Crime Jeffrey Epstein Dead

[trident]

https://www.justice.gov/jmd/page/file/1033161/download

Overall funding stayed the same - it was higher in 2017 and lower in 2018. There were substantial cuts in spending on facilities and staffing. Its not clear where that spending went. @Crocop42 , any idea?

Federal prisons were at 24% over capacity in 2017. Staffing has been cut by about 20% since then, facilities spending has plummeted, and multiple prisons have been closed in that time, exacerbating the crowding + overwork problem. The number of federal inmates has changed by a small percentage in that same time.

What are the numbers for this particular facility, you know, the one that housed El Chapo during these spending shifts?

I dont care about other ones. Curious if these changes occurred with so such a high profile international drug dealer in house.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I am both surprised and impressed that Mr. Trump's wig adhesive was able to withstand perspiration of that magnitude.

Sweating like Vince Neil in Arizona is actually the most alpha you can be. MAGA

 

[Quipling]

What are the numbers for this particular facility, you know, the one that housed El Chapo during these spending shifts?

I dont care about other ones. Curious if these changes occurred with so such a high profile international drug dealer in house.

The local employees said their funding was cut. You remarked that you didn't believe Trump would cut prison spending. I just showed you that he did.

Do your own homework if you want prison-by-prison numbers. There's no reason to assume this particular one was treated differently, especially in light of the union statements.

 

[Fawlty]

Think of it like this: If anyone in the entire country was going to commit suicide over the next couple of weeks, it was going to be him. He was in a situation where officials could completely control every moment of his day, and there was an enormous public will to make sure that he lived to see trial, and the prison still managed to fuck it up. Its at a point where its easier to believe the guards were coerced (either through bribes or threat) to lie about their incompetence than to believe that they were actually that incompetent.

I don't think so, no. It's possible (somebody tells the guards "take a $10,000 nap guys"), but the best explanation is that the terrible institutional conditions which are independent of the case continued to be terrible conditions, and two guards caught some sleep when they were supposed to be making the rounds in the wee hours of the morning. If we're going to lean on the importance of the prisoner being a reason this couldn't have happened without corruption, you're missing an important part. There just wasn't the sort of extra response and monitoring in the first place that fits your description of the profile and importance of the case (for example, nobody was checking up on the guards at the time).

If that extra monitoring wasn't present and conditions were indeed as bad as we now know they were, then we can't pull that in as an indication of corruption or bribery so confidently. And if we're assuming corruption and this massively high profile, we also have to assume that guards would know they under that extra scrutiny and thus less likely to accept bribes.

The irregularities described in reports so far are of an institutional nature. One irregularity of a specific nature is the inordinate amount of time Epstein apparently spent with his lawyers. That's worth a look for sure.

 

[PhitePhan]

If I had to bet my own money I would bet on a combination of Blind Ignorance along with guards just not giving a f*ck, which is purposeful ignorance.

Not saying they wanted him to harm himself, but rather they realized that the proper protocols were not being followed, he was at some risk, but no one was going to put themselves out or go out of their way to ensure the pedophile was safe and secure. we'll get there, when we get there.

This makes little sense in the context of this particular case (high profile and ppl literally coming out weeks before about him "suicidikg" himself).

 

[Crocop42]

https://www.justice.gov/jmd/page/file/1033161/download

Overall funding stayed the same - it was higher in 2017 and lower in 2018. There were substantial cuts in spending on facilities and staffing. Its not clear where that spending went. @Crocop42 , any idea?

Federal prisons were at 24% over capacity in 2017. Staffing has been cut by about 20% since then, facilities spending has plummeted, and multiple prisons have been closed in that time, exacerbating the crowding + overwork problem. The number of federal inmates has changed by a small percentage in that same time.

A lot of it has to do with people really dont care or dont know what goes on behind the gates.

Majority of cuts came from Education and Programming for the inmates. The total # of prisoners in federal BOP custody has declined and they use that as justification. It's really only declined due to the increase in prisoners put in private prison complexes.
Private Prisons are a big part of the problem. There's a poster on this site that invests in private prison companies. They always make money.

 

[Higus]

I don't think so, no. It's possible (somebody tells the guards "take a $10,000 nap guys"), but the best explanation is that the terrible institutional conditions which are independent of the case continued to be terrible conditions, and two guards caught some sleep when they were supposed to be making the rounds in the wee hours of the morning. If we're going to lean on the importance of the prisoner being a reason this couldn't have happened without corruption, you're missing an important part. There just wasn't the sort of extra response and monitoring in the first place that fits your description of the profile and importance of the case (for example, nobody was watching the guards).

If that extra monitoring wasn't present and conditions were indeed as bad as we now know they were, then we can't pull that in as an indication of corruption or bribery so confidently. And if we're assuming corruption and this massively high profile, we also have to assume that guards would know they under that extra scrutiny and thus less likely to accept bribes.

The irregularities described in reports so far are of an institutional nature. One irregularity of a specific nature is the inordinate amount of time Epstein spent with his lawyers. That's worth a look for sure.

Let me put it like this:
At the moment, the evidence points towards incompetence. If it was corruption, the easiest way to hide said corruption would be to disguise it as incompetence, because the will to investigate deeper is mitigated when a working theory is already available. From a debate pov, arguing that it was a fuck up is going to be a stronger position until new evidence shows up.

 

[MikeMcMann]

This makes little sense in the context of this particular case (high profile and ppl literally coming out weeks before about him "suicidikg" himself).

it makes fine sense.

Guards have a history of not GAF about pedophiles under their care. They don't care if they commit suicide. They don't care if other inmates have openings to get to them.

Sure they will eventually do their job and get down there and check but they are in no hurry as they simply DNGAF if he ends up dead.

So you might argue, 'well in this case they should care' after all he is in an important pedophile. And maybe some would. But you cannot assume all would. Some may still be happy to see a little prison justice happen to the pedo, self inflicted or other inflicted.

If anything it is the number of coincidences or bad/wrong decisions combined that should give people pause.

- who gave the order to take him off suicide watch and move him from those secure cells and why? Did they follow protocol?
- Who made the call that despite protocol saying he should have a cellmate as someone just coming off suicide watch to just let that pass as the prior assigned cellmate was now transferred?
- what were the guards procedures and why were they not followed (this is being answered now)

As you pile up more and more coincidences or bad decisions it drops the likelihood of it being accidental and not planned. that does not mean one should jump tot he conclusion it could not just be a compilation of bad decisions and fuck ups, just that it becomes less likely.

 

[Quipling]

A lot of it has to do with people really dont care or dont know what goes on behind the gates.

Majority of cuts came from Education and Programming for the inmates. The total # of prisoners in federal BOP custody has declined and they use that as justification. It's really only declined due to the increase in prisoners put in private prison complexes.
Private Prisons are a big part of the problem. There's a poster on this site that invests in private prison companies. They always make money.

Seems like a straightforward guess that the spending shifted towards the private prisons, then, which is why overall expenditures haven't changed much.

 

[Fawlty]

Let me put it like this:
At the moment, the evidence points towards incompetence. If it was corruption, the easiest way to hide said corruption would be to disguise it as incompetence, because the will to investigate deeper is mitigated when a working theory is already available. From a debate pov, arguing that it was a fuck up is going to be a stronger position until new evidence shows up.

All of the evidence so far (and all that continues to come out) vs. Zero evidence is fairly strong though, imo.

 

[trident]

The local employees said their funding was cut. You remarked that you didn't believe Trump would cut prison spending. I just showed you that he did.

Do your own homework if you want prison-by-prison numbers. There's no reason to assume this particular one was treated differently, especially in light of the union statements.

So what you are suggesting is that during the stay of El Chapo, this facility shifted funding to make the place not function as well.

One could certainly assume, considering the inmates in this jail, that it would possible it operated differently than others.

Anyway, this is your homework, not mine, since the claim this all happened due to poor funding is not one I am championing.

You have to show to me that during the very years El Chapo was housed there, this facility began a pattern of jeopardizing safety and security to such an extent that by the time Epstein arrived he was able to pull off the once in a generation suicide.

 

[all caps]

 

[PhitePhan]

All of the evidence so far (and all that continues to come out) vs. Zero evidence is fairly strong though, imo.

Does any of the supposed evidence come from any sources not directly implicated in this potential crime?

 

[Fedorable]

inconclusive.

 

[trident]

Let's say the conditions existed for Epstein to kill himself.

He would have to know these conditions existed otherwise he would risk getting back on suicide watch.

He didnt try before after getting off suicide watch. He picked the perfect moment to do it.

How does Occams Razor cut that up?

 

[ocean size]

He would have to know these conditions existed otherwise he would risk getting back on suicide watch.

He didnt try before after getting off suicide watch. He picked the perfect moment to do it.

How does Occams Razor cut that up?

He wouldn't have to risk going on suicide watch if he knew he could pull it off. If the guards are checking on you once per night for a few days in a row at the same time you can assume you can pull off killing yourself. I'm not saying I think there was no foul play but I don't see that as a strong argument.

 

[trident]

He wouldn't have to risk going on suicide watch if he knew he could pull it off. If the guards are checking on you once per night for a few days in a row at the same time you can assume you can pull off killing yourself. I'm not saying I think there was no foul play but I don't see that as a strong argument.

Do we know this was the norm or just what happened that night?

 

[trident]

inconclusive.

That painting is worth a lot of money now

 

[HereticBD]

It is totally partisan. I doubt you will see left wing posters in here saying Bill Clinton had him killed. This whole incident is just a vessel to push partisanship. Epstein is just a means to an end.

Shut up, conspiritard.

 

[HereticBD]

Does this count the sweaty lesbian currently in the Oval Office?

Not for nothing, but Trump has seemed extra sweaty lately. His makeup department must've switched to some hippy organic shit, or something.