter like Wanderlay just threw hooks to the side of someone's head and their arms were up the whole time, and he never landed a shot... you wouldn't stop the fight no matter how many he threw, UNLESS the fighter's head started moving around and damage was occurring.

Same thing, yes?

No!

Because while turtling up you are exploiting the rules that limit the attacker, while standing up you are still open to all attacks.

Thats not counting Faber knockdown and hurt badly plus the amount of unanswered punches.

 

[jamesgalb]

Cause the back of the head is illegal, so are knees, soccer kicks or hits to the spine. Again same reasoning as a boxer turning away from the fight if you are only leaving illegal areas open and not doing anithing to improve your position.

Still Faber couldnt do anithing from those hammer fists good stoppage.

So Barao has no responsibility to reposition himself and actually get a real TKO? He can instead beat on his opponents forearms with no physical impact, and get a stoppage based on the claim that he couldnt hit to the back of the head?

-Body shots are also illegal?
-Firing shots between the guard instead of just hitting the guard while not looking, those are also illegal?
-Elbows to break the guard are illegal?
-Knees to the body are illegal?
-Grappling your opponent out of the position is illegal?


wtf? Barao doesnt need to actually earn the TKO? He can just hit the dazed fighters arms and get an activity win?

 

[jamesgalb]

No!

Because while turtling up you are exploiting the rules that limit the attacker, while standing up you are still open to all attacks.

Thats not counting Faber knockdown and hurt badly plus the amount of unanswered punches.

As I said above, the attacker is not limited. There are tons of ways to get around a turtle that do not involve hitting someones arm or the back of their head.

Barao should be rewarded a TKO victory for not finding a way around the defense and instead just hitting it with no effect? really?

 

[SilvaP4P]

He blocked them and ate them.
Just because he had his arms covering his head doesn't mean he was not getting hurt by them.

Anyway, as I have been saying all along the issue was the not moving, while getting punched. Even if Barao was landing cleanly on his chin (as we have seen in millions of other fights) if you keep moving the fight continues but once you stop moving it gets stopped.

Those hammerfists were weak as hell and practically every single one was blocked by the padding on his glove.

 

[armbarforhire]

Even Faber pretty much admitted he didnt knew what else to do in that position (other than lift a thumb), thats hardly a bad stoppage.

 

[aztecas91]

So Barao has no responsibility to reposition himself and actually get a real TKO? He can instead beat on his opponents forearms with no physical impact, and get a stoppage based on the claim that he couldnt hit to the back of the head?

-Body shots are also illegal?
-Firing shots between the guard instead of just hitting the guard while not looking, those are also illegal?
-Elbows to break the guard are illegal?
-Knees to the body are illegal?
-Grappling your opponent out of the position is illegal?


wtf? Barao doesnt need to actually earn the TKO? He can just hit the dazed fighters arms and get an activity win?

fighters are warned before the fight starts about shelling up and just acting like a statue motionless. shelling is a dirty tactic face flat on ground only leaving illegal part of head exposed this type of stuff wouldn't be a problem in pride.

 

[armbarforhire]

Those hammerfists were weak as hell and practically every single one was blocked by the padding on his glove.

Yet Faber couldnt do (and didnt knew) anithing to escape or stop them.

 

[SilvaP4P]

Yet Faber couldnt do (and didnt knew) anithing to escape or stop them.

So what is wrong with waiting it out and letting him get tired?

Just look at this BS, its ridiculous!!

 

[armbarforhire]

fighters are warned before the fight starts about shelling up and just acting like a statue motionless. shelling is a dirty tactic face flat on ground only leaving illegal part of head exposed this type of stuff wouldn't be a problem in pride.

Or UFC years ago.

Reminds me of Vitor vs Tank finish (or every Vitor fight were he punches people in the back of the head even now).

 

[jamesgalb]

Even Faber pretty much admitted he didnt knew what else to do in that position (other than lift a thumb), thats hardly a bad stoppage.

He didnt know how else to defend himself, because there was no single other way to intelligently defend himself by your standards.

He was clearly making a statement about "This is all I could do, the only other option was to expose my face. There was no other way to intelligently defend myself, THIS WAS THE INTELLIGENT WAY"

 

[HIMBOB]

^^^ None of this is what Faber did, though. And I'm not a fan of the guy, but he was stuck in a bad spot and defended the way you must.

It's like saying If a guy takes your back the fight is clearly over. Having your back taken shows you can't intelligently defend yourself.

You really think that staying there and just blocking the shot you are getting hit with is what YOU MUST do?
Seriously you think any coach in the world will tell you if you shoot a single get sprawled on (most common entry to that position) then you just cover your head and let him punch himself out???

 

[armbarforhire]

So what is wrong with waiting it out and letting him get tired?

Just look at this BS, its ridiculous!!

Faber was warned and was refusing to fight.

 

[Harlekin]

If your opponent is only punching himself out on your shoulder, it is at least more intelligent than what your opponent is doing.

 

[RyanRAW]

aDepends on the situations. As far as Faber vs Barao goes Faber's shelling up was intelligent he successfully cleanly blocked the last handful of Barao's punches which were punches that had little power in them at that point. Stopping the fight off hammerfists to the wrists is a joke and Faber shouldn't have to improve his position when he is no longer taking damage.

 

[aztecas91]

So what is wrong with waiting it out and letting him get tired?

Just look at this BS, its ridiculous!!

maybe cause ref's warn them about shelling up motionless?

 

[jamesgalb]

fighters are warned before the fight starts about shelling up and just acting like a statue motionless. shelling is a dirty tactic face flat on ground only leaving illegal part of head exposed this type of stuff wouldn't be a problem in pride.

dude, you just quoted me where I listed 6 examples of ways the defending fighter is exposed for the attacking fighter to attack, and then say "Only the illegal part is exposed". Seriously?

If your opponent is covering his head, it is your responsibility to hit him in the boddy or find someway else to attack him. You can not punch his guard and then look at the ref as though there is reason to stop the fight. Thats rubbish!

(and btw no such shelling warning is EVER given. They make a statement about intelligently defending yourself, which CLEARLY SHELLING UP IS).

 

[HIMBOB]

So what is wrong with waiting it out and letting him get tired?

Just look at this BS, its ridiculous!!

Thanks for posting that.

I look at that and see Faber not moving.

Barao was looking up for a reason, he knows just as well as Faber does if you stop moivnig the fight is going to get stopped.

 

[armbarforhire]

He didnt know how else to defend himself, because there was no single other way to intelligently defend himself by your standards.

He was clearly making a statement about "This is all I could do, the only other option was to expose my face. There was no other way to intelligently defend myself, THIS WAS THE INTELLIGENT WAY"

Its a fight if you dont want to expose your face look for another job.

He didnt knew a escape for it and could do nothing, good stoppage.