Social National Parks facing massive crisis

[jrams]

You ever been to Devil's Tower? I think that has been my favorite hike so far.

Never spent any meaningful time in Wyoming. Although currently looking at houses in Montana for a get away place, so would be a lot easier. Doing Patagonia in the winter and may try to swing by the Smokey Mountains first before then.

 

[emefer]

I remember when National parks were free (or close to free) and first-come first serve.

Now you have to buy about a half-dozen expensive passes--usually requiring an hour of research to make sure you have the right pass for the right place, AND you often have make reservations.

And they wonder why only privileged people are visiting???

If the parks were ran the same way they were today when I was a kid, my busy lower-middle class parents wouldn't have ever bothered to take us.

I did a trip like twenty years ago and hit every park along the way.
We had a National park pass. You can get one for 80 bucks that’s good for a year or a lifetime if you’re over 62.

 

[jk7707]

I remember when National parks were free (or close to free) and first-come first serve.

Now you have to buy about a half-dozen expensive passes--usually requiring an hour of research to make sure you have the right pass for the right place, AND you often have make reservations.

And they wonder why only privileged people are visiting???

If the parks were ran the same way they were today when I was a kid, my busy lower-middle class parents wouldn't have ever bothered to take us.

Many still have first come first serve camping and only a few require a "timed pass" to get in. But all of it is the result of a huge boom in their popularity, and the lack of funding from Congress to keep up with it. Park visitation is up 20% over the last decade and the National Park Service has lost somewhere around 15% of it's staffing over the same period. The infrastructure backlog is MASSIVE and the pay and living conditions for rangers frankly, sucks. I feel like people in this country would be cool with literally doubling the budget of the NPS considering how popular the parks are (3.5 billion to 7) and many of these problems would disappear.

 

[Deorum]

The lower 48's first dozen established NPs:

1872: Yellowstone (Wyoming)
1890: Sequioa (California)
1890: Yosemite (California)
1899: Mount Rainier (Washington)
1902: Crater Lake (Oregon)
1903: Wind Cave (South Dakota)
1906: Mesa Verde (Colorado)
1910: Glacier (Montana)
1915: Rocky Mountain (Colorado)
1916: Lassen Volcanic (California)
1919: Grand Canyon (Arizona)
1919: Acadia (Maine)

The last dozen:

1994: Death Valley (California)
1994: Joshua Tree (California)
1994: Saguaro (Arizona)
1999: Black Canyon (Colorado)
2000: Cuyahoga (Ohio)
2003: Congaree (South Carolina)
2004: Great Sand Dunes (Colorado)
2013: Pinnacles (California)
2018: Gateway Arch (Missouri)
2019: White Sands (New Mexico)
2019: Indiana Dunes (Indiana)
2020: Three Gorges (West Virginia)



Death Valley is a GOAT contender as far as I'm concerned, with GOAT level night skies for galaxy gazing; the lowest elevation on the continent 282 feet below sea level and hottest location on earth, arguably the most extreme place on the entire planet. It's got badlands, canyons, craters, sand dunes, salt flats, hills, strenuous hiking trails, mountains, lookout points, and peaks galore. It was stupidly stuck on national monument status since 1933 for whatever reasons.

And then Congress should've stopped there with its establishment on Halloween 1994. California and Colorado did not need an additional two NPs a piece beyond that; the real Three Gorges is in China, breh; Oh, "new river gorges", yeah whatever. The Indiana Dunes sit next to a fucking power plant and steel mill; the Congo thing is an average floodplain. And hell, why not designate the longest standing McDonalds arches in the country a National Park while they're at it? Very American.

 

[Scerpi]

I remember when National parks were free (or close to free) and first-come first serve.

Now you have to buy about a half-dozen expensive passes--usually requiring an hour of research to make sure you have the right pass for the right place, AND you often have make reservations.

And they wonder why only privileged people are visiting???

If the parks were ran the same way they were today when I was a kid, my busy lower-middle class parents wouldn't have ever bothered to take us.

The ability to make reservations is a positive.

Can't tell you how many times my dad or mom had to drive around in Colorado on a weekend looking for an open camping spot because we ran late to get there.... Only to find a super shitty one that no one wanted.

Its on par with being able to pick out a movie seat in advance and not have to show up to an opening night show 2 hours in advance so you don't end having to sit in the front row.

And fuck off with the privldege crap. They've always charged for National Park Camping Spots, at least the places we went to in Colorado... and this is going back to the 70's.

However, there were a lot more places to camp back then that weren't specially designated. We went to Utah and Wyoming several times to locations there weren't specifically camping sites and just plopped a tent down. Often there was super rough 4x4 trails to the get there or long hikes involved. Actually.... Had this mini-camper that could be towed on the shittest trails. It was hilariously small, but slept two people, had a kitchen and tiny bathroom.

Looked like this.

Fucker was bombproof and was perfect for what we needed. Never used power in it... just hooked up propane to cook with. We didn't care about these 40'+ long, 5th Wheel Pig Camper Trailers which are basically mobile Double Tree Inns. Embarrassing.

In Montana, Utah and Wyoming... There's stil places you can drag a camper like this to very remote places and camp out. And not see people for days. Unfortunately, Colorado isn't like that anymore... it's overrun.

But if you wanted a place with amentities... IE - Water pump, power, bathrooms (sometimes showers), etc... They've always charged for those.

 

[Deorum]

Looked like this.

Fucker was bombproof and was perfect for what we needed. Never used power in it... just hooked up propane to cook with. We didn't care about these 40'+ long, 5th Wheel Pig Camper Trailers which are basically mobile Double Tree Inns. Embarrassing.

In Montana, Utah and Wyoming... There's stil places you can drag a camper like this to very remote places and camp out. And not see people for days. Unfortunately, Colorado isn't like that anymore... it's overrun.

But if you wanted a place with amentities... IE - Water pump, power, bathrooms (sometimes showers), etc... They've always charged for those.

Fucking Legendary. <45>

A marvel of engineering, testament to the innovation of man.

 

[Deorum]

80 bucks for an annual pass to every national park is a fucking absolute steal, especially when the charge is Per Vehicle. It covers not only the pass owner but all of the occupants brought with them.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

The ability to make reservations is a positive.

Can't tell you how many times my dad or mom had to drive around in Colorado on a weekend looking for an open camping spot because we ran late to get there.... Only to find a super shitty one that no one wanted.

Its on par with being able to pick out a movie seat in advance and not have to show up to an opening night show 2 hours in advance so you don't end having to sit in the front row.

And fuck off with the privldege crap. They've always charged for National Park Camping Spots, at least the places we went to in Colorado... and this is going back to the 70's.

However, there were a lot more places to camp back then that weren't specially designated. We went to Utah and Wyoming several times to locations there weren't specifically camping sites and just plopped a tent down. Often there was super rough 4x4 trails to the get there or long hikes involved. Actually.... Had this mini-camper that could be towed on the shittest trails. It was hilariously small, but slept two people, had a kitchen and tiny bathroom.

Looked like this.

Fucker was bombproof and was perfect for what we needed. Never used power in it... just hooked up propane to cook with. We didn't care about these 40'+ long, 5th Wheel Pig Camper Trailers which are basically mobile Double Tree Inns. Embarrassing.

In Montana, Utah and Wyoming... There's stil places you can drag a camper like this to very remote places and camp out. And not see people for days. Unfortunately, Colorado isn't like that anymore... it's overrun.

But if you wanted a place with amentities... IE - Water pump, power, bathrooms (sometimes showers), etc... They've always charged for those.

I need one!

 

[Deorum]

I'm gonna need someone to take care of the house while I'm cruisin' around the greatest country in the world in 4 years.

You can trek barefoot across Devil's Golf Course. But even in boots, that's a sprained or broken ankle waiting to happen. It isn't a pile of rocks; they are sharp, jagged salt crystals left behind as the remnants from ancient Lake Manly, which was gradually eaten alive (evaporated). You can hear them cracking as they expand and contract under the sun.

 

[Scerpi]

I need one!

Dude... the little fucker was badass. Could go almost anywhere my Jeep could go. I didn't care about power, just somewhere to cook and sleep.

Shit inside got shook up a couple times like a soda can, despite my attempts properly secure everything as best as possible...

 

[Scerpi]

Fucking Legendary. <45>

A marvel of engineering, testament to the innovation of man.

They were almost indestructable. I think the one we had was even a little smaller than this.

Meanwhile... one of our friends is trying to drag this pig around...

Going maybe 30 MPH up the passes... probably less. Getting hung up on shit on the trails and then taking 2 hours to set it up. Then what? Going to spend all your time inside?

lol... Dude, why? We're just camping out for a couple nights? Doing some shooting, hiking and some fishing. Just need a place to crash. (Hint - It was his wife... lol) Being single back then was the best.

Good fucking lord.

 

[Deorum]

I'm gonna need someone to take care of the house while I'm cruisin' around the greatest country in the world in 4 years.

You can trek barefoot across Devil's Golf Course. But even in boots, that's a sprained or broken ankle waiting to happen. It isn't a pile of rocks; they are sharp, jagged salt crystals left behind as the remnants from ancient Lake Manly, which was gradually eaten alive (evaporated). You can hear them cracking as they expand and contract under the sun.

Holy shit, image hosting is a joke. Wtf is that about, the first link was already completely taken down. Don't Compress & Resize my files, fa99ot. My bad, superking.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Holy shit, image hosting is a joke. Wtf is that about, the first link was already completely taken down. Don't Compress & Resize my files, fa99ot. My bad, superking.

No sweat, brah. I'm loving all the pics you're putting in this thread. Good to have you back!

 

[mb23100]

80 bucks for an annual pass to every national park is a fucking absolute steal, especially when the charge is Per Vehicle. It covers not only the pass owner but all of the occupants brought with them.

It's an absolute no brainer. It also gets you into anything "National" for example Lake Mead in Nevada because it's a National Recreation Area and Red Rock Canyon outside Vegas which is a National Conservation area.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Dude... the little fucker was badass. Could go almost anywhere my Jeep could go. I didn't care about power, just somewhere to cook and sleep.

Shit inside got shook up a couple times like a soda can, despite my attempts properly secure everything as best as possible...

That’s exactly what I am looking for man. Just hook it up and go. I’m low maintenance, so propane for cooking works.

 

[Scerpi]

That’s exactly what I am looking for man. Just hook it up and go. I’m low maintenance, so propane for cooking works.

Hope you can find one. It was in the late 90's when I had that one. That large propane tank on front was firmly attached too.

I'd love to find one now too. Camping on the beach in Texas is legal and free ($20 annual pass). A little camper like that would be perfect. I've seen bigger ones get stuck in the sand and have to get tow trucks to get them out.

 

[jk7707]

The lower 48's first dozen established NPs:

1872: Yellowstone (Wyoming)
1890: Sequioa (California)
1890: Yosemite (California)
1899: Mount Rainier (Washington)
1902: Crater Lake (Oregon)
1903: Wind Cave (South Dakota)
1906: Mesa Verde (Colorado)
1910: Glacier (Montana)
1915: Rocky Mountain (Colorado)
1916: Lassen Volcanic (California)
1919: Grand Canyon (Arizona)
1919: Acadia (Maine)

The last dozen:

1994: Death Valley (California)
1994: Joshua Tree (California)
1994: Saguaro (Arizona)
1999: Black Canyon (Colorado)
2000: Cuyahoga (Ohio)
2003: Congaree (South Carolina)
2004: Great Sand Dunes (Colorado)
2013: Pinnacles (California)
2018: Gateway Arch (Missouri)
2019: White Sands (New Mexico)
2019: Indiana Dunes (Indiana)
2020: Three Gorges (West Virginia)



Death Valley is a GOAT contender as far as I'm concerned, with GOAT level night skies for galaxy gazing; the lowest elevation on the continent 282 feet below sea level and hottest location on earth, arguably the most extreme place on the entire planet. It's got badlands, canyons, craters, sand dunes, salt flats, hills, strenuous hiking trails, mountains, lookout points, and peaks galore. It was stupidly stuck on national monument status since 1933 for whatever reasons.

And then Congress should've stopped there with its establishment on Halloween 1994. California and Colorado did not need an additional two NPs a piece beyond that; the real Three Gorges is in China, breh; Oh, "new river gorges", yeah whatever. The Indiana Dunes sit next to a fucking power plant and steel mill; the Congo thing is an average floodplain. And hell, why not designate the longest standing McDonalds arches in the country a National Park while they're at it? Very American.

They are exceptional for what they represent in this country. New River Gorge is an amazing place. Truly spectacular, especially in the autumn, and a premiere whitewater rafting destination. You ever been to Joshua Tree or the Great Sand Dunes? They are pretty damned exceptional too. I could go on, but I'll admit, I'm biased.

 

[Track Jipper]

They are exceptional for what they represent in this country. New River Gorge is an amazing place. Truly spectacular, especially in the autumn, and a premiere whitewater rafting destination. You ever been to Joshua Tree or the Great Sand Dunes? They are pretty damned exceptional too. I could go on, but I'll admit, I'm biased.

Yeah I don't understand why it's such a bad thing to protect these lands. So what if they're not Yosemite or Glacier, they're all amazing in they're own right. Indiana Dunes is the only one that was kinda silly...should've been Sleeping Bear Dunes instead. And White Sands is damn incredible

 

[jk7707]

Yeah I don't understand why it's such a bad thing to protect these lands. So what if they're not Yosemite or Glacier, they're all amazing in they're own right. Indiana Dunes is the only one that was kinda silly...should've been Sleeping Bear Dunes instead. And White Sands is damn incredible

I agree with the Indiana dunes one. Somebody with some serious political connections had to have been pushing hard for that redesignation.

 

[Deorum]

Yeah I don't understand why it's such a bad thing to protect these lands. So what if they're not Yosemite or Glacier, they're all amazing in they're own right. Indiana Dunes is the only one that was kinda silly...should've been Sleeping Bear Dunes instead. And White Sands is damn incredible

So why not just designate - or leave them - as national monuments? They'd still be federally protected and preserved under the purview of @jk7707 and the rest of the fine folks at the NPS. I don't have anything against those places - and my post was flippant - I do have extremely high standards and am something of a minimalist. I just feel like the highest ranking should be reserved precisely for places on the level of Yellowstone, Yosemite, Sequioa, Grand Canyon. Glacier is also up there but is unfortunately rapidly losing the feature that gave its namesake.