Crime Jeffrey Epstein Dead

How do ya think Epstein died?


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I'd be hard pressed to tell you which one I spend more time at. Depends on the month, really. Which are you thinking of?

We didn't meet at the gym, but I can meet you at the one you typically don't go to. Then I will assist you in becoming better...
 
I'm assuming I'm not going to get reply banned from this thread cause' @senri
 
Used to watch the HBO specials with Michael Baden the forensic pathologist. He has already indicated the strangeness of certain bones broken in the neck that are very rare in suicides. May never be solved but definitely seems foul.
Hyoid break in a hanging in an older man is not very rare. This is something you can easily verify yourself.
 
What really surprises me is @panamaican leaning toward murder when suicide suffices as an explanation, fits with all of the facts, and requires few if any assumptions (compared with the wavy gravy murder hypothesis that requires a lot of evidence that doesn't exist and is unlikely to exist). Probably the weakest sauce I've seen from you in my years posting in the WR. But anybody can be susceptible to CTs.
 
What really surprises me is @panamaican leaning toward murder when suicide suffices as an explanation, fits with all of the facts, and requires few if any assumptions (compared with the wavy gravy murder hypothesis that requires a lot of evidence that doesn't exist and is unlikely to exist). Probably the weakest sauce I've seen from you in my years posting in the WR. But anybody can be susceptible to CTs.

I think the lack of evidence that should exist, like the video footage, is what may drive the theories of murder. No, it is not impossible for surveillance systems to break down or malfunction, but keeping visual tabs on arguably the most high profile inmate currently in the system should be top priority. Especially if he was indeed on suicide watch.
 
I think the lack of evidence that should exist, like the video footage, is what may drive the theories of murder. No, it is not impossible for surveillance systems to break down or malfunction, but keeping visual tabs on arguably the most high profile inmate currently in the system should be top priority. Especially if he was indeed on suicide watch.
There's no reason to prefer the explanation of murder to a simple covering up of negligence or something else along those lines. In fact murder hypo introduces its own giant lack of expected evidence that dwarfs the scope of the "should exist" evidence for the suicide hypothesis.
 
There's no reason to prefer the explanation of murder to a simple covering up of negligence or something else along those lines.

There are plenty of reasons. These are all rather convenient cases of "negligence" surrounding ONE inmate. A rather high profile inmate, where negligence to this degree is completely unbelievable. An inmate who has dirt on the elites in damn near every facet of every circle. Royalty, government, organized crime...

But yeah, I'm sure the prison is just covering their ass to save a few jobs...LOL.
 
There are plenty of reasons. These are all rather convenient cases of "negligence" surrounding ONE inmate. A rather high profile inmate, where negligence to this degree is completely unbelievable. An inmate who has dirt on the elites in damn near every facet of every circle. Royalty, government, organized crime...

But yeah, I'm sure the prison is just covering their ass to save a few jobs...LOL.
You haven't made any case for a murder though. You're just telling me that it sounds fishy to you, but I don't agree that it's any more of a reason for murder than suicide. And considering that the alternative is coming up with a yet-unimagined smooth explanation for some sort of Jews of Hazzard pratfall of failed hits and/or suicides, I'm still the one with a straight head here.
 
You haven't made any case for a murder though. You're just telling me that it sounds fishy to you, but I don't agree that it's any more of a reason for murder than suicide. And considering that the alternative is coming up with a yet-unimagined smooth explanation for some sort of Jews of Hazzard pratfall of failed hits and/or suicides, I'm still the one with a straight head here.

I'm convinced you could see some lost footage of three guys entering his cell a minute before his death, and you'd still be calling it business as usual, and questioning whether or not they had bad intentions. You're in too deep, and must cling to your original narrative. Anything less than extreme close up HD footage of Epstein getting strangled by some dude, will not be good enough for you.
 
I'm convinced you could see some lost footage of three guys entering his cell a minute before his death, and you'd still be calling it business as usual, and questioning whether or not they had bad intentions. You're in too deep, and must cling to your original narrative. Anything less than extreme close up HD footage of Epstein getting strangled by some dude, will not be good enough for you.
A whiny non-response.
 
A whiny non-response.

An accurate response. You're now at key videotape evidence being "accidentally" erased, due to the prison covering up their own negligence...which has already been established.

Yes @Fawlty, they can deal with their negligence that has already been exposed...but that videotape would just kill their reputation...

Clown shoes...you're wearing them.
 
An accurate response. You're now at key videotape evidence being "accidentally" erased, due to the prison covering up their own negligence...which has already been established.

Yes @Fawlty, they can deal with their negligence that has already been exposed...but that videotape would just kill their reputation...

Clown shoes...you're wearing them.
It's even worse than that. I don't assume the loss of video back in August was the prison covering anything up, because there is no evidence that this is the case. The best evidence we have for a cover-up is the fact that the guards slept and forged logs, which we know to be true. The missing video is also from the first suicide attempt rather than the night of Epstein's death, and on that night there was enough video evidence to determine that "no one entered the area where Epstein was housed on the night he died," according to Barr.
 
What really surprises me is @panamaican leaning toward murder when suicide suffices as an explanation, fits with all of the facts, and requires few if any assumptions (compared with the wavy gravy murder hypothesis that requires a lot of evidence that doesn't exist and is unlikely to exist). Probably the weakest sauce I've seen from you in my years posting in the WR. But anybody can be susceptible to CTs.
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What can I say, this one speaks to me. I just find it hard to believe so many things go wrong in just the right way for just the right person at just the wrong time.
 
What can I say, this one speaks to me. I just find it hard to believe so many things go wrong in just the right way for just the right person at just the wrong time.

Sounds...logical.
 
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What can I say, this one speaks to me. I just find it hard to believe so many things go wrong in just the right way for just the right person at just the wrong time.
All of those coincidences are just as applicable to a "facilitated" suicide, and the circumstances fit suicide better by orders of magnitude when factoring in the multiple attempts whereafter Epstein had plenty of time with visitors (lawyers).

I mean, if we want to prefer murder to facilitated suicide as you do, we have to account for multiple attempts (?!), and it's also an indirect strong accusation against Bill Barr that he's covering up a murder by lying about the video evidence from the night of Epstein's death (this is a keystone), and implying that a significant number of unknown others are complicit in the Barr cover-up, to include making patsies out of the guards.

I'm sure there are a lot of other complications that I've not considered, too. It gets wildly out of reason very quickly.
 
All of those coincidences are just as applicable to a "facilitated" suicide, and the circumstances fit suicide better by orders of magnitude when factoring in the multiple attempts whereafter Epstein had plenty of time with visitors (lawyers).

I mean, if we want to prefer murder to facilitated suicide as you do, we have to account for multiple attempts (?!), and it's also an indirect strong accusation against Bill Barr that he's covering up a murder by lying about the video evidence from the night of Epstein's death, and implying that a significant number of unknown others are complicit in the Barr cover-up, to include making patsies out of the guards.

I'm sure there are a lot of other complications that I've not considered, too. It gets wildly out of reason very quickly.

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Listen, I openly refer to it as a CT precisely because there's no overwhelming information that I would take into a court for murder vs. suicide. I'm not pretending it's a completely justifiable position. But my gut says "not suicide". My gut says "1990s political spy thriller".
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