Sell me marriage...

[Pugilistic]

I'm not putting you down, but not being from here could affect your grasp of the court system.

Yeah, I was married before. I actually initiated the split with her not realizing how it would go down. I got off okay. It was a long time ago. I visit my kid. I got really lucky and didn't have to pay the alimony she asked for.

It's a long story but I don't hate anyone. Definitely not putting myself in that position again though.

Sorry to hear that mate. I lived in the US and I heard plenty of horror stories. I know some people who got screwed over as well. I also know some women who got screwed over. In Korea, women get the short end of the stick when it comes to marriage and i don't want to take part in that kind of system. But I think you can just do you and live your life without having to attach yourself to an ideology much less preach about it. Especially on the internet where you claim something, people will come back at you.

I stopped caring about marriage a long time ago but I guess I don't care enough a lot about it to talk about it either.

 

[Robocok]

Sorry to hear that mate. I lived in the US and I heard plenty of horror stories. I know some people who got screwed over as well. I also know some women who got screwed over. In Korea, women get the short end of the stick when it comes to marriage and i don't want to take part in that kind of system. But I think you can just do you and live your life without having to attach yourself to an ideology much less preach about it. Especially on the internet where you claim something, people will come back at you.

I stopped caring about marriage a long time ago but I guess I don't care enough a lot about it to talk about it either.

You can live your life and not talk about your beliefs but there's nothing wrong with talking. I like hearing alternative points of view. I might come off as preachy but oh well. I say what I think.

Sad to hear about women over there. There's always going to be bad stories on both ends of the spectrum. Too bad people have to get hurt. No one's perfect.

 

[koolinkunming]

He's exaggerating a bit.....Filipinas are very accommodating and they don't want to disappoint you. My wife tries to be sexy, but she just cannot pull it off...and that's sexy for me. I'm the same, so it works out. lol

edit: obligatory pic of wife.....

She's not gonna win a modeling contest, but neither am I. lol. She's a scholar and teaches 2nd grade, while I sit home, drink beer and wish I had a maid....haha. Most guys fuck it up when they go abroad and just find the hottest, youngest chick that will have them. Of course they have problems with that.

Haha whether it’s a good or bad thing, I’m not exaggerating. There’s things that she’s come up with for us to do that I don’t think I can type here without it getting deleted lol. More than half the time she initiates pretty kinky shit. A couple of times she had me kinda taken aback I guess is the best way to say it.

 

[Phlog]

People change though. I don't think it's fair to always lay all the blame on one party for a failed marriage. No matter how sure you feel about someone, people and circumstances change. If one party decides they want out, then we know who gets left with the debt the majority of the time.

The benefit of marrying is that you have the opportunity to grow and change together. What makes a successful relationship over the long term is that mission that you both undertake, to continuously reaffirm and connect.

This is why forming a life long relationship earlier is easier than later because so much of what forms you both is shared.

If my wife and I were, God forbid, to split (and we've had our moments,m where one of us has had to check the other) she would likely get a lions share of the kids time and I would support that. She's an incredible mother, I know because of that she'd want me heavily involved.

Money wise I'd be better off as she earns more than I do and a split of the assets would benefit me. That would be right tho because our relationship is one of equals, we both work and support each other making it all possible.

I know guys who are screwed by their baby mothers, that don't get to see the kids. But you know what? They're drug users, or fuck ups, I ain't met one yet that has been screwed over for no reason.


Ultimately if you pair bond with an equal and are honest with yourself and each other a lot of your issues aren't relevant. The benefits are what life's all about.

 

[sub_thug]

Nice post, articulated and valid points made. That being said, I asked a question which it never got answered but since we are here, I will copy and paste it:

Fair question, and I will use a few analogies to articulate why I view this philosophy as dangerous.

I will avoid making obvious embellishments, such as comparing stuff to Nazis or other extreme shit like that because it's not fair to anyone.

Veganism actually works nicely, and I think it is a fair comparison. So we might agree that veganism is a mixed bag when it comes to health. It almost certainly leads to less calories (since you can't consume meat and dairy, you won't be eating McDonald's burgers or a pound of chocolate like so many people do), you won't eat too much red meat (which is definitely bad for you), and it might cause you to take a good look at other parts of your health. Similarly, MGTOW has some surface benefits: It is better to marry no woman than the wrong one (I would just say that marrying the right woman is better than marrying no woman, so by entering the dating pool, you assume some risk), and it does seem to encourage men to direct some energy towards their careers and hobbies (which is better than rotting away on the couch or implanting your entire identity into your partner, aka being dependent on others for identity). BUT there are some serious costs to veganism. After a while, your body loses the ability to even digest meat, so you've permanently boxed yourself into this way of life. It's also not the most efficient way to have the best health, as most of the science I've seen reaffirms the simple truth that a well-balanced diet consisting of fruits, vegetables, eggs, fish, poultry, complex carbohydrates, and a tiny amount of red meat is the best thing for you. It's about balance. Similarly, if you adopt this MGTOW until you're 50, you've effectively removed yourself from having the possibility of having a wife and kids (unless you marry a significantly younger woman, which is statistically dangerous because those tend to be gold-diggers), so you're really painting yourself into a corner. Had the same person just said, "Well, that didn't work out. Yeah, it might have been painful, but I'm not wasting another second of my life thinking about that cunt," then you'd have an opportunity to get over it, and live your life to the fullest on your own terms. That means a career, hobbies, women, etc. Quick aside: The problem with so many people today is that they lack good social skills. Most of us, when we are young, meet girls in bars, clubs, online, or at work. In those cases, particularly in the case of work, it almost certainly makes you decide things. She probably doesn't have all the same hobbies as you, so you're forced to choose between your hobbies and spending time with your girl. In the case of work, you might actually have to decide between your relationship and your career. That's not good! You should be highly discriminatory when selecting a mate, ensuring that she has similar interests (or is willing to entertain your interests while you entertain hers) so that you can both spend time together and be together. When you do that, you've literally got it all. That's what I feel like I have with my wife. In a few weeks, we are taking some time off work to go snowboarding together in Aspen for a week. That's pretty great! In the bad times, she was there when I broke my back in a skydiving accident, and I feel like she was instrumental in helping me get through that. Aside over.

I guess what I am talking about is balance. Being dependent, helpless, or so afraid to lose your girl that you are unwilling to set boundaries (like those dudes who let their girls walk all over them) is one extreme, and I don't recommend it. I find it to be extremely shitty behavior, and that kind of behavior should be shamed so that others see it for what it is. Sometimes, that's like kicking a wounded puppy, so you have to be careful. But MGTOW is just the other extreme, and my fundamental problem is with extremism in all its forms. It's shutting off all women because of perceptions on how things will inevitably go (somewhat ironically, many of the older members of the MGTOW group are just dudes who over-corrected when they stopped being part of the first group (lets girl walk all over them)). I would assert that the balance is the key, finding the middle. There are definitely high-caliber women who are right there in the middle as well. The great part is that we collectively select those woman, leaving the fringes out in the cold, then the fringes will actually start to disappear. That has to happen because they aren't breeding, and well-adjusted parents are more likely to raise well-adjusted kids. If MGTOW's message was, "Guys, the courts are shit and might shred you (they actually say this now, and this is true). Because of this, we proclaim that the right thing to do is make yourself the best version of yourself. Don't neglect your career. Seek to be great at it, both in terms of its profitability and in terms of being a true master of your craft. Focus on your hobbies, giving yourself the outlets that you need to feel personally fulfilled, whether that be creative output or physical accomplishments (I will say that they pretty much say this now, and this part is totally fine). Be incredibly discerning with women, only allowing yourself to accept a woman that is on your level. Don't just grab the random hot girl at the bar. Look deeper, making sure that she is driven and wants the same things that you do. Only accept women that are your equals in life, someone that you can build an equal partnership with so that both of your lives are enhanced by the other (this is the rub: MGTOW just says to avoid serious relationships with women, definitely avoiding cohabitation and, above all, marriage)," then I would be fully on board. It is that final tenet that is just a hard no from me. Again, be discerning, be picky as all hell, and hold yourself in high enough regard to demand the best for yourself. But don't just shut the door entirely because you had a bad go at it or are getting impatient that the right one hasn't come along, assuming she never will.

 

[Phlog]

I think MGTOW and the SJW/new wave feminism movements have one thing in common: helicopter parenting.

Kids totally sheltered by their parents growing up into adults who can't deal with the slightest risk and so practice aversion instead.

 

[irish_thug]

I was going back and forth with someone who deeply believes in marriage. Sadly for most parts the argument turned in to personal insults and the argument turned in to a flame war and overall, it just felt like a shitty conversation.

Now I just got back from meditation and I am in a mood to open up to a new concept and take it to consideration. Would love to hear from all of you who are married or in long term relationships. What is the biggest advantage of being married/

If I sell it to you it's prostitution.

 

[sub_thug]

I think MGTOW and the SJW/new wave feminism movements have one thing in common: helicopter parenting.

Kids totally sheltered by their parents growing up into adults who can't deal with the slightest risk and so practice aversion instead.

We've really raised a generation of people who struggle with adversity. Definitely not a good trait. Most of us weren't exposed to enough adversity as a child, although I think the participation trophy argument isn't particularly good. I honestly believe that every kid needs to do stuff like set up a tent/campsite in the rain, catch a fish for dinner (or you don't eat), and experience a few fist fights (win some to build confidence, lose at least one to remind you that you need to grow).

 

[irish_thug]

We've really raised a generation of people who struggle with adversity. Definitely not a good trait. Most of us weren't exposed to enough adversity as a child, although I think the participation trophy argument isn't particularly good. I honestly believe that every kid needs to do stuff like set up a tent/campsite in the rain, catch a fish for dinner (or you don't eat), and experience a few fist fights (win some to build confidence, lose at least one to remind you that you need to grow).

I really wish I could take back that loss. Broken nose, broken orbital, ruptured the blood vessels in my eyes, concussion. But hey, at least its a terrible humiliating story.

 

[Ogata]

Fair question, and I will use a few analogies to articulate why I view this philosophy as dangerous.

I will avoid making obvious embellishments, such as comparing stuff to Nazis or other extreme shit like that because it's not fair to anyone.

Veganism actually works nicely, and I think it is a fair comparison. So we might agree that veganism is a mixed bag when it comes to health. It almost certainly leads to less calories (since you can't consume meat and dairy, you won't be eating McDonald's burgers or a pound of chocolate like so many people do), you won't eat too much red meat (which is definitely bad for you), and it might cause you to take a good look at other parts of your health. Similarly, MGTOW has some surface benefits: It is better to marry no woman than the wrong one (I would just say that marrying the right woman is better than marrying no woman, so by entering the dating pool, you assume some risk), and it does seem to encourage men to direct some energy towards their careers and hobbies (which is better than rotting away on the couch or implanting your entire identity into your partner, aka being dependent on others for identity). BUT there are some serious costs to veganism. After a while, your body loses the ability to even digest meat, so you've permanently boxed yourself into this way of life. It's also not the most efficient way to have the best health, as most of the science I've seen reaffirms the simple truth that a well-balanced diet consisting of fruits, vegetables, eggs, fish, poultry, complex carbohydrates, and a tiny amount of red meat is the best thing for you. It's about balance. Similarly, if you adopt this MGTOW until you're 50, you've effectively removed yourself from having the possibility of having a wife and kids (unless you marry a significantly younger woman, which is statistically dangerous because those tend to be gold-diggers), so you're really painting yourself into a corner. Had the same person just said, "Well, that didn't work out. Yeah, it might have been painful, but I'm not wasting another second of my life thinking about that cunt," then you'd have an opportunity to get over it, and live your life to the fullest on your own terms. That means a career, hobbies, women, etc. Quick aside: The problem with so many people today is that they lack good social skills. Most of us, when we are young, meet girls in bars, clubs, online, or at work. In those cases, particularly in the case of work, it almost certainly makes you decide things. She probably doesn't have all the same hobbies as you, so you're forced to choose between your hobbies and spending time with your girl. In the case of work, you might actually have to decide between your relationship and your career. That's not good! You should be highly discriminatory when selecting a mate, ensuring that she has similar interests (or is willing to entertain your interests while you entertain hers) so that you can both spend time together and be together. When you do that, you've literally got it all. That's what I feel like I have with my wife. In a few weeks, we are taking some time off work to go snowboarding together in Aspen for a week. That's pretty great! In the bad times, she was there when I broke my back in a skydiving accident, and I feel like she was instrumental in helping me get through that. Aside over.

I guess what I am talking about is balance. Being dependent, helpless, or so afraid to lose your girl that you are unwilling to set boundaries (like those dudes who let their girls walk all over them) is one extreme, and I don't recommend it. I find it to be extremely shitty behavior, and that kind of behavior should be shamed so that others see it for what it is. Sometimes, that's like kicking a wounded puppy, so you have to be careful. But MGTOW is just the other extreme, and my fundamental problem is with extremism in all its forms. It's shutting off all women because of perceptions on how things will inevitably go (somewhat ironically, many of the older members of the MGTOW group are just dudes who over-corrected when they stopped being part of the first group (lets girl walk all over them)). I would assert that the balance is the key, finding the middle. There are definitely high-caliber women who are right there in the middle as well. The great part is that we collectively select those woman, leaving the fringes out in the cold, then the fringes will actually start to disappear. That has to happen because they aren't breeding, and well-adjusted parents are more likely to raise well-adjusted kids. If MGTOW's message was, "Guys, the courts are shit and might shred you (they actually say this now, and this is true). Because of this, we proclaim that the right thing to do is make yourself the best version of yourself. Don't neglect your career. Seek to be great at it, both in terms of its profitability and in terms of being a true master of your craft. Focus on your hobbies, giving yourself the outlets that you need to feel personally fulfilled, whether that be creative output or physical accomplishments (I will say that they pretty much say this now, and this part is totally fine). Be incredibly discerning with women, only allowing yourself to accept a woman that is on your level. Don't just grab the random hot girl at the bar. Look deeper, making sure that she is driven and wants the same things that you do. Only accept women that are your equals in life, someone that you can build an equal partnership with so that both of your lives are enhanced by the other (this is the rub: MGTOW just says to avoid serious relationships with women, definitely avoiding cohabitation and, above all, marriage)," then I would be fully on board. It is that final tenet that is just a hard no from me. Again, be discerning, be picky as all hell, and hold yourself in high enough regard to demand the best for yourself. But don't just shut the door entirely because you had a bad go at it or are getting impatient that the right one hasn't come along, assuming she never will.

Good points about the vegans in the fact that some bodies cant sustain that diet for life while some maybe able to. To add to that, after a long time, you end up associating your identity based on that which makes it hard to break. Never the less, people do break it or sometimes they transition to a vegetarian diet. (which is one of my online businesses that I was mentioning)

That being said, people do change and my line of thinking is that, with the existence of MGTOW as well as MRA. You get to the see that the laws of marriage are highly flawed, the polarizing effect that is MGTOW forces people to confront the elephant in the room which is statistically men have been getting screwed over. Thus MGTOW becomes an alternative path until arguably the right woman comes in to their life and if it doesn't, then at least there is a philosophy for men to follow that allows them to feel content and simply not be shamed by being single.

Also regarding relationship, I knew this Chinese couple when I worked as a concierge in a residential building. They were in a happy relationship but they lived in different units. Eventually I became good friends with them and I asked them and they both mutually agreed that living together would deter the relationship because they would both lose their sense of personal space. Keep in mind they both had nice expensive units. Meanwhile at the same building, I saw shit tons of adultery from regular married couples and this was years before I knew what red pill/MGTOW is.


I will say one thing regarding the MGTOW, I find that the opposition often times has a tendency to get violent at their views. Like right now your post is great, its bringing valid points but prior to that, all the vulgar language was making me double down on the MGTOW beliefs. Now keep in mind, your post is not an example of violence but the example would be like Tom Leykis who promotes pump and dump who ended up getting assaulted by someone at a bar and got called all kinds of names.

When the opposition name calls the MGTOW or even attacks them, it doesn't make them say "oh my god I am wrong, I better start looking for a wife" but rather they would double down on their ways. Its human nature, like if you bomb Middle East or kill black people, you end up creating more opposition. You also end up proving them right.

In conclusion, if you want to destroy MGTOW, you have to destroy the preposterous marriage laws and the modern cultural landscape OR the alternative is to promote a relationship style similar to the Chinese couple I knew. Either way, something has to give, like Dr. Helen Smith has mentioned, marriage is an absurdly bad deal and until the law improves its better to be on strike.

 

[ssBaldy]

I am married and wouldn't try to "sell" marriage to you.
Unless you are oh so close with your partner, you are both responsible people and are absolutely sure it will make you happy, you should not get married IMO.

 

[sub_thug]

Good points about the vegans in the fact that some bodies cant sustain that diet for life while some maybe able to. To add to that, after a long time, you end up associating your identity based on that which makes it hard to break. Never the less, people do break it or sometimes they transition to a vegetarian diet. (which is one of my online businesses that I was mentioning)

That being said, people do change and my line of thinking is that, with the existence of MGTOW as well as MRA. You get to the see that the laws of marriage are highly flawed, the polarizing effect that is MGTOW forces people to confront the elephant in the room which is statistically men have been getting screwed over. Thus MGTOW becomes an alternative path until arguably the right woman comes in to their life and if it doesn't, then at least there is a philosophy for men to follow that allows them to feel content and simply not be shamed by being single.

Also regarding relationship, I knew this Chinese couple when I worked as a concierge in a residential building. They were in a happy relationship but they lived in different units. Eventually I became good friends with them and I asked them and they both mutually agreed that living together would deter the relationship because they would both lose their sense of personal space. Keep in mind they both had nice expensive units. Meanwhile at the same building, I saw shit tons of adultery from regular married couples and this was years before I knew what red pill/MGTOW is.


I will say one thing regarding the MGTOW, I find that the opposition often times has a tendency to get violent at their views. Like right now your post is great, its bringing valid points but prior to that, all the vulgar language was making me double down on the MGTOW beliefs. Now keep in mind, your post is not an example of violence but the example would be like Tom Leykis who promotes pump and dump who ended up getting assaulted by someone at a bar and got called all kinds of names.

When the opposition name calls the MGTOW or even attacks them, it doesn't make them say "oh my god I am wrong, I better start looking for a wife" but rather they would double down on their ways. Its human nature, like if you bomb Middle East or kill black people, you end up creating more opposition. You also end up proving them right.

In conclusion, if you want to destroy MGTOW, you have to destroy the preposterous marriage laws and the modern cultural landscape OR the alternative is to promote a relationship style similar to the Chinese couple I knew. Either way, something has to give, like Dr. Helen Smith has mentioned, marriage is an absurdly bad deal and until the law improves its better to be on strike.

I think the laws should be changed. The courts aren't doing a service to men. I also think that a lot of men don't do themselves a favor by not getting prenuptial agreements, take stock of their own property (when people split, they divide marital assets, which are only the things that people acquire after they marry, such as houses, income, vehicles, etc.), and marrying down in the socioeconomic ladder because the girl is attractive. As it comes to changing the laws, there are good ways to do it and bad ways. I think lobbying your Legislators is a good way, but I tend to have a pretty negative viewpoint on activism because for every legitimate movement, there are 50 that are just noise. I highly suggest trying to call your state and federal Representatives/Delegates and/or Senators to change the laws though. That would be highly productive! I highly suggest getting others to do so as well, as I think that's a noble cause.

Wow, that's weird. Interesting, but weird.

So that gets into the point of language. I wasn't trying to convince you then, if we are being honest. Now, I'm talking to you to get you to see my point of view. Before, I pretty much determined that you weren't open to the idea, and the people that I was really speaking to was the people who were on the fence about MGTOW. Right now, I hope that there will be one less person who believes in this MGTOW stuff for the reasons I laid out in my last post to you. Then, I was just trying to create enough shit to where there wouldn't be any new subscribers to the idea. How we use language as people is a really interesting thing, but that's a whole other thread

Yeah, violence is very rarely the answer. It's only in the very extremes where I think some ideas should be squashed, and it's only when those ideas are EXTREMELY dangerous to everyone in society that violence might be justified. For example, if you step up and say that you want to violently revolt and impose Sharia Law on society, then you probably need to be squashed. If you advocate for the violent overthrow of the US government to implement a Khmer Rouge-esque Communist regime, then you're catching some lead if I have my say.

 

[therealdope]

There are only 3 reasons remaining for marriage.

1. if you plan to have kids, the idea of commitment and a shared responsibility with a partner is pretty important. Marriage isn't necessary but it's a signal that you are serious about raising your kids. A signal, not a validation.

2. There are really good looking women who are educated, with a career plan, and they have their shit together. THey didn't blow the football team in high school or skank it up in college. If you happen to find one of these gems, you might want to marry her before you are thirty. If they have their shit together they're just not going to marry a guy who whored into his mid 30s and got hammered at every opportunity.

3. A lot of people don't want to die alone. I don't think this is such a big deal but it is for a lot of people.

Out of the above, I think only #1 and #2, are worth getting married over, otherwise don't bother.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Fair question, and I will use a few analogies to articulate why I view this philosophy as dangerous.

I will avoid making obvious embellishments, such as comparing stuff to Nazis or other extreme shit like that because it's not fair to anyone.

Veganism actually works nicely, and I think it is a fair comparison. So we might agree that veganism is a mixed bag when it comes to health. It almost certainly leads to less calories (since you can't consume meat and dairy, you won't be eating McDonald's burgers or a pound of chocolate like so many people do), you won't eat too much red meat (which is definitely bad for you), and it might cause you to take a good look at other parts of your health. Similarly, MGTOW has some surface benefits: It is better to marry no woman than the wrong one (I would just say that marrying the right woman is better than marrying no woman, so by entering the dating pool, you assume some risk), and it does seem to encourage men to direct some energy towards their careers and hobbies (which is better than rotting away on the couch or implanting your entire identity into your partner, aka being dependent on others for identity). BUT there are some serious costs to veganism. After a while, your body loses the ability to even digest meat, so you've permanently boxed yourself into this way of life. It's also not the most efficient way to have the best health, as most of the science I've seen reaffirms the simple truth that a well-balanced diet consisting of fruits, vegetables, eggs, fish, poultry, complex carbohydrates, and a tiny amount of red meat is the best thing for you. It's about balance. Similarly, if you adopt this MGTOW until you're 50, you've effectively removed yourself from having the possibility of having a wife and kids (unless you marry a significantly younger woman, which is statistically dangerous because those tend to be gold-diggers), so you're really painting yourself into a corner. Had the same person just said, "Well, that didn't work out. Yeah, it might have been painful, but I'm not wasting another second of my life thinking about that cunt," then you'd have an opportunity to get over it, and live your life to the fullest on your own terms. That means a career, hobbies, women, etc. Quick aside: The problem with so many people today is that they lack good social skills. Most of us, when we are young, meet girls in bars, clubs, online, or at work. In those cases, particularly in the case of work, it almost certainly makes you decide things. She probably doesn't have all the same hobbies as you, so you're forced to choose between your hobbies and spending time with your girl. In the case of work, you might actually have to decide between your relationship and your career. That's not good! You should be highly discriminatory when selecting a mate, ensuring that she has similar interests (or is willing to entertain your interests while you entertain hers) so that you can both spend time together and be together. When you do that, you've literally got it all. That's what I feel like I have with my wife. In a few weeks, we are taking some time off work to go snowboarding together in Aspen for a week. That's pretty great! In the bad times, she was there when I broke my back in a skydiving accident, and I feel like she was instrumental in helping me get through that. Aside over.

I guess what I am talking about is balance. Being dependent, helpless, or so afraid to lose your girl that you are unwilling to set boundaries (like those dudes who let their girls walk all over them) is one extreme, and I don't recommend it. I find it to be extremely shitty behavior, and that kind of behavior should be shamed so that others see it for what it is. Sometimes, that's like kicking a wounded puppy, so you have to be careful. But MGTOW is just the other extreme, and my fundamental problem is with extremism in all its forms. It's shutting off all women because of perceptions on how things will inevitably go (somewhat ironically, many of the older members of the MGTOW group are just dudes who over-corrected when they stopped being part of the first group (lets girl walk all over them)). I would assert that the balance is the key, finding the middle. There are definitely high-caliber women who are right there in the middle as well. The great part is that we collectively select those woman, leaving the fringes out in the cold, then the fringes will actually start to disappear. That has to happen because they aren't breeding, and well-adjusted parents are more likely to raise well-adjusted kids. If MGTOW's message was, "Guys, the courts are shit and might shred you (they actually say this now, and this is true). Because of this, we proclaim that the right thing to do is make yourself the best version of yourself. Don't neglect your career. Seek to be great at it, both in terms of its profitability and in terms of being a true master of your craft. Focus on your hobbies, giving yourself the outlets that you need to feel personally fulfilled, whether that be creative output or physical accomplishments (I will say that they pretty much say this now, and this part is totally fine). Be incredibly discerning with women, only allowing yourself to accept a woman that is on your level. Don't just grab the random hot girl at the bar. Look deeper, making sure that she is driven and wants the same things that you do. Only accept women that are your equals in life, someone that you can build an equal partnership with so that both of your lives are enhanced by the other (this is the rub: MGTOW just says to avoid serious relationships with women, definitely avoiding cohabitation and, above all, marriage)," then I would be fully on board. It is that final tenet that is just a hard no from me. Again, be discerning, be picky as all hell, and hold yourself in high enough regard to demand the best for yourself. But don't just shut the door entirely because you had a bad go at it or are getting impatient that the right one hasn't come along, assuming she never will.

Agree with everything but the vegan part , my research has led me ( regrettbly) to the opposite conclusion, that a whole foods plant based vegan diet is the healthiest one .... not that I can do it (yet )

Been with my wife since 89 btw , find a good one and don't screw it up

 

[Hotora86]

Happened before. GF, not wife. Met me at one of my fights. Things went well. Then fast forward a few months. "You 'train' too much. Blah blah blah, not enough time together, we can't go out because you don't eat or drink during this time. More blah blah blah"

To some degree she was right. I train 6 days a week, abd when in camp 4 of those days are 2x. Regardless she wqs trying to cut me off from my social circle. Others have also went through this.

"Its your coach or me, make a choice Joe! ”

That's harsh. And dumb too - I mean she KNEW you were a fighter. It's weird with some girls - first they say they wanna date a guy who has an interesting hobby, better yet A PASSION in his life, next thing you know - that passion is getting in the way of "our life". SMH

 

[sub_thug]

Agree with everything but the vegan part , my research has led me ( regrettbly) to the opposite conclusion, that a whole foods plant based vegan diet is the healthiest one .... not that I can do it (yet )

Been with my wife since 89 btw , find a good one and don't screw it up

Well, I don't want to make this another thread about the virtues and limitations of a vegan diet, so let's agree to table that discussion until next week when another one of those threads inevitably pops up I'm a big believer that if you limit your sugar and fats, you're doing yourself the biggest favor possible.

Amen! That's the way to do it. Finding a good one is the hard part, I think, as many people buy too early when something "close enough" emerges, or in the case of MGTOW, wait too late so all the good ones are gone. Screwing it up is a whole different thing, but people seem to love self-sabotage, don't they?

 

[superpunch]

You'll understand it when you get older.

I used to feel the same way: why settle down, etc?

As you age, your ability to pick up women drops. 30+ going to college bars, 40+ going to bars.. 40 and going after 25 year old women -- you're going to be the old creep. And do you really wanna be 40 hitting on 40 year old women? That just sounds depressing.

Knowing that's in my future if I don't marry and settle down, it suddenly makes a lot more sense to me now to find someone now and "fall in love".

When you hit ~30, you suddenly realize that one day you will be 40, and that one day you will be 50, and you need to accept that limitations come with those ages. You won't be able to play sports competitively in non-age handicapped leagues. Around 50+, you won't be able to compete at all. You won't be able to pick up hot single women. You won't get chances at new entry level jobs to start new careers anymore. Eventually, you won't be able to work at all.

That means that maybe you need to start finding hobbies beyond training MMA now. That means that maybe you need to find a woman to spend the rest of your life with. That means that maybe you need to find the career you're going to do the rest of your life. That means that maybe you need cut out the partying and put half your paycheck into retirement savings.

You need to be realistic in making decisions about these limitations that will hit you hard in the future. Guys that don't and act like 30 is the new 20, 40 is the new 30.. are putting themselves into a place for a a world of hurt when they realize that 45 is actually old as fuck, and they're not 30 anymore.

 

[Phoenix Ikki]

That’s a hard sell

 

[Ogata]

If I sell it to you it's prostitution.

I have to erotic adult massages ands some of the women are super kind and very sweet to talk to you. No joke, often times the erotic massages are better than full service.

I am married and wouldn't try to "sell" marriage to you.
Unless you are oh so close with your partner, you are both responsible people and are absolutely sure it will make you happy, you should not get married IMO.

I agree, my thing is, its not that I am against marriage, I am against marrying a female who doesn't have real money. Like fuck it if she cheats on me she cheats on me tough shit. People get bored or attraction fizzles out or someone better looking/charming comes along.

In this case, if all things were equal, I would say well fuck it, it sucks it ended but at least it was fun at one point and she was with me for me not because I had money and of course, if we are both well off, no one gets screwed over.

I think the laws should be changed. The courts aren't doing a service to men. I also think that a lot of men don't do themselves a favor by not getting prenuptial agreements, take stock of their own property (when people split, they divide marital assets, which are only the things that people acquire after they marry, such as houses, income, vehicles, etc.), and marrying down in the socioeconomic ladder because the girl is attractive. As it comes to changing the laws, there are good ways to do it and bad ways. I think lobbying your Legislators is a good way, but I tend to have a pretty negative viewpoint on activism because for every legitimate movement, there are 50 that are just noise. I highly suggest trying to call your state and federal Representatives/Delegates and/or Senators to change the laws though. That would be highly productive! I highly suggest getting others to do so as well, as I think that's a noble cause.

Wow, that's weird. Interesting, but weird.

So that gets into the point of language. I wasn't trying to convince you then, if we are being honest. Now, I'm talking to you to get you to see my point of view. Before, I pretty much determined that you weren't open to the idea, and the people that I was really speaking to was the people who were on the fence about MGTOW. Right now, I hope that there will be one less person who believes in this MGTOW stuff for the reasons I laid out in my last post to you. Then, I was just trying to create enough shit to where there wouldn't be any new subscribers to the idea. How we use language as people is a really interesting thing, but that's a whole other thread

Yeah, violence is very rarely the answer. It's only in the very extremes where I think some ideas should be squashed, and it's only when those ideas are EXTREMELY dangerous to everyone in society that violence might be justified. For example, if you step up and say that you want to violently revolt and impose Sharia Law on society, then you probably need to be squashed. If you advocate for the violent overthrow of the US government to implement a Khmer Rouge-esque Communist regime, then you're catching some lead if I have my say.

Regarding the first paragraph. I live in Canada and a friend got married in Vancouver which is super expensive. Had the prenup and divorce time his ass got cleaned. First of all, he married a chick who was a party girl who was seemingly reformed but then once the novelty of marriage wore of, she became resentful thinking that my friend was brainwashing her and so she cheats on him and blames him for ruining the marriage. She and her lawyer convince the judge to throw the prenup away because she was in a "vulnerable" place and get this... my friend was smart and tried to hide his asset right?

Guess what, apparently there is a thing called a forensic financial analyst and long story short, he ended up losing 75 percent of his belonging!

Now regarding MGTOW, in the original thread that ended up in flame wars, I re read it to make sure I wasn't contradicting myself and in the first post, I was more or less MGTOW. Like I don't agree with their whole " all women are same!!!" but they do offer good points and I have talked to many MGTOW members and they are simply on the defensive. The intent is to not cower from the difficulties of relationship but rather make a symbolic statement of how comically unfair the relationship laws are against men. That being said, I have noticed some MGTOWs are more rational and fair while others are just seething with hatred. In conclusion to MGTOW, they are like a person from any field of career like MMA fighters, not every MMA fighter is going to be classy, hard working and respectful but also not everyone of them is going to be some low life scumbag either. You have your good ones and bad ones. (using MMA as an example but same thing with police officers and etc...)

All and all, laws aside, I personally would welcome a relationship with open arms. However I do have somewhat of a high standard. What I mean is, I bring to the relationship, raw food/vegetarian healthy dieting, boxing/martial arts/fitness as well as a lucrative online business and properties.

If she brings something like [insert healthy] diet, cross fit, yoga, ( just examples) successful business to match what I have, then yes, I would welcome her to my life as long as she doesn't associate with low life criminals.

Like I would be also totally down if its a fit older woman as well and open to all ethnicity. However, I would never lower my criteria. My standard comes from the fact that, when I was getting bullied and rejected and had to watch my tormenters got to bang bro, I decided I was going to rise to the occasion and place myself in a higher place in life with fitness, boxing, meditation and to bring it back to the beginning, I also saw you cant turn a party girl in to a house wife and thus standards are super high on my part.

There are only 3 reasons remaining for marriage.

1. if you plan to have kids, the idea of commitment and a shared responsibility with a partner is pretty important. Marriage isn't necessary but it's a signal that you are serious about raising your kids. A signal, not a validation.

2. There are really good looking women who are educated, with a career plan, and they have their shit together. THey didn't blow the football team in high school or skank it up in college. If you happen to find one of these gems, you might want to marry her before you are thirty. If they have their shit together they're just not going to marry a guy who whored into his mid 30s and got hammered at every opportunity.

3. A lot of people don't want to die alone. I don't think this is such a big deal but it is for a lot of people.

Out of the above, I think only #1 and #2, are worth getting married over, otherwise don't bother.

I agree with you, point 1 is important, for kids you have to establish a certain level of stability so it doesn't look flakey.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

When you meet the right girl, you don't need someone to sell marriage to you. Of course she has to also think you are the right man. So you might be waiting a while OP.