Shelling Up = Intellegent Defense?

[Danespina]

Not a bad stoppage to be honest. Herb stopped it right at the brink of good call/bad call, but even at the time the fight WAS stopped, it didn't look like Faber was about to do anything anyway.

 

[hot carl]

That is the thing though. Faber had a single! How can your stop a fight when he is blocking all of the shots and working a single leg?

where in that gif do you see him working?

 

[Danespina]

This was way, way worse.

Herb gave Faber time.

 

[kflo]

Barao had to actually change something in order to finish the fight from there. He looked to dean for a quicker way out. He's gotta look at what's actually happening instead of insisting the fighter covering up and not getting hurt has to change up.

 

[Steve08]

I don't think the fight should have been stopped (nor the Wineland fight), but I'm also not sure why Barao didn't just choose to throw elbows to Faber's left ribs, the opening was totally there and also completely legal so long as they weren't going directly up and down in a straight line (which is, in fact, the only kind of illegal elbow in the UFC).

 

[jamesgalb]

The only reason this could actually qualify as defence is because the unified rules are shit. Allow knees to a downed opponent and this shelling up bullshit will disappear overnight.

you can knee a downed opponent, just not to the head. When someone shells, unleash the knees to the body, not the punches to the forearms.

 

[SewerPirate]

Faber should have made his "I'm okay" signal more clear than a thumbs up if wasn't going to immediately try to improve his position.

Different situations I know, but Quintana is giving a clear indicator that he's okay. The thumbs up while being turtled up was not.

 

[TheProphetAxel]

Faber should have made his "I'm okay" signal more clear than a thumbs up if wasn't going to immediately try to improve his position.

Different situations I know, but Quintana is giving a clear indicator that he's okay. The thumbs up while being turtled up was not.

I agree with this. The thumbs up thing is stupid when you consider the type of gloves they wear. It was hard to see even in slow motion, and you expect a ref to catch it live while he is looking at a bunch of other things? Faber was hoping if he laid there long enough Barao would tire out or make a mistake. That works in heavier divisions and against lesser competition, but at FLY/BW that could go on for minutes easily. You have to try and sweep/transition/improve position/etc. The whole single leg thing is kind of silly as well because as we saw from the Fitch/Hendricks fight, guys who are KO/TKO'd can still reach out and try to grab their attackers instinctually.

 

[Post Crisis]

No, unless it's too survive the last seconds of a round. Faber stoppage was still early, though. Needed more time to see he wasn't getting back up or progressing.

 

[7th]

agree with op and this has always irked me. Not intelligently defending yourself would be holding your forearm across your eyes or something stupid like that. Turtling up is definitely intelligently defending yourself. And I despise when you hear refs say to a guy getting hit on "fight back" if you want to defend by just protecting yourself from strikes, then you don't have to fight back at all at that time. Barao was throwing little taps onto Faber's arm and got the stop. That stoppage was one that should get him fired TBH.

 

[SilvaP4P]

In the case of last night, it was definitely intelligent defending and the stoppage was one of the worst ever. You are blocking and the guy punching is just getting more tired with each blocked strike= intelligent.

 

[Loiosh]

Because the only REASON he can chill and recover is because it's illegal to hit him in the back of the head. You aren't allowed to hit a guy in the back in football, either... but that doesn't mean you can get away with just running around the field backwards and now no one can touch you. Either you want to play football, or you don't. Either you want to fight or you don't. Exposing your back to your opponent just signals that you don't feel much like fighting anymore.

You make it sound like turtles are invulnerable.

 

[chubbman]

Turtling should be able to buy you a couple seconds, maybe like 4-5. But if you don't start working or moving, then the fight should be stopped.

I agree with this, 100%

 

[Cage917r]

It depends on how the person is "shelling up." Faber had a hold of his right leg, was blocking every shot, and also gave a thumbs up. What also can't be overlooked is the fact that Barao's hammerfists were not exactly being thrown with top force at the stoppage point. It was a trash stoppage.

 

[ticho123]

Brock vs Carwin is probably the best exemple of this. With Brocks guard game, covering up was probably the best thing he could have done.Its reality that sometimes when a fighter is hury on the ground working for a sweep or submission Will just lead to the fighter getting knocked out. As Long as you are blocking effectively I dont think the fight should be stopped

 

[Liquid Smoke]

tl/dr but I think the stoppage was bullshit. Best thing Faber could do in that position was grab a leg and cover the side of his head.

And Barao shouldn't be asking the ref to stop a fight. He should be looking to end it.

 

[Count Zero]

Shelling up for a few seconds is fine, in my opinion, but then you've got to do something. After that, even if you're not taking much damage, I think it could fall under the category of "timidity", which is a foul under the unified rules:



So maybe the solution, rather than stopping the fight, would be to stand them up and take a point from the turtled-up fighter. It gives them a chance to continue, but still penalizes them. Just a thought...

This is the only legit argument I've seen in favor of stopping the Barao/Faber fight when it was stopped (even if what you're saying is that it should have been a point deduction instead). I mean, we've seen fights stopped on a first foul before (at least I think we have -- can't think of specific examples off the top of my head)

 

[Count Zero]

You make it sound like turtles are invulnerable.

This sequence is what comes to mind everytime someone can't penetrate a turtle (such as last night when Barao was hitting Faber's glove/arm). Instead of looking up at Dean trying to milk a stoppage, why the fuck didn't he just knee the shit out of Faber's ribs with his free leg.

No controversy, highlight-reel finish, end of story.

 

[MilesAbove]

I agree with this. The thumbs up thing is stupid when you consider the type of gloves they wear. It was hard to see even in slow motion, and you expect a ref to catch it live while he is looking at a bunch of other things? Faber was hoping if he laid there long enough Barao would tire out or make a mistake. That works in heavier divisions and against lesser competition, but at FLY/BW that could go on for minutes easily. You have to try and sweep/transition/improve position/etc. The whole single leg thing is kind of silly as well because as we saw from the Fitch/Hendricks fight, guys who are KO/TKO'd can still reach out and try to grab their attackers instinctually.

To be fair to Faber, there aren't many things he could do to gesture given his position.

Yelling sounds like a vocal tap since there's so much noise in the arena. Waving looks like you're calling the ref to stop the fight (or at least COULD be seen that way). The thumbs up has often been used. Herb was just in a bad position to see it.

Faber was not in danger. And once again, I would like to point out that these refs really do need to take into consideration the history of individuals fighting. I also like what Faber said "A limp body is a good indicator". Now, that may be a little old-school for newage fans to stomach... but it IS the very best way to avoid these kind of problems.

 

[Loiosh]

This sequence is what comes to mind everytime someone can't penetrate a turtle (such as last night when Barao was hitting Faber's glove/arm). Instead of looking up at Dean trying to milk a stoppage, why the fuck didn't he just knee the shit out of Faber's ribs with his free leg.

No controversy, highlight-reel finish, end of story.

Some fighters know what to do in this position, most do not.