Shelling Up = Intellegent Defense?

[SilvaP4P]

maybe cause ref's warn them about shelling up motionless?

Doesn't change the fact that he was not close to being out and that the ref is an idiot for thinking so as it's clearly shown he was being blocked the entire time and on top were weak as hell punches.

 

[SuperNerd]

If you're standing you don't have to block your face and worry about a stoppage. In fact you get bonuses. UFC refs expect the same out of you on the mat. Lose exciting or feel the wrath of the refs.

 

[jamesgalb]

You really think that staying there and just blocking the shot you are getting hit with is what YOU MUST do?
Seriously you think any coach in the world will tell you if you shoot a single get sprawled on (most common entry to that position) then you just cover your head and let him punch himself out???

You think any coach is going to say "When you are dazed, expose yourself and punch back". No, they say "Cover up".

Go to a gym.

 

[SilvaP4P]

Thanks for posting that.

I look at that and see Faber not moving.

Barao was looking up for a reason, he knows just as well as Faber does if you stop moivnig the fight is going to get stopped.

5 seconds of blocked baby punches is not a reason to be stopped.

 

[jamesgalb]

Its a fight if you dont want to expose your face look for another job.

He didnt knew a escape for it and could do nothing, good stoppage.

SO if someone puts their hands up while fighting, they need to find another job? If someone is rocked on the fence/ropes and they cover up, they should find a new job?

When someone is hurt they will defend themselves until the opponent tires or they find an oppening. You are saying this is wrong and they should never defend themselves when hurt? only look to hurt back immediately, right?

 

[MilesAbove]

You really think that staying there and just blocking the shot you are getting hit with is what YOU MUST do?
Seriously you think any coach in the world will tell you if you shoot a single get sprawled on (most common entry to that position) then you just cover your head and let him punch himself out???

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have some basic MMA training but don't train on the reg.

If you are caught in a tough spot, your opponent is trying to enact a maneuver, but you do not feel in danger, one of the best things to do is let him tire himself out.

One of the things they teach you during a sprawl is against someone with tremendous wrestling, if you do hit a sprawl you do not have to jump right back up. In fact, it is better to hang out in the sprawl and use proper defense to make the opponent keep working. Could you eventually be taken down through his second/third effort? Absolutely. But he will be more tired due to the grind than if you sprawled and let him get up and reset.

What Faber did was get caught in a bad spot. He hooked the leg, and he was covering the shots that Barao was "landing". He knew Barao would either have to stop tiring himself out, or maneuver to a different position. Faber was actually in much less danger in the position he was in than if he made it back up to standing.

The stoppage was bad. Your logic is flawed. But Barao has the win and Faber applauds his skill and effort.

 

[HIMBOB]

You think any coach is going to say "When you are dazed, expose yourself and punch back". No, they say "Cover up".

Go to a gym.

Ask your coach if Faber did the right thing?
Go on ask him, see what he says.

I know my coaches position, My BJJ coach is constantly shouting at me you can't stay there whenever you get to that turtled position, and my MMA coach calls that a finish so we restart the roll from a neutral position.

 

[Natman2939]

blocking is absolutely an intelligent defense. When they stop blocking or go out then you stop it.

 

[HIMBOB]

blocking is absolutely an intelligent defense. When they stop blocking or go out then you stop it.

You don't think not moving is a reason to stop a fight?

 

[SuperNerd]

You don't think not moving is a reason to stop a fight?

Yeah that sounds like a good reason to stop the fight.

But when the context is block or get punched in the face, it doesn't seem like a good reason. It seems like you're stopping a fight for fighting.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Ask your coach if Faber did the right thing?
Go on ask him, see what he says.

I know my coaches position, My BJJ coach is constantly shouting at me you can't stay there whenever you get to that turtled position, and my MMA coach calls that a finish so we restart the roll from a neutral position.

There's a difference between training and an actual fight though. Seems pretty obvious to me that you're not gonna keep hitting a guy who's in the turtle position in training. I bet you stop sparring once someone gets knocked down too. It's obvious that your coaches want to teach you good habits.
In a fight though the person delivering the punches should actually put you in danger. Fights shouldn't get stopped just because of bad position. Why don't we stop fights as soon as someone locks in an armbar? Or even worse a kneebar?
Barao's punches weren't of the kind that put you in danger, so there was no need to move for Faber in the first place.

 

[zzzdom]

Some people don't seem to understand that you need time if you want to improve your position. You're already in a bad spot and then ref tells you do something if not he's going to stop the fight. Yes, that would make sense if the other guy was getting clean shots on you, but in Faber's case he wasn't getting punched, he was blocking them with his hand and arm.

So of course he wanted to stay a bit in that position to recover fully and work from there, but Herb never gave him that chance. Actually Herb wasn't even close to stopping the fight, only after Barao gave him that look and told him to stop it, he started talking to Faber and that's when Faber gave him a thumbs up. Well anyway that is my opinion, that's what I saw.

Refs should never get influenced by a fighter. And it seems to me a lot of times they do. Like fake groin kicks, eye pokes and stuff like that. Refs should make their own judgements and not get urged by the fighters.

That's why I like John McCarthy, he tells them "I didn't see it, keep going."

 

[HIMBOB]

There's a difference between training and an actual fight though. Seems pretty obvious to me that you're not gonna keep hitting a guy who's in the turtle position in training. I bet you stop sparring once someone gets knocked down too. It's obvious that your coaches want to teach you good habits.
In a fight though the person delivering the punches should actually put you in danger. Fights shouldn't get stopped just because of bad position. Why don't we stop fights as soon as someone locks in an armbar? Or even worse a kneebar?
Barao's punches weren't of the kind that put you in danger, so there was no need to move for Faber in the first place.

Had that come from no where then I think it could have gone on longer.

BUT just before that final exchange Faber had got dropped AGAIN and was face down and flat out.

 

[zzzdom]

Had that come from no where then I think it could have gone on longer.

BUT just before that final exchange Faber had got dropped AGAIN and was face down and flat out.

A guy that's out wouldn't be protecting his face, you know his arm would be on the ground. Faber recovered, got on his knees and hooked Barao's leg and protected his face, that is a sign of a fighter still in the fight.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Thats what I am saying. Turtling up IS defending yourself. If you take a big shot and get dropped, I do not think the fight should be stopped because the other guy jumped on top of you and hit your forearms 4-5 times...

If you are dazed, you are not going to open up your defense and look to strike back while you are recovering, as it means you would open yourself to taking more damage in the seconds you need to recover. THAT would be UN-INTELLEGENT defense..

If someone turtles up, its up to the other fighter to find a way in and knock you out from that position. If you can weather the storm from this position you should be allowed to continue... The defending fighter should not be required to drop his guard and expose himself to further damage while attempting to recover, in order to have the fight continue. The other fighter needs to knock him out still, not just hit his forearms.

(all this said, some fighters that shell up are done, but as I said earlier they should be required to tap if they dont want to take more punishment just like with submissions. If they choose to turtle and continue, that is their choice)

Agree 100% yesterday was a joke.

Look at Brock ve Carwin or Shogun vs Dan.

If someone is turtling up ... do a GSP vs Serra 2. Change ur attack and hit the body to finish the fight.

Yesterday was a joke. Not paying for this crap anymore.

 

[HIMBOB]

So Barao has no responsibility to reposition himself and actually get a real TKO? He can instead beat on his opponents forearms with no physical impact, and get a stoppage based on the claim that he couldnt hit to the back of the head?

-Body shots are also illegal?
-Firing shots between the guard instead of just hitting the guard while not looking, those are also illegal?
-Elbows to break the guard are illegal?
-Knees to the body are illegal?
-Grappling your opponent out of the position is illegal?


wtf? Barao doesnt need to actually earn the TKO? He can just hit the dazed fighters arms and get an activity win?

As long as his opponent stops moving then yes, thats enough to win.

Its all up to his opponent, if he moves he stays in the fight, he stops moving and covers up its a finish.

 

[RyanRAW]

Some people don't seem to understand that you need time if you want to improve your position. You're already in a bad spot and then ref tells you do something if not he's going to stop the fight. Yes, that would make sense if the other guy was getting clean shots on you, but in Faber's case he wasn't getting punched, he was blocking them with his hand and arm.

So of course he wanted to stay a bit in that position to recover fully and work from there, but Herb never gave him that chance. Actually Herb wasn't even close to stopping the fight, only after Barao gave him that look and told him to stop it, he started talking to Faber and that's when Faber gave him a thumbs up. Well anyway that is my opinion, that's what I saw.

Refs should never get influenced by a fighter. And it seems to me a lot of times they do. Like fake groin kicks, eye pokes and stuff like that. Refs should make their own judgements and not get urged by the fighters.

That's why I like John McCarthy, he tells them "I didn't see it, keep going."

Agreed.

 

[HIMBOB]

Agree 100% yesterday was a joke.

Look at Brock ve Carwin or Shogun vs Dan.

If someone is turtling up ... do a GSP vs Serra 2. Change ur attack and hit the body to finish the fight.

Yesterday was a joke. Not paying for this crap anymore.

I don't recall Dan or Lesnar simply staying still, they kept moving and thereby showing they are still in the fight.

 

[HIMBOB]

A guy that's out wouldn't be protecting his face, you know his arm would be on the ground. Faber recovered, got on his knees and hooked Barao's leg and protected his face, that is a sign of a fighter still in the fight.

I think he got flash KOed woke up when he hit the mat, and then just covered up while trying to figure out what was going on.

Fabers mistake was hearing Herb say "you have got to move" and instead of moving he gave a thumbs up.

 

[zzzdom]

Yes that is what you think, but that doesn't mean that is what happened.

And that wasn't the first time Faber faceplanted or used his thumb to signal the ref that he's fine. Many fighters use thumps up to signal ref that they are 'Okay'. And that is pretty much what refs asks of you, to give them a sign tat you are still in the fight. I think Herb's focus was on something else.