Jones ducked Ngannou for years!

So now Jon ducked Aspinall by fighting Gane back when Tom was still out injured? Talk about revisionist history. <lmao>

Thats not exactly what I was trying to say though.

Jon pulled a GSP/Bisping style act of opportunistic timing. He magically popped up and made his HW debut once Ngannou was gone, got a title fight against a pillow fisted striker with limited MMA experience and who wasnt actually the champ, then a few months after he won the belt two much more stylistically dangerous looking opponents fought for the interim, and Jon sat at home with the belt talking up a 40+ year old who hasnt won a fight in over 4 years instead.
 
The lead-up doesn't matter. When a contract was actually ready, Francis said no while Jon said yes.

The contact was available before that, Jones just wouldn't even open up contract discussions because he was scared.

Ngannou asked for Jones fight for years. Facts.
 
Interesting! Fight offer and contract was offered to Francis for UFC285 to fight Jones. Jones is the one that ended up fighting on the same card vs a different opponent. But yet Jon fought once Francis left??? Something doesn't add up here.
Jones was actually booked on that card long before Ngannou officially didn't sign as well.

Chael, Ariel both reported on it. Dana said he's fighting for the HW title next.

On every news site, they listed Jones as fighting on that card for the HW title back in December, about a month before Ngannou never signed.

But the opponent was up in the air, depending on whether Ngannou signed.

To me this seems to be very cut and dry facts, but this is what polarizing figures do to people. People will unconsciously bend reality in a way that fits their own biased preconceived notions.

Even me saying this, those same people will act like I'm some gigafan, when I'm just speaking common sense.

Extremist mindsets. You see them in all sports, in every comment section, every political and scientific debate. Even if you say everything right, dot your I's and cross your t's, it probably still won't get through.

Many people rely on group consciousness to decide what they should believe. If a large number of people believe and push a narrative, many will join in, without any independent thought of their own. That's another thing hard to break, these debates become witch hunts, where very little thinking, researching and weighing of every side of a discussion actually occurs.

It's usually people who are most capable of thinking on their own, without being influenced by the emotional intensity of a discussion, who will give the most honest answers, which tends to be a minority.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JKS
Thats not exactly what I was trying to say though.

Jon pulled a GSP/Bisping style act of opportunistic timing. He magically popped up and made his HW debut once Ngannou was gone, got a title fight against a pillow fisted striker with limited MMA experience and who wasnt actually the champ, then a few months after he won the belt two much more stylistically dangerous looking opponents fought for the interim, and Jon sat at home with the belt talking up a 40+ year old who hasnt won a fight in over 4 years instead.
He was already booked to fight for the belt before Ngannou left. Way back in December.

Jones was actually linked to fight Stipe for a while in 2022, but Stipe couldn't come to an agreement with the UFC over money according to Ariel via tweet.

Based on the headlines, it looks like Jones came back shortly after the Frank and Gane fight. As prior to it, Dana was quoted in an interview saying he wasn't sure what Jones would do.

A few months later, he was quoted saying they were trying to get him a fight. At this same time, Chael, Ariel, DC all reported he was back.

So, he didn't just come back.


Ngannou himself stated that the UFC offered him the contract to fight Jon Jones for 8 million and turned it down. The UFC isn't offering a contract like that unless the other party had also come to an agreement.

The fight could have happened in March. When Ngannou didn't sign, they went with Gane as a backup.

This whole idea of Jones only showing up when Ngannou left is fantasy.
 
That's cute. You keep bringing me new ideas though, next time I'm losing an argument I'll just say "your argument is bullshit" without providing further explanation as to why it is, in fact, bullshit, other than "everybody does it". Which actually kind of sounds like what I used to tell my parents when I was a kid and I wanted something. "But everybody has/does it!"

I'm sure asking for a guaranteed 6x the amount of pay the top earner/fighter in the company makes is common practice in the UFC.

Then again, expecting intellectual honesty in discussions from members of the Jon Jones Glazing Squad was my mistake.

<JonesLaugh>
Worth noting that these supposed numbers also came from Dana, who uses strong arm negotiation tactics through public means during negotiations. So, whatever he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

However, Its common in negotiations to start off with high numbers and then meet somewhere in the middle, which is more or less what Jones also stated around that time.

That being said, according to the media, Ariel Chael, Dana and Jones himself, those money qualms ended at some point in 2022.

The money issue was raised in 2021, but we never heard of it since then.

So, whatever Jones was asking for, it looks like they'd come to an agreement, long before Ngannou officially left.

Jones was training to fight Stipe at the end of 2022. Which was reported through all the media and through Jon's own Twitter, according to Helwani, it didn't happen because Stipe wasn't getting a bump in pay to take the fight so wouldn't take it.

But, if they were still in the midst of money discussions, it would be known through all of 2022, just like it was for Ngannou, all the way up until he left. No logical reason why this wouldn't be the case.

But we seen the exact opposite, indicating that whatever issues they had no longer existed. Dana changed his tune from Jones asking for money, to saying they were looking to get him a fight. Not sure how much more clearly it can be spelled out.

Jones was good, only thing left was for Ngannou to sign and he decided to box. The rest is history.

But if Ngannou signed, the fight would've happened, anything beyond that is fantasy.
 
I don't think either of them were scared and ducked a fight but both of them had demands. Jones asked for a lot of money and I think they could have negotiated that. On the other hand, Ngannou asked for a lot of things in addition to money. He wanted to box and had "certain stipulations" and the UFC wasn't going to meet all of his demands He priced himself out of the organization.

From mmajunkie
"Ngannou said he was keen on staying and re-signing with the UFC to fight with Jones, so long certain stipulations were met for his new contract. Those didn’t come to fruition according to Ngannou, thus prompting his exit from the UFC."
The last time we heard of the money issues from Jones or the UFC was 2021.

After Ngannou and Gane fought, that changed completely.

Dana went from being visibly unsure what Jones would do, to verbally during interviews that they were looking to get him a fight.

Simultaneously, Jones also began talking about his return, his training, before they officially tried to book the Stipe fight at some point in 2022.

Through the media grapevine, we knew all through 2022 and the beginning of 2023 of Frank's negotiation. His money issues and everything else.

Logically, if that were still ongoing with Jones, we would've continued to hear it as well, just like when Dana went in on him back in 2021.

But it was the opposite. The media, Dana, Ariel, Chael, DC, even Jones himself all reported that he was back and ready to fight.

You're right though that neither of them were scared, this is how business goes and it's not always clear cut in how you get a deal done where both parties are satisfied. It can be tricky, especially when you have two of the biggest stars in the sport.

However, when the fight was finally possible logistically, Jones signed, Ngannou boxed, the rest is history.
 
That makes no sense Jon was Light Heavy Weight until pretty recently then went Heavy and had all those law issues and medical issues he couldn't have been ducking no time busy schedule avoiding the law.
 
As much as I like Fedor, it was all on him. Brock had no real reason to not want that fight, he was thrown to the wolves basically from jump. But a guy who had developed an aura and cult like following based around his undefeated record absolutely had a reason to avoid the UFC where he wasnt gonna get the same freedom to manage the risks he took.

As for Jon/Ngannou. Seems like Jon would have much more reason to avoid that fight than Ngannou would. Ngannou was less of a star and already had multiple losses, while Jon was the bigger star but the smaller man, and had the whole "undefeated" aura to protect. Also its not like Jon is some scary heavy hitting fighter that people are terrified of, whereas Ngannou was. I dont see why a guy who fought genuinely scary dudes like Reem and then went to boxing to fight friggin Anthony Joshua, would be afraid of a pillow fisted career LHW who was last seen getting a contentious decision over Dominick Reyes.
Jones was a nightmare matchup for Ngannou.

An elite wrestler and statistically one of the least cleanly hit fighters of all time. Basically the mayweather of mma.

We'd just seen Gane make him look silly on the feet because he came at him with a versatile skillset.

Historically, guys who just have boxing, have a very hard time against Jones because he controls the kicking range and utilizes his arm length so masterfully. The way he combines that with versatility of weapons, both offensively and defensively. He's very hard to hit clean.

Even Reyes said unless he could have success challenging Jon with kicks, he had no chance.

Frank's best shot was to land a knockout blow on one of the least hit fighters in the history of the sport, who also possessed incredible fight IQ and the threat of the takedown. That chance goes down drastically after the first round.

Stylistically it wasn't a great fight for Ngannou at all, most fighters picked Jones against him, including DC and for good reason.

The idea that people are so confident Jones ducked it, has to stem from an idea that he wouldn't have what it takes to win it. Which comes down to bad analysis and low fight iq.
 
Jones was a nightmare matchup for Ngannou.

An elite wrestler and statistically one of the least cleanly hit fighters of all time. Basically the mayweather of mma.
.

Also a pillow fisted career LHW who hadnt fought for years and was last seen getting a contentious decision win over Reyes.

Ngannou is like 270+lbs and athletic at that size too, negates the height/reach advantage Jones had over practically everyone he ever faced, had fought wrestlers like Blaydes and Stipe and beat them, and was probably the biggest puncher in the history of the sport, and you think Jon was a nightmare match up for HIM?
 
Also a pillow fisted career LHW who hadnt fought for years and was last seen getting a contentious decision win over Reyes.

Ngannou is like 270+lbs and athletic at that size too, negates the height/reach advantage Jones had over practically everyone he ever faced, had fought wrestlers like Blaydes and Stipe and beat them, and was probably the biggest puncher in the history of the sport, and you think Jon was a nightmare match up for HIM?
Like I said, it's just poor fight IQ and analysis. Jones has made a career on making guys with one hitter quitter power look silly. Even guys who supposedly had the most success against him, could barely hit him cleanly.

DC hit him clean more than every other fighter, because he's also a strategic tactician with multiple dimensions of his game, multiple plan B's and C's at every moment.
He didn't just have boxing, but intelligence of exactly how he approached Jon's range, his versatility.

You need someone whos capable of matching Jones in his multi dimensionality, both in skillset, mindset and fight IQ.

When you just have power, just have boxing, it's difficult. People don't even seem to recognize how little Jones has been hit throughout his career, they don't even know why people consider him the goat from a skill POV.

Ngannou himself seen how difficult it is to fight a good kickboxer with multiple tools on the feet when he fought Gane. He made Ngannou look sloppy on the feet and shoot for takedowns. Gane has nowhere near the defense Jones does, not even close.

I think people look to Jon's worst performances and use them to analyze him, not realizing that there's many versions of Jon. The more he respects and fears you as a fighter, the better he is.

Like Rogan has said, you can't replicate fear. You either have it or you don't, and it's that lack of adrenaline and butterflies which comes from not having an adequate respect for them which is responsible for many great upsets. GSP Serra is a great example of this. The one fight where GSP said he slept like a baby with no fear. When you've been so far ahead of your opponents and division for your entire career, that type of motivation is always going to be an issue.

This is the version of Jones we seen during the end of his LHW run, even DC , Rashad and Smith said that for many of his fights, it looked like he was just going through the motions. All of whom have fought him.

Compare that to the version of Jones we seen against DC, both fights.

It's not even the same fighter.

I think this is also responsible for his move to HW to begin with. He needed a new challenge, something new to gain, something to actually get motivated and fired up about.

Which is generally a common issue with fighters who've been in the game at the highest level for a long time. During this stage of a fighter or athletes career, they're always looking for the "right one"

Overall, you'd think because Jones is widely considered the goat, there would actually be some effort put into understanding why he's so good..but there really isn't. People just assume because he had a close fight with Reyes, there's no way he could beat Francis, very little goes into it beyond that.

People who are confident Ngannou smoked him simply don't understand the sport.

And if they're that confident Ngannou beats him, I can understand why you'd think he ducked him, but in both cases, its a fantasy. Something people concocted in their heads, which ignores all the evidence to the contrary.
 
Also a pillow fisted career LHW who hadnt fought for years and was last seen getting a contentious decision win over Reyes.

Ngannou is like 270+lbs and athletic at that size too, negates the height/reach advantage Jones had over practically everyone he ever faced, had fought wrestlers like Blaydes and Stipe and beat them, and was probably the biggest puncher in the history of the sport, and you think Jon was a nightmare match up for HIM?
I do think its notable as well that Jones never faced Rumble at LHW, I do wonder whether he was actually quite happy for some of those suspensions to happen if it meant Cormier had to fight him instead.
 
Gee, surprise, surprise. The Gift of Gane was rewarded for "losing" to Dana's boy.

Jon didn't fight a Single HW, EVER. You, JKS, are a Dana parrot, a joke.

And you're a delusional moron, now beat it.
 
Dude, IF. If Jones agreed to the fight he would get 8mil. He hadn't agreed to any fight with Frank and he wouldn't have. You're telling me they came into negotiations with a fight contract signed by Jon Jones. That didn't happen.

No, I am saying the UFC was in contract talks with both guys for 2022, offered both guys the fight that they've been trying to make for over a year, there was a contract for both guys and event date was set. All that had to happen, was both guys to sign, Jon signed the deal. That's exactly how it was going. Jon was already booked on the card and was waiting on Ngannou to sign. His name was on the card like a month prior.

And should let up on your theory on Jon not signing to fight Francis, it's sounding like a conspiracy theory now, it's actually a bit crazy. You want me to believe that Jon would spend all that time sizing up for HW, negotiating a new contract and the actual fight. Then he signs the new deal, is offered the title shot in what would be one of the biggest fights ever. And he would not take it?? He was booked on the event already and Francis was still negotiating.
 
Last edited:
The only reason that fight didn't happen is as simple as the UFC not parting with enough money.

Jones and Francis both know that just might be the biggest fight the UFC could make and both guys felt they should get paid accordingly for that. The UFC simply didn't offer enough.


I'd say the UFC ducked that long before Jone or Francis.
 
And you're a delusional moron, now beat it.
HEY, I ain't delusional !​
You have my apology, sorry I called you a joke. I should have responded only to your statement and not toward you as a person.
 
The only reason that fight didn't happen is as simple as the UFC not parting with enough money.

Jones and Francis both know that just might be the biggest fight the UFC could make and both guys felt they should get paid accordingly for that. The UFC simply didn't offer enough.


I'd say the UFC ducked that long before Jone or Francis.

Money wasn't the issue. Jon signed his new contract that had his pay for the Francis fight, he was happy. And Francis got offered a very large sum of money for that fight. Francis even said in every interview that money wasn't the issue and it was other things. He went as far to say they threw money at him lol.

The fight didn't happen simply for the reason that Francis did sign the contract offer and he had options that were better for him. I am not blaming him, I agree he did what was better for him. In order to make Francis happy the UFC would have to agree to his requests like to box among other things. But those were requests that aren't in UFC contracts and didn't really benefit them.

This was we have write off like Fedor/UFC.....both sides just didn't agree and come to a deal.
 
Back
Top