Opinion: Islam Makhachev and the Cautionary Tale of Jon Jones

[KO Shotz]

1) P4P list is arbitrary garbage and politics
2) Islam was talking about moving divisions for quite a while if Belal lost.

As I said earlier in a different reply, if Topuria had accepted a #1 contender match earlier and beaten Charles, Gaethje, or any top 5 lightweight, then I genuinely believe Makhachev would have fought him @ UFC 317. Makhachev just didn't believe the hype, which we now know was real.

It's easy to be a Topuria fan and say "I always knew the hype was real". But Makhachev isn't going to take that on faith.

Bruh, Ilia was the fckn FW champion. It would've been a champion vs champion fight.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Bruh, Ilia was the fckn FW champion. It would've been a champion vs champion fight.

Islam vs JDM is [effectively] a champion vs champion fight.

The only reason it's not is because the UFC literally changed their own policy for Topuria.

 

[Alpha_T83]

If Islam wins the belt at 170, it won’t be a stain on his legacy one bit. This is wishful thinking from fans who are desperate for this fight to happen.

Exactly. So much of this depends on winning fights, which is why Islam wasn't ducking.

If Topuria had lost to Charles, no one would be saying Islam ducked Topuria anymore. But the problem is the act of ducking occurs (or does not occur) in the absence of future knowledge (i.e. Topuria beats Charles). Therefore either Islam was ducking Topuria, even if Topuria lost to Charles (asinine stupidity), or he wasn't ducking.

Therefore Islam wasn't ducking.

 

[KO Shotz]

Islam vs JDM is [effectively] a champion vs champion fight.

The only reason it's not is because the UFC literally changed their own policy for Topuria.

You're right. But Ilia vs Islam is a massive fight. Islam vs JDM is not. Once again, apples to oranges.

 

[Alpha_T83]

You're right. But Ilia vs Islam is a massive fight. Islam vs JDM is not. Once again, apples to oranges.

"Massive fight" doesn't mean Islam ducked. It just means Islam's primary concern isn't selling PPVs.

Do I personally wish we had seen Islam vs Topuria? Absolutely. That would be one of the biggest superfights we've seen in the UFC. But that doesn't mean Islam ducked Topuria.

At the end of the day, Islam has to beat JDM. If Islam loses to JDM, then the "Islam ducked Topuria" chants will grow louder than ever. If he beats JDM and makes it look easy, then those chants will quiet down. This story isn't over, but I don't think Islam ducked Topuria, regardless.

 

[KO Shotz]

"Massive fight" doesn't mean Islam ducked. It just means Islam's primary concern isn't selling PPVs.

Do I personally wish we had seen Islam vs Topuria? Absolutely. That would be one of the biggest superfights we've seen in the UFC. But that doesn't mean Islam ducked Topuria.

At the end of the day, Islam has to beat JDM. If Islam loses to JDM, then the "Islam ducked Topuria" chants will grow louder than ever. If he beats JDM and makes it look easy, then those chants will quiet down. This story isn't over, but I don't think Islam ducked Topuria, regardless.

But why move up now? Since Islam has been saying for years that he wants to go up to 170, why when Ilia enters the picture?

I guess we can chalk this up to a "agree to disagree" convo.

 

[moosaev]

You're right. But Ilia vs Islam is a massive fight. Islam vs JDM is not. Once again, apples to oranges.

This is what it really boils down to….you guys are framing it as a duck because you’re desperate to watch the fight lol. If you look at it logically Islam isn’t doing anything ilia isn’t doing and he’s more than earned the right at the next 170 TS. Also, this narrative that Islam could’ve fought Topuria and then fought JDM is BS. There are so many things that could happen from camp to camp…Islam could get injured, something happens to JDM, etc. You take the opportunities that are in front of you, there’s no guarantee they’ll still be there if you delay.

 

[KO Shotz]

This is what it really boils down to….you guys are framing it as a duck because you’re desperate to watch the fight lol. If you look at it logically Islam isn’t doing anything ilia isn’t doing and he’s more than earned the right at the next 170 TS. Also, this narrative that Islam could’ve fought Topuria and then fought JDM is BS. There are so many unknowns…Islam could get injured, hurt, etc. You take the opportunities that are in front of you, there’s no guarantee they’ll still be there if you delay.

I've already gone over this with you like 100 times dude. Islam had two options. Fight Ilia or JDM. He chose to leave his division & to avoid a fight with Ilia. A championship fight would always be there for Islam at 170 afterwards UNLESS he lost to Ilia. Islam didn't want to chance losing an immediate title shot at 170. THAT'S what it boils down too.

 

[Alpha_T83]

But why move up now? Since Islam has been saying for years that he wants to go up to 170, why when Ilia enters the picture?

I guess we can chalk this up to a "agree to disagree" convo.

We can certainly agree to disagree.

The answer to "Why now?" Is because Belal lost and 170 was open. I genuinely believe Islam would have fought Topuria had Belal won, but sadly we can never truly know whether that's true or not.

 

[moosaev]

I've already gone over this with you like 100 times dude. Islam had two options. Fight Ilia or JDM. He chose to leave his division & to avoid a fight with Ilia. A championship fight would always be there for Islam at 170 afterwards UNLESS he lost to Ilia. Islam didn't want to chance losing an immediate title shot at 170. THAT'S what it boils down too.

Again, you’re framing it as him “avoiding ilia” when he’s been chasing that 170 TS opportunity way before ilia was even a thing. Did he have a Time Machine and start setting up this duck 2 years ago lol?

Also…”a championship fight will always be there”……absolutely not lol. 170 is the deepest division in the UFC with at least 4 killers worthy of a title shot. There is no guarantee the opportunity will be there for Islam in the future if he doesn’t take it now, it’s there on the table right now for him to take and he’d be a fool not to take it.

 

[KO Shotz]

We can certainly agree to disagree.

The answer to "Why now?" Is because Belal lost and 170 was open. I genuinely believe Islam would have fought Topuria had Belal won, but sadly we can never truly know whether that's true or not.

Islam was saying that Ilia needed to fight someone else no matter if Belal retained his WW strap or not.

 

[KO Shotz]

Again, you’re framing it as him “avoiding ilia” when he’s been chasing that 170 TS opportunity way before ilia was even a thing. Did he have a Time Machine and start setting up this duck 2 years ago lol?

Also…”a championship fight will always be there”……absolutely not lol. 170 is the deepest division in the UFC with at least 4 killers worthy of a title shot. There is no guarantee the opportunity will be there for Islam in the future if he doesn’t take it now, it’s there on the table right now for him to take and he’d be a fool not to take it.

I'm not framing anything I'm just calling it how I see it & avoiding Ilia is exactly what it looks like Islam is doing. & yes an immediate title shot at 170 would always be there for Islam especially if he fought & beat Ilia. I mean the WW division is stacked right now but Islam is being allowed to jump the line. So yes, no matter how many contenders there is Islam would always be given an immediate title shot just like he is now.