International Orban: "We do not need numbers. We need Hungarian children."

[Scheme]

The reasons aren't unknown, the basic trade off has been well discussed for a while. When the risk of children dying young is high, people have more kids. When the risk is low, people devote more resources to fewer children.

As countries become wealthier with better healthcare systems, the risk of early childhood deaths decline so people have fewer kids and instead devote more of their income to making sure that 1 kid is all he/she can be. This is why we see the decline in birth rates in regions with high relative wealth and that the world birth rate has been declining for years. Now only the poorest countries have high birth rates and even they are slowing down as the economic and health gains in the rest of the world finally make it down to them.

The capitalism problem is that so much economic policy is driven by growth and you can't have perpetual economic growth with a shrinking or stagnant population. So capitalism needs more people so that more things are bought and sold and tax revenue can increase. But biology doesn't need more people. And thus the conflict/concern about birth rates.

Lack of population growth isn't really an issue in capitalism. It's especially an issue in socialism, because it creates a bigger burden on the young to pay for the old. The greater the burden, the worse the quality of life for a young person, which will in turn cause them to leave that country for another where they can be less burdened. But that just puts an even greater burden on the young people staying there. It's a spiraling effect all the way down.

In capitalism, sure you don't get economic growth. But since people are less reliant on other's to pay for them, there's less of a burden on young people, so they continue to create a healthy economy with companies, jobs, investments, etc.

 

[Squarechoke]

If dumb people hand you money would you say no, or take it till they crumble.

It also must have spurred some economic success benefiting the big manufacturing nations mostly.

No, I'm not a hypocrite that reap rewards and then cry about what responsibilities that come with those rewards. Then again I'm capable of creating my own success so I wouldn't have to. It's also very ignorant to try to say that the part that has created great success is the dumb one and the hypocritical freeloader that can't turn its luck around without help is the smart one.

It's beneficial to the EU if Hungary can be built up in a better state, but seeing how they are moving away from the western model and trying to be more like Russia and Turkey I doubt they will manage to be very successful. Then again I should perhaps not state it like it's the entire country, as only a minority of the people have stated negative views on the EU in polls.

 

[Hard To Tell]

The Hungarian people clearly do not want open borders, mass immigration, diversity, multiculturalism, Islam, Africans or any of that. So why should it be forced on them?

But...but...muh GDP...muh aging population...muh tax revenue...muh economic growth...muh diversity. I know some of you may find this nearly impossible to comprehend but some people do care about things other than virtue signalling, money, the interests of big business and mindless consumerism.

 

[MeatheadMike]

Normally I would not agree with this, but given the fact their population is actually going down which is insane given how rare that is anywhere in the world, it might be necessary.

However Orban needs to ask himself why so many people want to leave. Wages are shit in Hungary, just like Romania. Politicians are corrupt on basically every level of government, just like in Romania. A higher population isn't necessarily going to change those things unless they fix their other issues as well.

Actually this is pretty common for most developed countries in the world. For example the birthrate inthe US and UK is around 1.8. Hungary's birthrate is lower (around 1.4) , but comparable to Italy or Germany.

Obviously any birthrate under 2 means the native population is slowly dwindling down and basically the economy is relying on a certain amount of immigration to replace workers as they age out of the workforce.

 

[El Panteron]

"Hungarian population does not want globalism blah blah blah" is inaccurate, Hungarian population is diverse and does not have only ONE opinion. Of course Orbán is getting a shitload of protests.

Plus, Hitler got elected (33% of votes in Germany), does that mean German population was right and foreign powers should not meddle? Hardly so.

What "Hungarian population wants" (again: inaccurate) does not matter towards forming an opinion. Immigration is good for a nation's economy as a whole (not big business. Ffs, EVERYONE) as scientific literature clearly proves, there are humanitarian crysis' going on in Syria and various African nations, Lybian jails (where migrants get locked up if they catch them) are clear violations of human rights.

On the other hand, there is no evidence based, rational reason to close the borders.

That is what should matter in having an opinion, not general consensus.

 

[panamaican]

Lack of population growth isn't really an issue in capitalism. It's especially an issue in socialism, because it creates a bigger burden on the young to pay for the old. The greater the burden, the worse the quality of life for a young person, which will in turn cause them to leave that country for another where they can be less burdened. But that just puts an even greater burden on the young people staying there. It's a spiraling effect all the way down.

In capitalism, sure you don't get economic growth. But since people are less reliant on other's to pay for them, there's less of a burden on young people, so they continue to create a healthy economy with companies, jobs, investments, etc.

It's a problem in our capitalist society because a lot of policy decisions are based on expanded growth and the subsequent taxation of that growth. Share prices driven by the constant need to show increased growth means either more customers or larger margins per customer.

The assumption of more consumers is everywhere in our capitalist society. It's part (just a part) of why overseas growth is so important.

 

[Rod1]

The Hungarian people clearly do not want open borders, mass immigration, diversity, multiculturalism, Islam, Africans or any of that. So why should it be forced on them?

But...but...muh GDP...muh aging population...muh tax revenue...muh economic growth...muh diversity. I know some of you may find this nearly impossible to comprehend but some people do care about things other than virtue signalling, money, the interests of big business and mindless consumerism.

Why not leave the EU if they dont care about such things?

 

[Rod1]

"Hungarian population does not want globalism blah blah blah" is inaccurate, Hungarian population is diverse and does not have only ONE opinion. Of course Orbán is getting a shitload of protests.

Plus, Hitler got elected (33% of votes in Germany), does that mean German population was right and foreign powers should not meddle? Hardly so.

What "Hungarian population wants" (again: inaccurate) does not matter towards forming an opinion. Immigration is good for a nation's economy as a whole (not big business. Ffs, EVERYONE) as scientific literature clearly proves, there are humanitarian crysis' going on in Syria and various African nations, Lybian jails (where migrants get locked up if they catch them) are clear violations of human rights.

On the other hand, there is no evidence based, rational reason to close the borders.

That is what should matter in having an opinion, not general consensus.

Economic migration is different from refugees.

 

[El Panteron]

Not for all shit that really matters e.g. what people do once they get in the country.

 

[xcvbn]

There goes that goddamn socialism again

See how well that worked out in Vezeunella???

 

[El Panteron]

Venezuela is a dictatorship. Stop spamming it like it's fucking socialist Valhalla, I don't like Maduro, I did not like Chavez.

 

[Fronk]

"Hungarian population does not want globalism blah blah blah" is inaccurate, Hungarian population is diverse and does not have only ONE opinion. Of course Orbán is getting a shitload of protests.

Plus, Hitler got elected (33% of votes in Germany), does that mean German population was right and foreign powers should not meddle? Hardly so.

What "Hungarian population wants" (again: inaccurate) does not matter towards forming an opinion. Immigration is good for a nation's economy as a whole (not big business. Ffs, EVERYONE) as scientific literature clearly proves, there are humanitarian crysis' going on in Syria and various African nations, Lybian jails (where migrants get locked up if they catch them) are clear violations of human rights.

On the other hand, there is no evidence based, rational reason to close the borders.

That is what should matter in having an opinion, not general consensus.

"Scientific literature" clearly proves the mass immigration of diametrically culturally other and low skilled sets of groups is good? Even if we are not talking about mass immigration here, immigration of that kind.

On what criteria specifically? Social, or just purely economical? If you can prove that it's socially beneficial I'd be really impressed. Still if we are talking purely economical, I'd like to know how it supposedly benefits EVERYONE.

Can you post the "scientific literature" that proves this please. One condition being a post-industrial nation with high social benefits like most of Europe.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

well you don't fix brain drain by bringing in unskilled, culturally different immigrants...

so it's a point in the right direction, but doesn't address why so many youth are leaving for 'greener' pastures so to speak

 

[xcvbn]

Venezuela is a dictatorship. Stop spamming it like it's fucking socialist Valhalla, I don't like Maduro, I did not like Chavez.

But he calls himself a socialist so he must be!

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

"We need something like this in 'Merca!"

Isn't that basically what welfare/WIC are? <45>

 

[Hard To Tell]

Why not leave the EU if they dont care about such things?

I'm sure that is on the cards.

 

[ChrisCross]

I quite happy for immigration from Christian, Catholic countries but no to Islamic or third world illiterate shitholes and I think Europe would benefit from a bit of Brazilian Bossa Nova and Cuban Son music but not mosques or ghettos in which the 3/4 generation Afro Caribbean youths are killing each other as I'm sure the lads and lasses of the Windrush didn't expect that to happen.

 

[phoenixikki]

I'm sure that is on the cards.

And Brussels would beg them to stay.

 

[Rod1]

I'm sure that is on the cards.

LOL, sure it is friend.

 

[JamesRussler]

Nope, but equal protection is, so if you want to make any policy that boost birth rates it will be available to all citizens. Even non-whites.

I didn’t say anything about race. Why you bringing up race?