International Orban: "We do not need numbers. We need Hungarian children."

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by phoenixikki, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. El Panteron

    El Panteron White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Napoli, Italy
    Thanks.

    Now here are some not strowman questions:
    1. Why are muslim immigrants considered hostile and dangerous?
    2. Why can't feminists decide if they want kids or not? Even if you don't agree with the reason, you can't force kids into they snatch can ya?
    3. Is every immigrant hostile? What about christian ones?
     
  2. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    45,048
    Likes Received:
    30,268
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    Would rather live in a first world country with a lot of immigration than in a third world country that protects its borders.

    And considering how many people Hungary losses due to emigration i see that Hungarians do it too.
     
    Sohei, El Panteron and Kafir-kun like this.
  3. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun not-so-grand mufti of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    29,440
    Likes Received:
    25,393
    Location:
    Democratic People's Islamic Republic of Kekistan
    Of course, even no taxes is not enough of an incentive for someone to live in a shithole like Hungary.
     
  4. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Red Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9,491
    Likes Received:
    14,109
    Location:
    Finland
    European right-wing doesn't have much to do with pro-capitalist/free trade stances. It's an American thing. The capitalist/pro-market/free trade parties in Europe are neo-liberals. Right-wing (or "far-right") has what would be called left-wing economic policy in America (health care, welfare for unemployed/families, free education), while being right-wing when it comes to social issues, morality, gender-bendering, immigration and such.

    Outside of the media constantly portraying right-wingers as Nazis, to discredit their very popular platform, this is pretty much where most rational human beings are at, resistant to left-wing nuttiness while also being resistant to neo-liberal "tax breaks for the rich" economic policy. However the constant Nazi/racist/fascist labeling is a pretty difficult thing to overcome, as pretty much all of the media (owned by the rich) is on board with that, to protect the neo-lib agenda (which is unpopular on its own).

    Hungary was a Communist country only 30 years ago, so socialism is not really out of the ordinary there. Of course, nobody wants the Commie shit to come back (mostly the propaganda brain-washing, secret services, impractical economic policy and dogma), but they are certainly used to the state taking care of certain aspects of welfare.

    Giving tax breaks and welfare assistance to large families is nothing out of the ordinary at all in Europe. Most countries do it. It is considered the mark of a civilized 1st world welfare state, really.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  5. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    45,048
    Likes Received:
    30,268
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    What people also need to realize that its not exclusive of the west to see dropping birth rates, its the product of women education and civil liberties.
     
  6. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    13,587
    Likes Received:
    10,650
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I was more referring to the right wing posters on the forum whom seem to support the move.
     
  7. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Red Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9,491
    Likes Received:
    14,109
    Location:
    Finland
    It is the product of a number of things, and to not try to combat it at all, will lead to a societal collapse. Based on early experiments we can acknowledge that mass immigration has been a failure in propping up demographics, due to the various ill-made side effects that result from that (increased criminality, for one, making people even less willing to reproduce in their now unsafe environments). Trying to incentivize people creating families instead of people working as individuals, will probably be a better option, along with bringing about peace, welfare and stability.

    Right now a lot of people are looking to simplify the problem, to just being a part of a "global thing", so that their own, extremely flawed "resolutions" (propping up mass immigration) will be seen as the only option available, anything else just being seen as a matter of inevitabilities. The European right-wing refuses to believe in such simple explanations, as if this is simply the "destiny" of a people, to accept their eventual disintegration at the hands of "fate". They believe, rather, that starting a family has been made difficult not only economically, but also culturally. Mothers are being looked down upon, and fathers tend to be treated as inter-changeable. In some cases we have come to believe that mothers and fathers do not even exist, and that nuclear families are a thing of the past, in exchange for some loosely identified "global community" where the government takes care of up-bringing.

    This is not the result of progress, but degeneracy. It is a result of people adopting weak patterns of thought, weak behaviour, weak morality, and feeling themselves irresponsible for their actions.

    For example, in my country, the huge decline in birth rates has been directly linked with the evaporation of incomes and employment for young males between 20 to 35 years of age. To say that this cannot be combated domestically, with better policy, is simply a joke. A very bad one, yet one that is often repeated by the ignorant.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  8. Cuauhtemoc

    Cuauhtemoc Pragmatic Technocratic Authoritarian

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,594
    Likes Received:
    6,120
    Yes, it's called National Socialism.
    One of the problems with socialism in the west is that a lot of it is basically about giving stuff to blacks. Affirmative action is basically not going to college so a black person can go to college, for example. That just doesn't happen in homogeneous societies. Sure if you're rich you pay more taxes but your children will not lose a spot in college so Tyrone can get in.
    Companies will not be forced to have diversity hiring quotas because it just makes no sense.
     
    Warlord Palis likes this.
  9. Cuauhtemoc

    Cuauhtemoc Pragmatic Technocratic Authoritarian

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,594
    Likes Received:
    6,120
    That's true but women worked at home. People in general worked at home, a peasant worked in the fields surrounding his house. About extended families it's a good thing and even some western countries like Italy still have that kind of stuff going on. However, African style families are terrible. I was reading a biography:
    https://books.google.com.br/books?i...of+Matthew+N.+O.+Sadiku&source=gbs_navlinks_s
    It's from a somewhat popular professor that writes electrical engineering books. He was an African muslim that converted to Christianity and became an evangelical nutjob in Jesusland(USA). Really.
    But the weird thing is how family worked in Nigeria. Basically his father was a polygamist that had lots of wives and so did his brothers. Their children called all adult men in the community, their real fathers, uncles, older siblings, as Fathers. When one of his uncles died his father married his wife and he became the father of his children. LOL.

    [​IMG]
     
    phoenixikki and Kafir-kun like this.
  10. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    13,587
    Likes Received:
    10,650
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    <{katwhu}>
    lol, excellent troll.
     
  11. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun not-so-grand mufti of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    29,440
    Likes Received:
    25,393
    Location:
    Democratic People's Islamic Republic of Kekistan
    True but the reason women left the home to work is because they had to due to fundamental changes in the economy. And in some cases women did leave for work before then but they could afford to if they lived with their extended family because that extended family could take care of their children. For instance, back in the day some women made a living as petty merchants which required them to travel. Some also worked as domestics in the homes of others as well.
     
    Hunter Simpson, Fronk and Cuauhtemoc like this.
  12. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    45,048
    Likes Received:
    30,268
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    I dont know about Finland but the fact that Norway has declining birth rates is proof that its not about economic scarcity, its about people not wanting to be tied down raising kids as opposed to enjoying life.
     
  13. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Red Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9,491
    Likes Received:
    14,109
    Location:
    Finland
    There are declining birth rates and then there are collapsing birth rates. Finland and Hungary have dealt with collapsing birth rates. These can certainly be corrected with viable policy.

    Anyway, it appears to me that Hungary has corrected their downward projections, so hooray for them:

    [​IMG]

    Finland is still in the muck.

    There are some problems still with Hungary's situation that are detailed here, but to atleast some extent, the policies seem to be working:

    Hungary’s fertility rates are still extremely low: only about 1.5 children per woman. The government is spending huge amounts of money and will probably never reach replacement-rate with this strategy. However, Hungary is experiencing some fertility gains, probably at least partly as a result of a basket of policy changes including tax preferences, cash grants, loan subsidies, constitutional protections, and costly political signaling. But to the extent these policies are working, they are effective because they are not being used in isolation, but rather together as a whole concert of pro-natal policies and cultural nudges. And they are working because they induce marriage, not simply childbearing, and marriage helps boost long-run fertility, not just birth-timing.

    https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-hungary-experiencing-a-policy-induced-baby-boom
     
    Fronk and Kafir-kun like this.
  14. Supaboost

    Supaboost White Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    39
    He's right you know.

    Europe needs europeans not low iq invaders the left wants.
     
    phoenixikki likes this.
  15. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun not-so-grand mufti of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    29,440
    Likes Received:
    25,393
    Location:
    Democratic People's Islamic Republic of Kekistan
    He has a point. Diversity in societies makes it harder to pass and implement progressive policies because the reactionary class can always point to the "Other" in society as the primary beneficiary which makes it harder to convince the working class majority to get behind it. Notice that in all white states in the US like North Dakota you find fairly progressive policies. Why? Because they feel they can relate more to the wretched lower classes because they are more often than not the same race.
    True, modern liberal democratic capitalism has come to encourage a kind of narcissistic consumerism that seems antithetical to starting and raising a family. I guess I'm not really one to lecture you about that since you have a kid and I don't but my two cents anyhow.
     
    Sohei and Fronk like this.
  16. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    13,587
    Likes Received:
    10,650
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    He has a point, just not the point he's actually trying to make?
     
  17. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun not-so-grand mufti of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    29,440
    Likes Received:
    25,393
    Location:
    Democratic People's Islamic Republic of Kekistan
    Its related to his point though. Its harder to pass progressive welfare legislation in diverse societies because racial, sectarian, cultural cleavages can be easily exploited to undermine those efforts. Its an unfortunate reality. Not saying we should forcibly homogenize our societies, if diversity is a reality of a country that should be accepted.
     
    Fronk and Higus like this.
  18. JamesRussler

    JamesRussler You can call me Jimmy

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    6,947
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I see nothing wrong with this idea. TBH, I wish we'd adopt similar policies in the USA for true American Citizens.
     
    uppercutbus and Hognoxious like this.
  19. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun not-so-grand mufti of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    29,440
    Likes Received:
    25,393
    Location:
    Democratic People's Islamic Republic of Kekistan
    Who are true American citizens?
     
    Hunter Simpson and Fronk like this.
  20. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    13,587
    Likes Received:
    10,650
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    At that point, it goes back to my original post: Conservatives are fine with Socialism when its in the service of White Supremacy. Liberals are happy to share the benefits of a progressive policy with other races.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.