Sell me marriage...

[Dusty Rhodes]

Love fades....the older generation stuck with it because the shame of divorce was too great, and women weren't able to support themselves. I know plenty of older expats here in Philippines that just carried on with that, found them an illiterate jungle girl and made her a faithful wife...lol. Just buy some coconut wine for the neighbors and everyone is happy, happy. No hate on that, and in 20 years, I might be doing the same.

Lol jesus christ dude

 

[Bitcoin]

Anything you want to be sold on you shouldn't buy i.e. 2000 Hyundai, a street hooker (of course it's technically renting but semantics for this conversation)

 

[minute bull]

It's funny that you mention "don't deflect", when your response is full of deflections... no disrespect intended. I've never deflected any of your arguments and I think what you're doing now is projecting. You're scared that you're being exposed when in reality there's nothing for you to be ashamed of. This probably isn't true for all guys, but for you, marriage IS something you derive validation from, which is why you talk about being afraid or equal to the task. You derive your self worth from pleasing your wife, which is fine. You don't need to shy away from the label and I don't have a problem with it, but to suggest that others need to do the same as you in order to achieve their purpose is narrow minded to say the least.

I'll address your claim about mgtow being against common good, which is false and a comment driven by your bias. I don't think you really understand what mgtow is. You need not necessarily fear what you don't understand bud. There are guys on different ends of the spectrum of mgtow, sure. You have your totally red pill guys that have sworn off women completely on one end. I don't go to that extreme myself, but I also don't make a value judgement on those individuals like you do. No one knows you and what's best for you more than you do. You're not the judge of anyone but yourself. I'm more of what they call purple pill. I see some valid points made by members of the mgtow movement in regard to protecting themselves from family court, but I do and always will enjoy the company of women. I date and enjoy being in a relationship. I really only avoid 2 things, marriage and pregnancy, both of which are costly and full of risk considering the current climate of the western family court system.

Now that I've set the paramaters of what mgtow is, what are you arguing exactly? That one can only know themselves if they undertake tasks that are risky with little reward? Because that's what it sounds like with these statements: "The reason you refuse to see any other perspective is because those answers MUST come from you, and the only way you CAN know is by undertaking the task."
"It takes faith, will, and determination -- and in the doing you are granted these abilities and the commensurate pride that follows a job well done."

You could make these statements about anything. I could tell you to jump off a bridge saying that the only way to know if you have what it takes to survive the fall is to undertake the task and experience the commensurate pride that follows a job well done. It sounds ridiculous, no offense.

Back to the whole point of the thread, what is the benefit of a marriage certificate? What did you gain with that piece of paper that can't be had without it? Everything in life is centered around risk and reward. Simply telling someone to man up and face their fears is silly when there's no reward behind it. Everyone who goes into marriage thinks they're going to make it, but the reality is that over half end in divorce. The odds are bad. Why willingly dive into traffic unless there's a serious pot of gold on the other side of the road? That's the question of the thread.. what is the reason to engage in this needlessly risky behavior in which usually only gender, men, get screwed if it doesn't work out? I suspect that you and most guys marry to please your wives, which is fine, but not something I desire. 97% of alimony is paid by men.

I enjoy dating women and being in relationships with them. I'm honest and upfront about not wanting to get married and there are women who are ok with that. If you're happy being married then good for you, but to claim that everyone who doesn't follow suit is missing out or shying away from their deepest fears is silly. If you have any comments about the actual benefits of that piece of paper I'm all ears. I don't see how whatever little tax break you get can possibly outweigh the cost of divorce.

I can see the good in MGTOW, which is the drive to co-habitate exactly on one's own terms plus alleviating oneself from the kowtowing to the conventions of marriage. This doesn't change the fact that it spawns from a place that isn't so great.

A limitation. I don't need to explain to you why a self-imposed limitation is not a great thing, do I? Okay. A limitation limits. Yes, you can use it as motivation for a beneficial result, but that's like saying getting fired can lead you to a better job. It doesn't change the fact getting fired is bad.

Let's talk about fear. You've misinterpreted me as saying something like you have a phobia, but that's not remotely my case. Even with phobia, phobic people do not suffer day in and day out living in misery; anxiety hits at localized occasions. I'm not saying you're scared of marriage; I'm not calling you a pussy. So it bewilders me when people are like "You're trying to shame me!" (With what? Words? How is that even possible? Like, I can see how you're trying to give me the high hard one up above, but how I feel? I'm like, "Nope.") I didn't even say any of what you thought I said.

When I say "fear" you can exchange the word with "concern" or even "resent" or "loathe." It's not this huge, crippling dysfunction. I mean it exactly as you've written -- you resent the divorce rate, you loathe the fact men get screwed by alimony, you are concerned there is little gain for so much risk. Don't think the word "fear" is being used as a weakening, shaming device. It's a very legit component in your decision-making. The thing I'm saying here is that fears should be addressed and tackled, not used to abandon a huge opportunity for happiness.

No, you don't need the marriage certificate to attain happiness with someone. Yes, I could make these statements about anything. I think you're slowly coming around to seeing there's another perspective that only seeks to sublimate yours, not substitute it. The hamster wheel is definitely turning.

 

[Robocok]

I can see the good in MGTOW, which is the drive to co-habitate exactly on one's own terms plus alleviating oneself from the kowtowing to the conventions of marriage. This doesn't change the fact that it spawns from a place that isn't so great.

A limitation. I don't need to explain to you why a self-imposed limitation is not a great thing, do I? Okay. A limitation limits. Yes, you can use it as motivation for a beneficial result, but that's like saying getting fired can lead you to a better job. It doesn't change the fact getting fired is bad.

Let's talk about fear. You've misinterpreted me as saying something like you have a phobia, but that's not remotely my case. Even with phobia, phobic people do not suffer day in and day out living in misery; anxiety hits at localized occasions. I'm not saying you're scared of marriage; I'm not calling you a pussy. So it bewilders me when people are like "You're trying to shame me!" (With what? Words? How is that even possible? Like, I can see how you're trying to give me the high hard one up above, but how I feel? I'm like, "Nope.") I didn't even say any of what you thought I said.

When I say "fear" you can exchange the word with "concern" or even "resent" or "loathe." It's not this huge, crippling dysfunction. I mean it exactly as you've written -- you resent the divorce rate, you loathe the fact men get screwed by alimony, you are concerned there is little gain for so much risk. Don't think the word "fear" is being used as a weakening, shaming device. It's a very legit component in your decision-making. The thing I'm saying here is that fears should be addressed and tackled, not used to abandon a huge opportunity for happiness.

No, you don't need the marriage certificate to attain happiness with someone. Yes, I could make these statements about anything. I think you're slowly coming around to seeing there's another perspective that only seeks to sublimate yours, not substitute it. The hamster wheel is definitely turning.

Other than "a huge opportunity for happiness" I didn't see a single argument for the benefits of signing a marriage contract.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

Benefits:

• your wife blows to whale-like proportions within 2-10 months
• divorce costs you half your stuff
• you pay child support for almost 2 decades (weather the kid is yours or not)
• sexy time gets less frequent and becomes dead-fish like: She ain't feeling it, you demand/ask, she ain't feeling it, then a month later after this back and forth, you spend some $$$ or give her allowances, then she's "into it", and lays there like a fish out of water and its like a shitty jack off session
• your money becomes "our money"
• gots to give up your hobbies and friends since that time should be spent with the misses
• you get fat as well. She don't like you going to the gym cause her money pot might get swooped up by a boise dime cardio bunny at your local gym
• You post more on Sherdog

sounds pretty great to me, why wouldn't anyone want it

lmfao

 

[Jack Handy jr]

Why I should sell you on marriage?

I've been married for 22 years and I dated a lot before I settled down. Until you find the right one (and make DAAAAAAAANNNNNNG sure they're the right one), remember this..

"These hoes ain't loyal."

I have my wife's back and she has mine. I've always got her in my corner and vice versa. Make SURE you pick the right one though.

 

[minute bull]

Other than "a huge opportunity for happiness" I didn't see a single argument for the benefits of signing a marriage contract.

I'm not arguing for marriage. I just said it was the ultimate proving ground for social interaction.

I get that you like to weave your way around the discussion for "gotcha" moments, but our discussion moved on from the initial topic. Right now we're talking about each other, only you're doing so pejoratively while I'm just spitballing at reasons for your antagonism for either of two outcomes, and they're both for you! It's because you'll either accept what I say, thus learn something new about yourself, or you won't accept what I say, and you'll reinforce what you already think. You get to feel good about yourself, either way!

 

[Robocok]

I'm not arguing for marriage. I just said it was the ultimate proving ground for social interaction.

I get that you like to weave your way around the discussion for "gotcha" moments, but our discussion moved on from the initial topic. Right now we're talking about each other, only you're doing so pejoratively while I'm just spitballing at reasons for your antagonism for either of two outcomes, and they're both for you! It's because you'll either accept what I say, thus learn something new about yourself, or you won't accept what I say, and you'll reinforce what you already think. You get to feel good about yourself, either way!

I'm not trying to put you down. I figured we were still talking about marriage. I like women, just don't want to marry them. Happy for you that you're happy with your wife. Hope it lasts for a long time.

 

[minute bull]

I'm not trying to put you down.

Oh, it's fine. It's all part of the dialogue. I appreciate a good rejoinder.

You know, when they occur.


We are still talking about marriage, but it's more about your antipathy and why. See, no one can be sold on marriage. Just like you can't get into the panic room, you gotta get them to come out. This is a much more direct line into changing your mind about the concept, but I wholly accept that you do not desire change. This is why I'm not much for delving too deeply to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. It's a disingenuous question, but one whose nature bears examination. Such is rhetoric.

Of course the problem with examining why a person refuses to be convinced can get too personal, thus the walls fly up. And I attribute that to my cavalier approach more than any else's reticence.

My original point is that criteria isn't the same for every marriage. Every aspect is different, so the criteria for why I think I myself should get married may have absolute zero with yours regarding yourself. Then what happens is no matter what I say, you get to enjoy a position of abject denial. Like, if I was a doctor and said you should be a doctor, you can easily give me hundreds of reasons why I'm wrong, predicated on the fact you're a lawyer. From my standpoint, it's not why should you be sold on marriage but rather why should I sell you on marriage?

Without appreciating where the other person is coming from, discussion won't get very far. You'll see Ogata gave up on me a while back.