Money aside, what is wrong with Trump's wall?

[kpt018]

Which factor weighs more? How hard they are or the low pay?

How is that not the fault of immigrants? If they'll accept the lower wage why isn't that their fault? If they won't take it the job would go to the next person willing to take whatever pay was offered.

While not completely their fault you can't say they're blameless.

Huh? I'm not sure I follow, but these people are coming from horrendous situations. High murder rates, corrupt governments, etc.. Taking a low paying job in America is 1,000X better than their current situation. If I was born in a corrupt, high crime area in Mexico I'd do the same thing, try to get to America for a better life for me and my family. IDK, I don't find it crazy at all.

 

[spamking]

what's so glaring about this whole discussion, is that people don't seem to realize that a gigantic wall will not stop those, on both sides of the wall, who want to smuggle in illegal immigrants. people will find ways to get them through. what you need to do is remove the desire to have illegals in the united states. money talks louder than pandering rhetoric. and illegals save american companies a lot of money.

I think several folks have actually mentioned that . . .

Which situation would better lend itself to smuggling folks across the boarder . . . our current situation or a new, more secure wall with better surveillance and security personnel?

 

[kpt018]

Carpentry is "low level construction work" that's the point. Run of the mill Union construction workers in some states, concrete workers, make 50 bucks an hour. You're perpetrating a lie and you don't even realize it.

Secondly, when I was stationed in Csmp Pendelton, I used to see signs all the time around harvest time outside of the base advertising "labor wanted 4 dollars an hour". Where were the army of leftists in California putting s stop to that? Insuring that these people were paid at least minimum wage? They wee nowhere to be found. They were in on the hustle.

Nah, the lie is that Mexicans are taking American jobs and it's really not true.

 

[spamking]

Huh? I'm not sure I follow, but these people are coming from horrendous situations. High murder rates, corrupt governments, etc.. Taking a low paying job in America is 1,000X better than their current situation. If I was born in a corrupt, high crime area in Mexico I'd do the same thing, try to get to America for a better life for me and my family. IDK, I don't find it crazy at all.

You implied that Americans wouldn't do these same jobs due to low pay and how hard there are . . . I'm just curious if you think one is a bigger factor than the other.

I agree, that taking a low paying job here is way better for them. We all know what types of jobs their taking. I'm sure they could pull their own fast-food like walkout, but they're more prone to be deported if they cause a ruckus.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Nah, the lie is that Mexicans are taking American jobs and it's really not true.

So they're not getting jobs in America? What are they doing then?

 

[spamking]

Nah, the lie is that Mexicans are taking American jobs and it's really not true.

Huh? Surely you see that they are in fact taking a significant chunk in specific areas of work in various locations around the country.

 

[kpt018]

You implied that Americans wouldn't do these same jobs due to low pay and how hard there are . . . I'm just curious if you think one is a bigger factor than the other.

I agree, that taking a low paying job here is way better for them. We all know what types of jobs their taking. I'm sure they could pull their own fast-food like walkout, but they're more prone to be deported if they cause a ruckus.

I don't know, but both are factors. Americans have a stigma against blue collar jobs to begin with and if they don't pay much they aren't doing them.

 

[kpt018]

Huh? Surely you see that they are in fact taking a significant chunk in specific areas of work in various locations around the country.

It's not a zero sum game, though. They spend their money into the economy. They also pay taxes that they never benefit from (like sales tax).

And again, they're doing really low level stuff. Carpenters do the skilled work while unskilled Mexican laborers are carrying materials, for example.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I'm a Brit with no dog in the US electoral fight and Trump does seem to be a bit of a loon from where I'm standing but I was arguing with someone recently about immigration and they chipped in with "oh right well maybe we should build a wall like Trump wants to". And I had me thinking - other than it not being financially viable, what is actually wrong with having a wall to separate a border exactly?

I've had videos on Facebook posted at me likening it to the Berlin wall and the Israeli one but seems to me that various countries have borders, fences, border patrols and so on?

What is inherently wrong or inhumane about such a thing?

Aside from money, nothing really. I mean it doesn't sound very Christian like, but otherwise no biggie.

There are much cheaper and easier ways to accomplish the same result is the real issue

 

[spamking]

I don't know, but both are factors. Americans have a stigma against blue collar jobs to begin with and if they don't pay much they aren't doing them.

Not all of us do. My first job as a teenager was working construction jobs for my uncle. We've just made it too easy for folks to have an excuse to not do those types of jobs.

 

[spamking]

It's not a zero sum game, though. They spend their money into the economy. They also pay taxes that they never benefit from (like sales tax).

And again, they're doing really low level stuff. Carpenters do the skilled work while unskilled Mexican laborers are carrying materials, for example.

Not paying income taxes is a huge issue IMO. Sure, some of them are simple day laborers, but there many skilled folks who are here illegally.

 

[IIIIIIII]

I think several folks have actually mentioned that . . .

Which situation would better lend itself to smuggling folks across the boarder . . . our current situation or a new, more secure wall with better surveillance and security personnel?

it would seem logical that our current situation would allow more in than building a huge wall, but building a wall is only placing a very expensive band-aid on the issue, and not confronting the cause head-on, which is the desire of certain people from both sides of the wall wanting illegals to enter the country. why not focus on that? money is the answer. american citizens who don't want illegals to enter their country should place pressure on their own people to not hire illegal folks.

and it's amazing how people seem to gloss over the fact that trump-himself has hired illegals. but i guess the blatant hypocrisy goes unseen because people are so enamored by his patriotic rhetoric.

 

[kpt018]

Not all of us do. My first job as a teenager was working construction jobs for my uncle. We've just made it too easy for folks to have an excuse to not do those types of jobs.

That's a good thing IMO. The negative stigma needs to be lifted. I'm with you on that.

Not paying income taxes is a huge issue IMO. Sure, some of them are simple day laborers, but there many skilled folks who are here illegally.

Yup, that is one of the negatives. When I refer to a "net positive for the economy" that takes income taxes into consideration. But if we're being accurate they don't pay income taxes or payroll taxes.

 

[DizzyDaze]

It just screams fear and paranoia and shows how bad off most Americans are, that to fix a problem just put a wall around it, build it higher etc

The rednecks have a louder voice than ever with Trump and he's really bringing out the worst of America to the forefront if you ask me.

Make America great again or make america 1852 again.

Seriously, watch the calendar, if Trump is elected time will start going backwards.

fear and paranoia but you're talking about how times going to go backwards?

 

[spamking]

There are much cheaper and easier ways to accomplish the same result is the real issue

Such as? Border Patrol on steroids?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

If people are shoplifting in my store, clearly the issue is to close the whole store, mrite?

Pretty bad metaphor IMO.

 

[spamking]

it would seem logical that our current situation would allow more in than building a huge wall, but building a wall is only placing a very expensive band-aid on the issue, and not confronting the cause head-on, which is the desire of certain people from both sides of the wall wanting illegals to enter the country. why not focus on that? money is the answer. american citizens who don't want illegals to enter their country should place pressure on their own people to not hire illegal folks.

and it's amazing how people seem to gloss over the fact that trump-himself has hired illegals. but i guess the blatant hypocrisy goes unseen because people are so enamored by his patriotic rhetoric.

It's almost a chicken and egg thing though . . . if people didn't hire them they wouldn't seek a job in the US illegally. If they didn't come to the US illegally in search of a job they wouldn't get hired . . .

But hasn't efforts to remove folks here been met with just as much resistance as a wall? Asylum cities aren't helping things either.

 

[gatchaman]

Walls, which keep them out, also keep you in.

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

Yes, and it was enforced under Obama, you see Mexico has been the buffer zone for decades between the wars you guys created and your border.

Obama gave millions to Mexico to enforce the south border in order to stop the flow of central americans, with huge human costs since central americans now have to go through cartel country.

Then that means the wall is an effective tool. Or at least everyone that has funded the wall thinks it's an effective tool and have no say in the Trump wall.

 

[Torrid]

I didn't propose the magical circumstance. I answered the question proposed by others and then the positions presented by you.

I didn't pretend your problems weren't an issue. You didn't present anything specific. Environment, topography. Okay...but you didn't say what about them we should be addressing. They're empty cbuzzwords without effort. At least someone else said: Animals cross the border and a wall impacts them. See, that's an actual point, not just a word.

You want me to address things that you didn't even take the time to type out. For example: What percentage of the topography is incapable of supporting a wall of any type? What difference does the visual effect to citizens have to do with how well a wall prevents illegal entry. C'mon, you're not even attempting to flesh out your points.

Okay, so you're full of shit. I got it - thanks.

"What difference does the visual effect to citizens have to do with how well a wall prevents illegal entry"

This is literally your response when someone says the land needed to build the wall would infringe on the property ownership of a citizen, which already happened when Bush did it 10 years ago.

You want a deeper synopsis of the topographical issues? Here: there are some. That's more than none and less that a lot. Enjoy your fucking wall that's chopped into segments.