Sell me marriage...

It lets people know you’re not a homo. A married guy seems more stable. People see the ring, they think ‘at least somebody can stand the son of a bitch.’ Ladies see the ring, they know immediately that you must have some cash, and your cock must work
 
It lets people know you’re not a homo. A married guy seems more stable. People see the ring, they think ‘at least somebody can stand the son of a bitch.’ Ladies see the ring, they know immediately that you must have some cash, and your cock must work
What are you one of those fitness guys? Go fuck yourself.

FUN FACT: That role was originally going to be played by Mel Gibson.
 
I quit trying to explain things to OP because it's like Chinese to these guys. Their mental model is "I will focus on me 100% of the time, and then I'll be happy. Everyone should do the same, and then we'll be good." That view is influenced by other emotionally damaged men, horror stories of how some guys got shredded in court (but as I've said before, I'm not here to defend divorce courts, as they have some big problems with how assets are divided in many cases), and these weird beliefs about how "women have changed since our mothers and grandmothers." I find that last point really kind of funny because they can't say exactly when women changed and why. What I suspect is that these guys have perhaps watched a little too much Leave It to Beaver, ignoring things like the Victorian Era sexual repression was the response to incredible STD outbreaks laregly due to rampant prostitution, how shotgun weddings weren't an uncommon way of handling premarital intercourse, and how people have always experienced challenges in their lives. But rose-colored lenses are how many people choose to view the world, so it's not surprising when those expectations aren't met in the real world.

I view this response as childish, as you seem to, but I am willing to take it a step further. This is just the expression of victimhood as part of the snowflake culture that surrounds us, and it's rather intolerable. These men and their ideology are largely a derivative of the question, "Why don't girls like me?" Since they can't face the idea that they themselves are the problem, they have to suggest that all women are the problem. It's no different than a fat girl who asks herself why she can't get a boyfriend, a malicious bitch who can't keep a man, or any other person who has a truly off-putting character trait: The problem isn't everyone else, it's just you. You can either accept that, change something about yourself, and improve, or you can't. If you do, there are lots of possibilities that open to you. You will have the opportunity to date around, attract women that you want to attract, and, if you choose, marry one to establish a life together. If not, then all of those doors are shut to you because you are your own limiting factor. You can choose from other things, same as the man who doesn't have this character flaw (virtually no one has to choose between getting married and making money/having a career that you want, having a hobby, or whatever else, as that's just a false dichotomy). By merely being objectively better, you open more possibilities to yourself. But these guys really don't want to see this about themselves, so they turn a blind eye and repress it, rationalizing their behavior by establishing an echo chamber for themselves. Oh well, you can't make people learn.

Nice post, articulated and valid points made. That being said, I asked a question which it never got answered but since we are here, I will copy and paste it:


Now here is the thing with MGTOW. Just so we have no misunderstanding, MGTOW is NOT a cult, you do not have to sign a paper and be tied down like scientology. MGTOW is simply like a certain type of diet like lets say "vegan" or "paleo" diet that you can try and decide to adopt as a lifestyle. Now you have echoed that its a dangerous ideology because people that are in a fragile state will listen to it. This has given you ample amount of rage against a movement that in reality is just a philosophy and not a cult.


So I have to ask this question which is very important, what is it about MGTOW that makes it so dangerous? I mean what is the MGTOW saying that makes you feel like you are throwing your life away?

Have we said anything harmful like promoting drugs or dangerous life style? Have we threatened anyone with death if they leave? What is it that got you ballistic about MGTOW?
 
1. If you want multiple sexual partners, don't.

2. If you don't like raising kids, don't.

3. If you want to retire rich or retire early, don't.

4. If you like freedom to live the life you want, don't.
 
So I have to ask this question which is very important, what is it about MGTOW that makes it so dangerous? I mean what is the MGTOW saying that makes you feel like you are throwing your life away?

Have we said anything harmful like promoting drugs or dangerous life style? Have we threatened anyone with death if they leave? What is it that got you ballistic about MGTOW?
It's the Fox and the Grapes.

MTGOW is only there in response to disappointment; it's not an ethos in and of itself. Such a dependent mentality is for people with actual limitations, like a prison inmate who convinces himself he wants nothing outside of his cell. Opposite to the prison inmate, MTGOWers confine themselves; they are not otherwise restricted. Erosion of personal responsibility should not be celebrated.
 
It's the Fox and the Grapes.

MTGOW is only there in response to disappointment; it's not an ethos in and of itself. Such a dependent mentality is for people with actual limitations, like a prison inmate who convinces himself he wants nothing outside of his cell. Opposite to the prison inmate, MTGOWers confine themselves; they are not otherwise restricted. Erosion of personal responsibility should not be celebrated.
I know your post was directed at ogata but I want to comment. I don't agree with your assertion that mgtow is a dependent mentality that limits one's freedom. You could make the same argument and apply it to unions, claiming that they exist in response to disappointment and that someone who restricts themselves from working for low pay is in a self imposed prison. Why don't they exercise their freedom to work? Erosion of personal responsibility should not be celebrated.

Mgtow is in response to the bad deal that marriage has become (as well as the liability of children) because of the family courts. There's no shame in recognizing a poor deal and opting out. Mgtow are on strike from marriage and children.

Rather than shaming us, you should be considering if it's really fair that you lose everything in the event of a divorce. No one goes into marriage thinking it's going to fail, but over half of them do. Don't let your heart cloud your brain. Marriage is risky business.
 
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@TidWell show me this. oh god it is 5 of them? and growing

this jenna presely. she is born again virgin

12747285_481766492012379_6549643594981816207_o.jpg
Born again...lol

That's code for get the fuck out of there
 
1. If you want multiple sexual partners, don't.

2. If you don't like raising kids, don't.

3. If you want to retire rich or retire early, don't.

4. If you like freedom to live the life you want, don't.


LOL best part
 
i think that is mean. a lot of them are pretty and beside that are victims of sex abuse and explotation of a corrupt industry it is sad. i just could not marry one, so much baggage it like dating a drug addict it baggage that could blow up on you.

crissy moran from that video post above she hot wood


484693_10151671948996499_1868536442_n.jpg
Lmao at victimizing porn stars. They made the bad decisions that got them there. Nobody kidnapped Lisa Ann or Brandi Love and made her do porn
 
I know your post was directed at ogata but I want to comment. I don't agree with your assertion that mgtow is a dependent mentality that limits one's freedom. You could make the same argument and apply it to unions, claiming that they exist in response to disappoint and that someone who restricts themselves from working for low pay is in a self imposed prison. Why don't they exercise their freedom to work? Erosion of personal responsibility should not be celebrated.
Hah, you should have cited anti-racism. The logic wouldn't be any sounder, but it's specious enough to sound like something.


Mgtow is in response to the bad deal that marriage has become (as well as the liability of children) because of the family courts. There's no shame in recognizing a poor deal and opting out. Mgtow are on strike from marriage and children.

Rather than shaming us, you should be considering if it's really fair that you lose everything in the event of a divorce. No one goes into marriage thinking it's going to fail, but over half of them do. Don't let your heart cloud your brain. Marriage is risky business.
Who's shaming whom?

You may take your ball and you may go home and you may stay indoors as long as you want. Living your authentic life would not result in shame, but MTGOW is not authentic living. It's faking you're okay when you're not.

Marriage isn't a bad deal; people GAMBLE poorly.

You, you leave too much to chance in your faulty paradigm. Instead: insist on a pre-nup. If no one takes the bait, it wouldn't be any different from MTGOW but your romantic destiny is in greater control. You're weeding out the never-desirables from the undesirables.

If you want to gamble against a pre-nup, then make sure you've got a record of your finances, shared and individual throughout time, and be mindful of the changing separation laws of your state. I mean, you're already of the mind marriage ends in divorce, but rather than work with that knowledge you want to run and hide? That shame you feel is your own.
 
Always better to have a teammate in life.
Financially better

Disadvantage:
ups and downs. Many.
Same puss/dick...ideally.

You find yourself thinking of when you're 70 and you have someone to retire with that you spent your life with. That's going to be pretty awesome.

Flip side: human beings are not meant to be monogamous.
 
Mgtow is in response to the bad deal that marriage has become (as well as the liability of children) because of the family courts. There's no shame in recognizing a poor deal and opting out. Mgtow are on strike from marriage and children.

Failed marriages are for cans.

I like some of these cans, but they're still cans who just didn't do their due diligence every step of the way.
 
I've been married for 10 years, love my wife, love our relationship, and when my wife and i have some of our off the wall fucked up conversations I've told her to her face that if we were to divorce or if she were to pass away that i would never get married again and i fucking mean it.

Nothing more to say.
 
Rather than shaming us, you should be considering if it's really fair that you lose everything in the event of a divorce. No one goes into marriage thinking it's going to fail, but over half of them do. Don't let your heart cloud your brain. Marriage is risky business.

You are right about marriage stats, but the MGTOW lifestyle is setting people up to die alone. It is a culture of men who are willfully disqualifying themselves from the gene pool, instead of actually working on themselves so that they can have successful relationships. It's completely counter-intuitive.

I would rather just negotiate a better deal.
 
Hah, you should have cited anti-racism. The logic wouldn't be any sounder, but it's specious enough to sound like something.



Who's shaming whom?

You may take your ball and you may go home and you may stay indoors as long as you want. Living your authentic life would not result in shame, but MTGOW is not authentic living. It's faking you're okay when you're not.

Marriage isn't a bad deal; people GAMBLE poorly.

You, you leave too much to chance in your faulty paradigm. Instead: insist on a pre-nup. If no one takes the bait, it wouldn't be any different from MTGOW but your romantic destiny is in greater control. You're weeding out the never-desirables from the undesirables.

If you want to gamble against a pre-nup, then make sure you've got a record of your finances, shared and individual throughout time, and be mindful of the changing separation laws of your state. I mean, you're already of the mind marriage ends in divorce, but rather than work with that knowledge you want to run and hide? That shame you feel is your own.
It was actually you who made the claim that mgtow is irresponsible. If I'm responsible for myself then I'm responsible. Period.

Also, prenups are often thrown out. You would know that if you had researched the topic even a little.

The analogy is perfect, hence the reason you didn't try to dismantle it but only scoff.
 
It's the Fox and the Grapes.

MTGOW is only there in response to disappointment; it's not an ethos in and of itself. Such a dependent mentality is for people with actual limitations, like a prison inmate who convinces himself he wants nothing outside of his cell. Opposite to the prison inmate, MTGOWers confine themselves; they are not otherwise restricted. Erosion of personal responsibility should not be celebrated.

That's a fair point of view that you are presenting. Hence in that case I am the fox. Now just like the fox, I cant reach the grapes.

Now would this thread be considered an act of open mindedness towards wanting to change my point of view? Hence I want to know what the benefits are in getting married and so in way, I want to know what the grapes taste like and people who have tasted the grapes are letting me know about their personal vines.

In this analogy, the vines are every persons relationship/marriage. While the soil in which the vine grew in the present time is the cultural expectation of what men and women expect from each other.
 
You are right about marriage stats, but the MGTOW lifestyle is setting people up to die alone. It is a culture of men who are willfully disqualifying themselves from the gene pool, instead of actually working on themselves so that they can have successful relationships. It's completely counter-intuitive.

I would rather just negotiate a better deal.
Actually, you don't need to be married to have a meaningful relationship. You also have no basis to claim that mgtow discourages anyone from self improvement. If anything, it's encouraged. The natural reaction from the pro-marriage crowd is to claim that a person is being selfish and immature for focusing on themselves and their own goals.

Lol, which is it?

And you're right about those marriage stats. Scary stuff bro.
 
Failed marriages are for cans.

I like some of these cans, but they're still cans who just didn't do their due diligence every step of the way.
People change though. I don't think it's fair to always lay all the blame on one party for a failed marriage. No matter how sure you feel about someone, people and circumstances change. If one party decides they want out, then we know who gets left with the debt the majority of the time.
 
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