Social Trump cracks down on homelessness with executive order enabling local governments

[N13]

The primary reason is lack of access to affordable housing, everything else is secondary. Hence the problem is hard to solve, many folks and municipalities have an interest in reducing supply of housing in the short term.

Another reason is that elites don't care about them. It takes compassion.

 

[Kingz]

Just so I understand you clearly, your suggestion is to permanently house these people in institutional settings because "that's where they belong"? What evidence do you have that rehabilitation is not effective?

Don’t know where you got permanently from. I didn’t say or even hint at that.

I clearly said not simply for the sake of stowing them away which means I am talking about real mental hospitals, with real doctors and nurses with the real goal of treating patients and making them better with the ultimate goal of discharge

Maybe you got “permanently” from my admittedly unhopeful for the success of said treatment wording.

It is where many of them belong. Does that somehow sound worse or more inhumane to you than on a diseased heap of trash outside? There’s few things I can think of that is more inhumane than what I see everyday here.

I also didn’t say anything to the effectiveness or lack thereof of drug rehabilitation itself. I said it’s not been an effective tool of diversion for the homeless problem.

The proof is in the result. Drug rehabs have been the standard go to for politicians and programs trying to address the homeless for years now.

I just think it’s common sense that it only works for those that want it and rehab treatment centers can only deal with somebody who doesn’t want to get better for a few days before they have to wash their hands of them. Lest they fuck up the progress of the people that want to clean up.

It’s a healthy process of deduction for a lifelong California resident who hears how nobody ever wants to do anything or even tries to do anything about the homeless problem here, but knows that isn’t true. They have. They just failed.

That’s coming from somebody who isn’t eager to ascribe good intentions or effort to the average California politician as well.

They fail because they continuously think it’s overwhelmingly a drug and poverty problem that can be solved by detox, a sponsor, a stipend and shelter. It’s not. They eventually need to tackle the mental derangement aspect which is really the biggest battle.

I am a proponent of the state and federal asylum making a major comeback.

I realize they aren’t here yet as I mentioned in my original post and this will require legislation and funding.

This EO will only lead to rural areas being able to shoo away their homeless populations more easily, and help urban centers tear down business crushing tent cities quicker. But nobody is going to get swept up because there is nowhere to put them.

 

[avenue94]

Another reason is that elites don't care about them. It takes compassion.

That's part of it, but it's not just elites. It's a widespread failure of society. Local citizens have a bad tendency of fighting tooth a nail against approving housing or homeless shelters.

Honestly at this point the biggest hurdles are just average citizens, the money is mostly there (depending on the state), but you can't magic housing into place.

 

[avenue94]

Don’t know where you got permanently from. I didn’t say or even hint at that.

I clearly said not simply for the sake of stowing them away which means I am talking about real mental hospitals, with real doctors and nurses with the real goal of treating patients and making them better with the ultimate goal of discharge

Maybe you got “permanently” from my admittedly unhopeful for the success of said treatment wording.

It is where many of them belong. Does that somehow sound worse or more inhumane to you than on a diseased heap of trash outside?

I also didn’t say anything to the effectiveness or lack thereof of drug rehabilitation itself. I said it’s not been an effective tool of diversion for the homeless problem.

The proof is in the result. Drug rehabs have been the standard go to for politicians and programs trying to address the homeless for years now.

I just think it’s common sense that it only works for those that want it and rehab treatment centers can only deal with somebody who doesn’t want to get better for a few days before they have to wash their hands of them. Lest they fuck up the progress of the people that want to clean up.

It’s a healthy process of deduction for a lifelong California resident who hears how nobody ever wants to do anything or even tries to do anything about the homeless problem here, but knows that isn’t true. They have. They just failed.

That’s coming from somebody who isn’t eager to ascribe good intentions or effort to the average California politician as well.

They fail because they continuously think it’s overwhelmingly a drug and poverty problem that can be solved by detox, a sponsor, a stipend and shelter. It’s not. They eventually need to tackle the mental derangement aspect which is really the biggest battle.

I am a proponent of the state and federal asylum making a major comeback.

I realize they aren’t here yet as I mentioned in my original post and this will require legislation and funding.

This EO will only lead to rural areas being able to shoo away their homeless populations more easily, and help urban centers tear down business crushing tent cities quicker. But nobody is going to get swept up because there is nowhere to put them.

It's a housing problem more than anything else, hence California has failed to solve this issue. Mental health and drugs are far behind in the causes. Not to mention getting people into treatment for either is much easier when they have stable housing.

 

[N13]

That's part of it, but it's not just elites. It's a widespread failure of society. Local citizens have a bad tendency of fighting tooth a nail against approving housing or homeless shelters.

Honestly at this point the biggest hurdles are just average citizens, the money is mostly there (depending on the state), but you can't magic housing into place.

There's also an economic cause regarding jobs. Many are just one paycheck away from eviction. Then we had the covid lock-downs which shut down many small businesses.

There is also a mental health aspect where these people develop things like depression. Untreated, it can lead to self medication with street drugs.

 

[N13]

@avenue94

You are right about housing. What do these people need at the core: a roof over their heads and food on the table plus some form of transportation. Access to health care, physical and mental, is essential for prevention.

 

[avenue94]

There's also an economic cause regarding jobs. Many are just one paycheck away from eviction. Then we had the covid lock-downs which shut down many small businesses.

There is also a mental health aspect where these people develop things like depression. Untreated, it can lead to self medication with street drugs.

Yeah, jobs/income and housing costs are two sides of the same coin.

From the government's perspective at least, it's much easier to build lots of housing than it is to make wages go up (not mutually exclusive obviously).

 

[N13]

Yeah, jobs/income and housing costs are two sides of the same coin.

From the government's perspective at least, it's much easier to build lots of housing than it is to make wages go up (not mutually exclusive obviously).

The government can subsidize the housing as a means to increase wages in another way.

Job training programs would help a ton. There are lots of blue collar jobs in demand. Don't give a man a fish, teach him how to catch a fish.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

Don’t know where you got permanently from. I didn’t say or even hint at that.

I clearly said not simply for the sake of stowing them away which means I am talking about real mental hospitals, with real doctors and nurses with the real goal of treating patients and making them better with the ultimate goal of discharge

Maybe you got “permanently” from my admittedly unhopeful for the success of said treatment wording.

It is where many of them belong. Does that somehow sound worse or more inhumane to you than on a diseased heap of trash outside? There’s few things I can think of that is more inhumane than what I see everyday here.

I also didn’t say anything to the effectiveness or lack thereof of drug rehabilitation itself. I said it’s not been an effective tool of diversion for the homeless problem.

The proof is in the result. Drug rehabs have been the standard go to for politicians and programs trying to address the homeless for years now.

I just think it’s common sense that it only works for those that want it and rehab treatment centers can only deal with somebody who doesn’t want to get better for a few days before they have to wash their hands of them. Lest they fuck up the progress of the people that want to clean up.

It’s a healthy process of deduction for a lifelong California resident who hears how nobody ever wants to do anything or even tries to do anything about the homeless problem here, but knows that isn’t true. They have. They just failed.

That’s coming from somebody who isn’t eager to ascribe good intentions or effort to the average California politician as well.

They fail because they continuously think it’s overwhelmingly a drug and poverty problem that can be solved by detox, a sponsor, a stipend and shelter. It’s not. They eventually need to tackle the mental derangement aspect which is really the biggest battle.

I am a proponent of the state and federal asylum making a major comeback.

I realize they aren’t here yet as I mentioned in my original post and this will require legislation and funding.

This EO will only lead to rural areas being able to shoo away their homeless populations more easily, and help urban centers tear down business crushing tent cities quicker. But nobody is going to get swept up because there is nowhere to put them.

I genuinely appreciate your response - I misinterpreted your position.

I think when I hear the term asylum/institution, I associate it with something decrepit with insufficient medical and mental health care support. I would be highly supportive of people being placed in places where they receive compassionate long term care.

 

[avenue94]

The government can subsidize the housing as a means to increase wages in another way.

Job training programs would help a ton. There are lots of blue collar jobs in demand. Don't give a man a fish, teach him how to catch a fish.

It can to some extent, but it's really risky to do that. It adds too much inefficiency and distorts the market. Or in practical terms, you're going the way of the Great Recession. Better to just build more housing than try to offer money to existing homeowners, renters or potential people trying to.

 

[N13]

It can to some extent, but it's really risky to do that. It adds too much inefficiency and distorts the market. Or in practical terms, you're going the way of the Great Recession. Better to just build more housing than try to offer money to existing homeowners, renters or potential people trying to.

I think about it this way: if you do the job training, then these people enter the work force. Welders are in high demand and the average salary is $40-50k, for instance. The formerly homeless person essentially pays for their subsidy through the taxes they pay on that income. It's a win win for everyone.

Even if it only works for 10% of the homeless, it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Cartiac]

Hmm, interesting. I haven't looked into this much yet, but is it possible that this could be something Trump and Newsom agree on?

I seem to remember Newsom talking about the need to actually start taking serious action to reduce homelessness instead of continuing to fuel and expand the industry of "helping" the homeless.

 

[N13]

Hmm, interesting. I haven't looked into this much yet, but is it possible that this could be something Trump and Newsom agree on?

I seem to remember Newsom talking about the need to actually start taking serious action to reduce homelessness instead of continuing to fuel and expand the industry of "helping" the homeless.

It would be so nice to see a bipartisan effort. But it takes more than money. California has spent a boatload of cash to reduce it, but it has only gotten worse.

Probably best to have the funding at the federal level to prevent fraud (doge it and use the blockchain) with direct oversight. The states get the financial support they need and the power to develop programs that fit their situation.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

It's a boondoggle, that's for sure. The tent cities are definitely out of control, but fines and jackboots kicking their shit down won't do much, and people don't want to pay for for their needs.

No easy answers here.

- The common answer is ofering social services, like a shelter, employment.
The problem is we have that here, and the homeles number only increases. Housing isnt afordable here in Florianópolis thought

 

[ShadowRun]

 

[SandisLL]

exactly - I am asking that question. The answer can't be "to a sufficiently funded and supported long term mental health institution" because those do not exist. So, where ARE these people gonna be sent?

HMMMMM....

I think Trump might offer zelensky to accept all these plus mentally ill etc too. Why not? minerals memorandum he already does have, maybe next step will : next memorandum and then might send ppl to ukr, zelensky might grant them ukr citizenship maybe....