More fighters should tell the doctor/referee they can't continue after a severe eyepoke

[Hassan Mouzine]

there is no way to prove if a knee to a downed opponent or an eyepoke was intentional or not. We cannot look into a person's mind and read their 'intention', we are not psychics. We can only observe their actions and MAYBE derive what their intention was, but even then it's a guess. It is the responsibility of each fighter to adhere to the rules, it doesnt matter what intentions they have. The only intention that they should have is to actively fight and defend themselves and obey the rules.

And come on...........it is not like fighters are pointing their eyes to finger tips and it happened 'unintentional'. Some fighters try to 'hand fight' and do so by pointing their fingers forward, instead of upward or a closed fist. Even if they say it's 'unintentional', they take a risk for it happening. I can drink a shitload of vodka and drive my car and have zero intention to collide with a pedestrian, but if it happens it is still my fault. Intentions only matter if your action reflects the intention. Pointing 5 finger towards someone's eyes is never unintentional.

But it shouldnt matter......a foul is a foul and a severe one should warrant severe action by the referee.

 

[bjjwar]

No point deduction, its an immediate dq loss for the one that cheated. Eye pokes arent random, everyone knows exactly how to avoid doing them, but they leave their fingers all stretched out on purpose. Its a blatant cheating tehnique that is trained in some mma gyms.

 

[Lee Danger]

there is no way to prove if a knee to a downed opponent or an eyepoke was intentional or not.

WTF are you talking about?

A knee to a downed opponent is more often than not intentional (unless the "downed" one is still on his feet before the strike starts and at that point it's just not a foul): how can you hit a downed opponent by mistake (the only mistake is forgetting the rule)?
A groin strike is also common because more often than not unintentional: it's easy to foul with a knee during the clinch and it's more easier to foul while landing a inside leg kick...

Even pokes are not always equal: Jones and DC forward fingers' ones are the textbook "intentional" ones, is it that hard to look at the single cases or is it just easy now to generalize because your favorite fighter is embarassing himself right now?



Common sense guys, you all look like fan(atics) right now: you're thinking abstractly and generalizing, and you don't even realize how many things you're mixing together without thinking about it first.

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

WTF are you talking about?

A knee to a downed opponent is more often than not intentional (unless the "downed" one is still on his feet before the strike starts and at that point it's just not a foul): how can you hit a downed opponent by mistake (the only mistake is forgetting the rule)?
A groin strike is also common because more often than not unintentional: it's easy to foul with a knee during the clinch and it's more easier to foul while landing a inside leg kick...

Even pokes are not always equal: Jones and DC forward fingers' ones are the textbook "intentional" ones, is it that hard to look at the single cases or is it just easy now to generalize because your favorite fighter is embarassing himself right now?

Common sense guys, you all look like fan(atics) right now.

so when the downed opponet just put his knee on the ground or was just getting up and and at that exact moment the knee lands on the face, intentional or not? Like I said: impossible to prove. We cannot look inside people's minds. It is totally believable that when a knee is thrown the fighter 'thought/intended' to connect the knee while the opponent did not have contact with the floor with a different part than feet. we have seen this many times before. sometimes slow-motion rewind had to be seen by commentators to check what happened.......how can a fighter decide in real time? there is no way to say if it was intentional or not, only what happened. thus the actual fact of it happeneing and the taking a risk of it happening is what matters, not the intention

It shouldn't matter anyway what intentions are, they can be denied and debated and that is not what you want.....

the person that throws knees is taking some sort of risk of it landing while the other fighter is or isn't making contact with the floor. same goes with eye pokes.......the person that throws their fingers in the air is taking the risk of a foul happening

The rule should be: no eyepokes
and not: no intentional eyepokes

the rule should be: no knees/leg strike to a downed opponent:
and not: no intentional knees/leg strikes to a downed opponent

by the way, I have no idea what the actual rules stipulate literally, I'm only saying that intention should not be mentioned in regulations. Breaking a rule by taking the risk, is breaking a rule.

 

[orca]

aspinal the only fighter who doesnt wanna fight

and your dragging others who wanted to fight
not to fight
pretty sure they are complaining and given time to recover
if they feel they cant continue then they wont

if they feel they can then they continue
not all fighters are like aspinal
not all are built the same

 

[Thy]

 

[tasticles]

The ref had the ability to make that determination but he didn't, he said the poke was unintentional. We have fans trying to determine intent from slowed down video footage when none of us know what Gane was thinking in that moment.

I cant speak for eye pokes, but you almost have to try to kick someone in the balls unless they are turning into an inside leg kick. I think most of these fouls are intentional as hell.

 

[Hotora86]

Jim Miller rages at UFC's 'culture' of unaccountability with eye-pokes after Tom Aspinall fiasco

The UFC's longest-tenured active fighter strongly believes something needs to change within the UFC itself, rather than with the rules or the gloves.

sports.yahoo.com

"In the UFC, we don't kick each other to the head when the opponent is on the ground because we lose, because they have a very good track record of penalizing people that do so,” Miller said. “I believe that if we brought in fines [for eye-pokes] — the warning is in the back. If you're going to take my money away, I'm going to make sure that my hands are closed when I'm reaching out. I'm going to make sure that I don't poke somebody in the eye. But they're not really penalizing people. The thing is, a lot of the time, when somebody gets poked in the eye, their chances of victory are super slim."

 

[markg171]

There's nothing indicating this was a severe eyepoke though.

 

[Fedorgasm]

They DID do new gloves, remember? Didn't do shit. More new gloves won't do shit either. The problem isn't the gloves, it's the fighters who eye poke constantly because they're not incentivized to change their behaviors

Yeah but the gloves they tried were stupid.

They need gloves that cover the fingertips like a mitten. You don't need your fingers to be separate unless you're poking eyeballs.

Something like these bag gloves, except remove the covering from the palm to make grabbing a wrist easier.

 

[Hymen Crusher]

Its not complicated. Just take a point every time. It will basically go away. Its not a refs job to figure intent out. The NFL changed the leading with the head rule on tackling after a 100 years. 100 years of it and its almost completely out of the league after 2 maybe 3 seasons. Its not hard 15 yard penalties solved it. Same would happen with eye pokes. If you cant control it you wont have a job. You cant play the sport oh well

 

[Slapjit]

In my humble observation ji Slap Dangal they are having the most effective fouling system of all combat sport

Regardless your performance and intention if you are committing clubbing or stepping foul bas ji you receive 10-8 as punishment. If also you are getting good banging in return haanji it becomes 10-7 double dukh for same paap

This is both motivation and deterrent haanji. For the victim it becomes a chance to pull bootstraps and earn victory with honor . For the fouler party they know points gone like spilled lassi so they must seek finish with full jazba

Then maybe you are asking what about ball-shot or vulva-shot I say that one maybe they treat as flinching since usually it is unintentional. Moderator ji does not like when I mention fighter receive thappad to groin or face both so maybe they instead give disadvantage position. For instance north south or back hugging. Then 10-8 round then DQ following haanji

 

[Jojofan]

I don't think you understand what the UFC is trying to tip toe around when it comes to fouls. If they become too strict on fouls it becomes something that fighters can exploit by pretending to be hit by a foul (they would essentially start flopping and nobody wants that). If they are too lenient on it than dirty fighters get an edge on the opponents that are trying to play within the rules. They key is striking some sort of balance.

 

[Mammothman]

Fuck that, that would ruin the sport.

It gave us more situations like the ones with Aljo, Weidman and now Tom.

Dana and we fans won't be happy about that.

 

[tymikeson]

Jimm Miller made a good point - Hes had 43 UFC fights and not once did he eye poke anyone.

its not the gloves or unintentional, its the bitch that pokes the person in the eyes to try and comprimise the other opponent.

 

[Mikeydontgiva]

More fighters should tell the doctor/referee they can't continue after a severe eyepoke.....


And when they do, the solution to eyepokes will come overnight.


long past due.​

 

[Captain Herb]

The ref had the ability to make that determination but he didn't, he said the poke was unintentional.

Did he use video replay? If he had, he would've had a different opinion.

 

[Captain Herb]

I don't think you understand what the UFC is trying to tip toe around when it comes to fouls. If they become too strict on fouls it becomes something that fighters can exploit by pretending to be hit by a foul (they would essentially start flopping and nobody wants that). If they are too lenient on it than dirty fighters get an edge on the opponents that are trying to play within the rules. They key is striking some sort of balance.

Video replay.

 

[tigersmoosh]

In my humble observation ji Slap Dangal they are having the most effective fouling system of all combat sport

Regardless your performance and intention if you are committing clubbing or stepping foul bas ji you receive 10-8 as punishment. If also you are getting good banging in return haanji it becomes 10-7 double dukh for same paap

This is both motivation and deterrent haanji. For the victim it becomes a chance to pull bootstraps and earn victory with honor . For the fouler party they know points gone like spilled lassi so they must seek finish with full jazba

Then maybe you are asking what about ball-shot or vulva-shot I say that one maybe they treat as flinching since usually it is unintentional. Moderator ji does not like when I mention fighter receive thappad to groin or face both so maybe they instead give disadvantage position. For instance north south or back hugging. Then 10-8 round then DQ following haanji

solution to eye poke: pause the match, fighters stand in the middle of the ring, and the fighter who was fouled gets to do a powerslap on the fouler. then the match resumes as normal.

Jimm Miller made a good point - Hes had 43 UFC fights and not once did he eye poke anyone.

its not the gloves or unintentional, its the bitch that pokes the person in the eyes to try and comprimise the other opponent.

jim miller is a poor fighter so he wouldn't know much about this

 

[CJrider]

If every fighter just quit and looked for a NC or DQ any chance they could get, most of us would just stop tuning in. The fans don't deserve to be punished just because the commissions and the UFC itself don't have a hard stance on fouls. The ref deemed the eye pokes unintentional, and Gane keeping his fingers upward with an open palm is LEGAL.

There's no easy fix, if you punish fouls heavily fighters will bait them or fake injury to win fights. Assuming Tom didn't get poked in his left eye, and we only had footage of the right eye. At one point is that considered a poke? If the fighter has his eye closed and there appears to be pressure on the eye from his opponents fingers, at what point is that a legitimate foul? Any time a finger touches an eyelid at any point that's a foul? Does it have to press into the eye socket to a specific extent? If I move my body into a nut shot, can I quit and go home with my paycheck? It will open up a whole other world of issues.


The UFC needs to adopt new gloves, but they aren't going to do that without extensive data that suggest the KO/TKO rate will become higher or remain the same. They also don't want to use gloves that a previous organization used, so it'd need to be something unique to their brand.

The goal is to force the ref's to hand out point deductions for fouls that change the potential outcome of the fight, as per the rules in place. Not to quit for every single foul occurring, however since the referees do not enforce any of the rules, stopping the fight after you've been illegally put at a major disadvantage that will change the outcome of an event that your entire life rides on... quit away. The ref's will get the message quickly.

Let's not be daft and pretend it isn't out of control. The number of pokes, dick kicks, fence grabs each guy gets is no less than 3, and at that point often a "hard warning" is given. It's ridiculous.