International Orban: "We do not need numbers. We need Hungarian children."

[JamesRussler]

At that point, it goes back to my original post: Conservatives are fine with Socialism when its in the service of White Supremacy. Liberals are happy to share the benefits of a progressive policy with other races.

If everyone were equally productive, people probably wouldn't have as much of a problem with "sharing" the benefits of their labor with the population at large. That's why socialist policies only work (if ever) in tiny, homogenous countries. Chalking it up to racism is just fanning the flames.

 

[cooks1]

The Hungarian conservative party is making sense. They don't want their neighborhoods to be overrun with Islam like London. The UK, Germany and Sweden are all having problems with Islamic immigrants and their offspring. Islamic countries are all ruined by Islam, and the west needs to keep them from coming over, bringing their ideals and culture and ruining ours too.

LOL. Do you have so little belief in the value of your faith, culture, and ideals that you do not believe they can survive competing with the alternative culture and ideology of Islam? That's a bunch of weaksauce right there.

 

[Squarechoke]

That would be more impressive if they could actually afford it, but Hungary remains the biggest freeloader in the EU. Unlike with the UK the EU would get stronger without Hungary, but surprise, surprise - the country that is so openly against EU policies won't leave. They don't want to go back to what they were before they started receiving handouts.

 

[Rod1]

Basically USA Citizens whose status is not controversial (e.g., no "anchor babies," no dual citizens, no lottery winners, etc.). That's probably a good subject for another thread.

How do you reconcile such policy with the 14th?

 

[Bald1]

Change the media. Drop porn, and bring back the notion of love.

Drop porn in Hungary? You'd be better off asking them to accept Muslims into the country.

 

[evansusmc2]

America was strongest when:

We promoted marriage, not shacking up and aborting our own babies

When we honored family, the Bible and God

When we honored hard work, not socialism and entitlement

Damn it Rip!

I was on board with your first comment. You had us all lubed up and cozy. Then you snuck the bible bastard sandwich in on us.

 

[JamesRussler]

How do you reconcile such policy with the 14th?

Birthright citizenship isn't in the 14A, and I doubt the current Court would read it in there. For further reading on that subject, start here.

 

[Ripskater]

Damn it Rip!

I was on board with you first comment. You had us all lubed up and cozy. Then you snuck the bible bastard sandwich in on us.

Ha ha! We won't agree on everything.

 

[Rod1]

Birthright citizenship isn't in the 14A, and I doubt the current Court would read it in there. For further reading on that subject, start here.

Nope, but equal protection is, so if you want to make any policy that boost birth rates it will be available to all citizens. Even non-whites.

 

[Renard]

Leaders need to ask themselves why the population is dropping in the first place. Why aren't people having children? Why are people leaving?

Instead of incentivizing pregnancies that people would not otherwise want, maybe they should address the core issues and let it happen organically.

... Do you not realize that birth control has fucked up holistic population dynamics forever? Our grasp of technology has fundamentally changed the rules that have existed since the beginning of humanity. There's no letting anything happen organically, that's been out of the window since the 1960s and the entry of the birth control pill on the mainstream market. Nature's carrot to get humans to have children is not effective anymore. Y'all stupid if you don't realize that.

 

[Rod1]

... Do you not realize that birth control has fucked up holistic population dynamics forever? Our grasp of technology has fundamentally changed the rules that have existed since the beginning of humanity. There's no letting anything happen organically, that's been out of the window since the 1960s and the entry of the birth control pill on the mainstream market. Nature's carrot to get humans to have children is not effective anymore. Y'all stupid if you don't realize that.

The good ol' pullout game has been in existence since forever man, so its not really the pill to blame.

 

[evansusmc2]

Because women and men prefer to have fun than to raise children. When you marry and have children you cannot go around dating people on tinder, going to spring breaks or "investing" in traveling. That's among the dumb.
Among the smart you will not be able to get that all important math PhD.

You are forgetting to mention the disproportionately unfair divorce hell put in place. I've seen men lose everything a few months after one kid. Simply put, the laws need to change.

 

[Cole train]

There are declining birth rates and then there are collapsing birth rates. Finland and Hungary have dealt with collapsing birth rates. These can certainly be corrected with viable policy.

Anyway, it appears to me that Hungary has corrected their downward projections, so hooray for them:

Finland is still in the muck.

There are some problems still with Hungary's situation that are detailed here, but to atleast some extent, the policies seem to be working:

Hungary’s fertility rates are still extremely low: only about 1.5 children per woman. The government is spending huge amounts of money and will probably never reach replacement-rate with this strategy. However, Hungary is experiencing some fertility gains, probably at least partly as a result of a basket of policy changes including tax preferences, cash grants, loan subsidies, constitutional protections, and costly political signaling. But to the extent these policies are working, they are effective because they are not being used in isolation, but rather together as a whole concert of pro-natal policies and cultural nudges. And they are working because they induce marriage, not simply childbearing, and marriage helps boost long-run fertility, not just birth-timing.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-hungary-experiencing-a-policy-induced-baby-boom

I gotta feel that our country wont exist in the future or at least finnish people wont and finnish culture wont.

That being said our people seem to be waking up a bit lately (thanks to oulu)

The goverment can still go fuck themselfs

 

[Bald1]

I gotta feel that our country wont exist in the future or at least finnish people wont and finnish culture wont.

That being said our people seem to be waking up a bit lately (thanks to oulu)

The goverment can still go fuck themselfs

Disagreed.

Finno-ugric folks have weathered some of the harshest invasions and have been the "nail that sticks out" for centuries and yet still hold their ground. To weather the USSR and the Ottomans at their height of power while being so vastly outnumbered is no mean feat. And while I bet you Finns have more of the original blood than us Magyars, the obstinance still runs deep in all 3 people's. Estonians being the 3rd, of course.

 

[evansusmc2]

God made most girls with the desire to get married and raise children.

Holy roller crap... here we go again. Enough of the prophet Ripskater nonsense.

I'll tell you this. A career and money can't buy you joy.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say its usually the people that say this usually don't have either.

When you're old and gray, the people that seem happy are the people that had a strong family and they loved each other.

You are not the Authority on who is happy and who isn't.

A result of this is less children. And a bunch of feminists calling for illegal immigrants and even Islam followers to come into our borders. It's insanity.

OK I'll agree with you on this.

 

[IDL]

It's certainly a rational response as opposed to embarking on a great replacement project.

Implementation isn't easy though, in terms of fostering conditions in which people will have larger families. A lot has to do with values, and there are so many competing values (such as Hollywood and trashy TV).

Israel is probably the most successful in this regard so lessons could probably be learned there.

 

[Cole train]

Disagreed.

Finno-ugric folks have weathered some of the harshest invasions and have been the "nail that sticks out" for centuries and yet still hold their ground. To weather the USSR and the Ottomans at their height of power while being so vastly outnumbered is no mean feat. And while I bet you Finns have more of the original blood than us Magyars, the obstinance still runs deep in all 3 people's.

We will see

But i can say if europe starts falling we will be among last countries to fall.

 

[panamaican]

Virtually all developed countries and even some developing countries have this problem of birth rates. The reality is that something about liberal capitalist democracy just isn't so friendly to families or at least makes people not want to start them. More often than not these programs don't incentivize pregnancies people don't want but allow them to have the pregnancy they do want but otherwise didn't think was feasible financially.

The reasons aren't unknown, the basic trade off has been well discussed for a while. When the risk of children dying young is high, people have more kids. When the risk is low, people devote more resources to fewer children.

As countries become wealthier with better healthcare systems, the risk of early childhood deaths decline so people have fewer kids and instead devote more of their income to making sure that 1 kid is all he/she can be. This is why we see the decline in birth rates in regions with high relative wealth and that the world birth rate has been declining for years. Now only the poorest countries have high birth rates and even they are slowing down as the economic and health gains in the rest of the world finally make it down to them.

The capitalism problem is that so much economic policy is driven by growth and you can't have perpetual economic growth with a shrinking or stagnant population. So capitalism needs more people so that more things are bought and sold and tax revenue can increase. But biology doesn't need more people. And thus the conflict/concern about birth rates.

 

[Bald1]

We will see

But i can say if europe starts falling we will be among last countries to fall.

I don't think Europe will fall. For every head in the skies idealist there are two practical prople. For every supporter of globalism there are two with at least a cursory knowledge of their countries history. Besides, Europe isn't just Germany, France and Brittain. No matter what their inhabitants might think.

Look at it this way - the V4 don't really have any love for each other (with the exception of Europe's longest bromance between Poland and Hungary) yet support the same goals when it comes to population control. If the Czech and Hungarians can see eye to eye on something then anyone can.

 

[7437]

lol, I guess conservatives are ok with Socialism as long as it's steeped in white supremacy.

as long as its some sort of...... National Socialism