Law It's on. Women vs Transgenders as girls sue to keep transgender out of women's sports

[Swing]

About time. The pressure just needs to keep up. Regardless of how difficult this is to accomplish legally, it needs to get done.

 

[luckyshot]

Is the height thing in basketball really a valid comparison though? Take a look at the top 50 all time players and not many of them are 7 feet tall or more.

Not many of them are under 6' either.

 

[BEER]

What good is that? Some people on Twitter? Any influential people? Anyone in the government? Anyone with any real power? No and that's why you have people saying what you're responding to.. The fact is that not only is this 100 percent coming from the left but majority on the left don't actually believe in it yet are too scared to call it out.

That what the focus should be on.

Yeah, you're right its just a fringe group

The Equality Act, which would ban transgender discrimination, passed the House without a single Democrat voting against it.

While Elizabeth Warren is a pandering dork, I support Trans equality.

But Trans equality does not and should not include encroaching in women's spaces, including sports.

None of that shit has anything to do with sports. Only the biggest dork ass losers would say "biological men should be allowed to beat the shit out of women, because equality".

There is a difference between that and the Equality Act, which basically just updates our current federal discrimination laws to include gender identity. If a measure were introduced that argues that trans women would be allowed to compete in sporting events with biological women, I would be against it. As would most liberals. If it passed, it would be another sign that a very loud minority has entirely too much influence over the DNC.

And I'm no fan of the DNC.

 

[Rygu]

Not many of them are under 6' either.

Most male professional athletes in any sport are over 6 feet.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Yeah, you could define fair that way. Or you could not.

Your definition of "fair" doesn't include weight classes, for example. So are weight classes unfair? Or more fair? Can something be "more or less" fair? Isn't it supposed to be "fair is fair"?

If we have weight classes in wrestling, why don't we have height classes in basketball?

My point here is that people just equate "fair" with "what they are used to."

*Once again, I am not advocating for transwomen to compete with natural women. I have to keep adding that caveat because when you challenge conventional thinking most people just see red and think you are advocating for whatever they don't like. That's how cultural conservationism works... it's a very knee jerk response, which is why it is called being "reactionary."

On the other hand, a true liberal is limber-minded. One of the mark of liberalism (and intelligence) is to be able to consider the complexities of a point of view without necessarily agreeing with them.

I think you can certainly open up 'fair' by adding voluntary criteria to it and allowing people to choose or not choose to compete while offering alternatives. 'Same' or a 'category' can be voluntarily defined and that is ok. That is weight classes as you point out.

The UFC does not have an open weight category. They could add it and allow any one and any biological sex or gender to compete in it and that would be fair and actually 'more fair' than the current system. People would have choice to compete within those boundaries against people considered 'same' or in an 'open' environment where 'same is basically not bound'.

Biological women are not offered any choice to compete against 'same' if trans women can come in and dominate their activities. And it is 'unfair' imo to take away that 'winning moment' from them where they get to be viewed as the best of their sport in their class. Some may wave that away as unimportant and that we should be above ego, but sport is driven by that drive.

I do not think it is hyperbole to say women's sport as we know it will be destroyed if this trend continues. You are seeing the leading edge of mostly American Trans M/F athletes pushing these boundaries as America strives to be a more accepting and open society. Imagine this totally accepted and other countries, who might take a more negative view of trans (any LGBTQ) but who are authoritarian and want to dominate sports, see this as a way to dominant sport stage and start pushing/pressuring/demanding the 5th and 6th place males to declare themselves Trans and go and crush the female sports.

How do you deal with that, if you have an unscrupulous regime taking advantage of the open door?

And again I don't think it is hyperbole to see that happening in a future where trans M/F are allowed to compete alongside biological females ESPECIALLY if they get to medal in the 'female' category and not a 'trans' category as you propose.

 

[MVelsor]

represented by the conservative nonprofit organization Alliance Defending Freedom

Oh, Shit.

The 800-Pound Gorilla Rarely Loses.

Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) is an American conservative Christian nonprofit organization with the stated goal of advocating, training, and funding on the issues of "religious freedom, sanctity of life, marriage and family." ADF is headquartered in Scottsdale, Arizona and runs the Center for Academic Freedom.

Because of its budget, caseload, and network of allied attorneys, ADF is seen as the most organized and influential Christian legal interest group in the country, and has been described as "the 800-pound gorilla of the Christian right". It has argued nine cases before the Supreme Court and won all of them.

ADF's formal support for anti-sodomy laws dates to at least 2003, before the Supreme Court made its landmark decision in Lawrence v. Texas. ADF filed an amicus brief in the case, defending state laws criminalizing consensual same-sex activity and spent nearly 30 pages arguing in favor of upholding it. In 2011, ADF senior counsel Kevin Theriot wrote that "a legal right to engage in

 

[MikeMcMann]

Is the height thing in basketball really a valid comparison though? Take a look at the top 50 all time players and not many of them are 7 feet tall or more.

I think when talking about 'fair' playing field within a defined sport we need to separate between 'natural' advantages and 'engineered advantages', which is what PED rules have always attempted to do.

The goal has never been to see clones compete all having the exact same genetics. The goal has always been to see how varying humans from varying backgrounds with varying genetics could maximize those NATURAL gifts and bring them to the playing field in competition.

That is 'fair' competition, imo.

 

[luckyshot]

Most male professional athletes in any sport are over 6 feet.

Most male professional athlete are also over 112 pounds, so what is this guy?

Does he "deserve" to be a professional athlete or not?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

There is a difference between that and the Equality Act, which basically just updates our current federal discrimination laws to include gender identity.

Acting in conformity with the truth is a fundamental human right. Forcing people to affirm nonsense is an affront to people's dignity.

 

[BarryDillon]

Every single thread has one of you painting liberals for this shit.

Even though I and plenty of other liberals on this forum alone have spoken against it. Liberals all over Twitter and (I assume) other social media speaking against it.

But sure, bud, it's the liberals and not a niche group of hyper-"progressives" lobbying this shit through shit tier media outlets trying to win woke Tokens.

*Wokens

 

[Oooxente]

Bullshit.
I have being told everybody is the same and have the same capacities to achieve whatever they want.

Bunch of sore losers!! should be ashamed of themselves!!!!!!

 

[MikeMcMann]

While Elizabeth Warren is a pandering dork, I support Trans equality.

But Trans equality does not and should not include encroaching in women's spaces, including sports.

None of that shit has anything to do with sports. Only the biggest dork ass losers would say "biological men should be allowed to beat the shit out of women, because equality".

There is a difference between that and the Equality Act, which basically just updates our current federal discrimination laws to include gender identity. If a measure were introduced that argues that trans women would be allowed to compete in sporting events with biological women, I would be against it. As would most liberals. If it passed, it would be another sign that a very loud minority has entirely too much influence over the DNC.

And I'm no fan of the DNC.

we have a very quiet battle going on here in Edmonton as I have been informed.

Quiet because the organization trying to deal with it and find a solution is one of the biggest LGBTQ supporters in the city, which is the YMCA. You all would know the name via the Village People song YMCA, which has been a gay (LGBTQ) friendly gym/organization long before it was trendy to be so.

We have a trans M/F who is not transitioning or taking hormones and identifies as a lesbian, and dresses female (if that is ok to say, lol) who insists on using the female change room which almost always includes mothers and daughters. So they are just 'declared' trans but are taking no other steps.

How much of this next part is true or just rhetoric or demonization to try and get them driven out, i do not know but the reports are that while they do not walk around naked they do get naked in front of their locker when changing. And more, that some other people have cited instances of this person showing signs of physical arousal while walking around the changeroom with only a towel wrapped around them which is countered with the argument 'so what, all lesbians get aroused, and because my body parts show it differently I should not be condemned'.

I've been told solutions such as a voluntary 'all gender change room' have been proposed which anyone can voluntarily use have been rejected if they make it mandatory for a trans person to use it. Meaning 'fine, create that option but if i want to use the other ones I shall not be prohibited'.

I've also been told what they seem to be moving to is a 'family only (parents with kids)' change room which won't make instances like this impossible but will make it much more difficult but that just gives one group (parents with kids) a safe space. It does nothing for the rest of the women, and it is actually lesbian women who are fighting this the most. It is lesbian women who seem to be the focus of most trans M/F ire as they want to force lesbian women to accept and f*ck them, despite the male equipment, and are outing them as phobic and discriminatory for not doing so.

Lesbian women, by far, are the group most challenged by this as they have had so few safe spaces they have been able to carve out historically and trans M/F want into those spaces the most.

You have Vancouver cases being fought by trans M/F activists who demands access to the battered women's shelters and feels if is discrimination by the women in those facilities who do not want to be left alone with them.

City shelters are being stripped of gov't funding in an 'allow them in... or else' mandate.

Canada's oldest rape crisis centre stripped of city funding for refusing to accept trans women

 

[MilesAbove]

I've said this many times and have never seen a counter to it?

That's because people wanna argue, I guess.

I would love to see if anyone thinks this would not be fair or the proper way to do it?

People hate efficient arguments that kill the problem.

And to be fair, transgender people will say it's not fair because they may have to take estrogen or testosterone and so biologically they are altered toward the other gender. However, I think that's the price you pay for the life decision, and it's hard to argue that.

Commissions all just come out and say 'we want to apply a fair and consistent rule and that will be all athletes are to compete by biological sex,which does not change, instead of gender which can be fluid'.

They then apply it consistently with the same application of PED and other disqualifiers.

Yup. It's that simple.

What could the complaint possibly be? 'I am trans M/F and just can't compete against those with the same biology... this is unfair?'

Again, it'd probably be the hormone therapy argument. But that doesn't make the biological-sex distinction unfair.[/quote]

If anyone thinks this would be wrong I would love to hear the reasoning???

Don't hold your breath, but maybe we'll get lucky and someone actually has an argument against it.... or can at least play devil's advocate.

 

[all caps]

My transgender hairstylist is gonna line me up today. I sure hope these nazis dont come for people just trying to make an honest living next.

 

[MVelsor]

There is a difference between that and the Equality Act, which basically just updates our current federal discrimination laws to include gender identity.

I think its implicit by change of definition in the federal code. The Equality Act is also far larger than some tranny rights bill, let's not have folks believing sexual orientation is actually a protected class in the United States. Unlike the majority of western nations who passed these kind of bills decades ago, the transgender stuff has just been hitched to it here.

The Equality Act is a bill in the United States Congress, that if passed, would amend the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity in employment, housing, public accommodations, public education, federal funding, credit, and the jury system.

The Equality Act expands the categories of "public accommodations" to include places or establishments that provide goods, services or programs. It prohibits "establishment" from being construed to be limited to a physical facility or place. It also updates the definitions of three terms:

* "sex" to include biological sex at birth, or gender identity.

* "sexual orientation" as heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality.

* "gender identity" as gender-related identity, appearance, mannerisms, or characteristics, regardless of the individual's designated sex at birth.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

We all knew this was coming.

And. Here. We. Go.


HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) — The families of three female high school runners filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday seeking to block transgender athletes in Connecticut from participating in girls sports.

Selina Soule, a senior at Glastonbury High School, Chelsea Mitchell, a senior at Canton High School and Alanna Smith, a sophomore at Danbury High School are represented by the conservative nonprofit organization Alliance Defending Freedom. They argue that allowing athletes with male anatomy to compete has deprived them of track titles and scholarship opportunities.

“Mentally and physically, we know the outcome before the race even starts,” said Smith, who is the daughter of former Major League pitcher Lee Smith. “That biological unfairness doesn’t go away because of what someone believes about gender identity. All girls deserve the chance to compete on a level playing field.”

The lawsuit was filed against the Connecticut Association of Schools-Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference and the boards of education in Bloomfield, Cromwell, Glastonbury, Canton and Danbury.

“Forcing girls to be spectators in their own sports is completely at odds with Title IX, a federal law designed to create equal opportunities for women in education and athletics,” attorney Christiana Holcomb said. “Connecticut’s policy violates that law and reverses nearly 50 years of advances for women.”

The Connecticut Association of Schools-Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference says its policy follows a state anti-discrimination law that says students must be treated in school by the gender with which they identify and the group believes the policy is “appropriate under both state and federal law.”

The lawsuit follows a Title IX complaint filed last June by the girls’ families and the Alliance Defending Freedom with the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights, which is investigating the policy.

The lawsuit centers on two transgender sprinters, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, who have frequently outperformed their cisgender competitors.

The two seniors have combined to win 15 girls state indoor or outdoor championship races since 2017, according to the lawsuit.

The three plaintiffs have competed directly against them, almost always losing to Miller and usually behind Yearwood. Mitchell finished third in the 2019 state championship in the girls 55-meter indoor track competition behind Miller and Yearwood.

“Our dream is not to come in second or third place, but to win fair and square,” Mitchell said. “All we’re asking for is a fair chance.”

Yearwood, a senior at Cromwell High School, and Miller, a senior at Bloomfield High School, issued statements vehemently defending their right to run in girls events.

“I have faced discrimination in every aspect of my life and I no longer want to remain silent,” Miller said. “I am a girl and I am a runner. I participate in athletics just like my peers to excel, find community, and meaning in my life. It is both unfair and painful that my victories have to be attacked and my hard work ignored.”

Yearwood said she also is a girl and has been hurt by the efforts to “tear down my successes.”

“I will never stop being me!” she said in her statement. “I will never stop running! I hope that the next generation of trans youth doesn’t have to fight the fights that I have. I hope they can be celebrated when they succeed not demonized. For the next generation, I run for you!”

The American Civil Liberties Union said it will represent the transgender teens and defend the Connecticut policy in court. Attorney Chase Strangio, deputy director for Trans Justice with the ACLU LGBT & HIV Project, said transgender girls also are protected by Title IX.

“The idea that the law only protects the individuals with XX chromosomes as compared to individuals with XY chromosomes is found nowhere in the legislative history of Title IX, in any implementing regulation or in any other aspect of the interpretation of Title IX over the last 50 years by the courts,” he said.

The attorneys for Alliance Defending Freedom is asking the court to prevent the transgender girls from competing while the lawsuit moves forward. No hearing date on that request had been scheduled Wednesday, the day before the state’s indoor track championships begin.

Connecticut is one of 17 states that allowed transgender high school athletes to compete without restrictions in 2019, according to Transathlete.com, which tracks state policies in high school sports across the country. Eight states had restrictions that make it difficult for transgender athletes to compete while in school, such requiring athletes to compete under the gender on their birth certificate, or allowing them to participate only after going through sex reassignment procedures or hormone therapies, according to Transathlete.

Yearwood and Miller have said they are still in the process of transitioning but have declined to provide details.



https://apnews.com/8fd300537131153cc44e0cf2ade3244b

Damn, the ACLU has gone down the tubes. These freaks are NOT real girls.

 

[BEER]

we have a very quiet battle going on here in Edmonton as I have been informed.

Quiet because the organization trying to deal with it and find a solution is one of the biggest LGBTQ supporters in the city, which is the YMCA. You all would know the name via the Village People song YMCA, which has been a gay (LGBTQ) friendly gym/organization long before it was trendy to be so.

We have a trans M/F who is not transitioning or taking hormones and identifies as a lesbian, and dresses female (if that is ok to say, lol) who insists on using the female change room which almost always includes mothers and daughters. So they are just 'declared' trans but are taking no other steps.

How much of this next part is true or just rhetoric or demonization to try and get them driven out, i do not know but the reports are that while they do not walk around naked they do get naked in front of their locker when changing. And more, that some other people have cited instances of this person showing signs of physical arousal while walking around the changeroom with only a towel wrapped around them which is countered with the argument 'so what, all lesbians get aroused, and because my body parts show it differently I should not be condemned'.

I've been told solutions such as a voluntary 'all gender change room' have been proposed which anyone can voluntarily use have been rejected if they make it mandatory for a trans person to use it. Meaning 'fine, create that option but if i want to use the other ones I shall not be prohibited'.

I've also been told what they seem to be moving to is a 'family only (parents with kids)' change room which won't make instances like this impossible but will make it much more difficult but that just gives one group (parents with kids) a safe space. It does nothing for the rest of the women, and it is actually lesbian women who are fighting this the most. It is lesbian women who seem to be the focus of most trans M/F ire as they want to force lesbian women to accept and f*ck them, despite the male equipment, and are outing them as phobic and discriminatory for not doing so.

Lesbian women, by far, are the group most challenged by this as they have had so few safe spaces they have been able to carve out historically and trans M/F want into those spaces the most.

You have Vancouver cases being fought by trans M/F activists who demands access to the battered women's shelters and feels if is discrimination by the women in those facilities who do not want to be left alone with them.

City shelters are being stripped of gov't funding in an 'allow them in... or else' mandate.

Canada's oldest rape crisis centre stripped of city funding for refusing to accept trans women

I've seen stories like this, and they are atrocious.

Lesbians are leading the LGB movement, and want to keep women's spaces exclusive to biological women and I accept that.

I've said in previous threads that I have no issue with trans people using the restrooms they choose. The vast majority of them have been for decades with no problems. I don't give a shit about someone's genitals when I'm dropping a steamer at Wawa.

That said, if women are uniting and saying "no", I can't and won't oppose them. But for equal rights purposes, which I believe in, bathrooms will need to be constructed for trans people. If trans women are excluded from women's spaces, they will need their own spaces. Same for trans men (but dudes literally do not care, as far as I can tell, and these stories/issues are rarely about trans men).

 

[BEER]

I think its implicit by change of definition in the federal code. The Equality Act is also far larger than some tranny rights bill, let's not have folks believing sexual orientation is actually a protected class in the United States. Unlike the majority of western nations who passed these kind of bills decades ago, the transgender stuff has just been hitched to it here.

The Equality Act is a bill in the United States Congress, that if passed, would amend the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity in employment, housing, public accommodations, public education, federal funding, credit, and the jury system.

The Equality Act expands the categories of "public accommodations" to include places or establishments that provide goods, services or programs. It prohibits "establishment" from being construed to be limited to a physical facility or place. It also updates the definitions of three terms:

* "sex" to include biological sex at birth, or gender identity.

* "sexual orientation" as heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality.

* "gender identity" as gender-related identity, appearance, mannerisms, or characteristics, regardless of the individual's designated sex at birth.

The update to the federal meaning of "sex" to include "gender identity" is to close a loophole that would allow healthcare professionals to deny care to trans individuals, who often have their own medical needs. This is because health care providers only currently differentiate between male and female. The vast majority of medical care may be based on that binary, but the individual needs of a trans patient (hormones, surgeries, even therapy) necessitates a legal definition that protects them from medical discrimination.

 

[TheComebackKid]

America messed up by acccepting the concept of "trans" to begin with. You can't have "transgenders" without having a bunch of silly shit like this stemming from it.

The answer is for society to reject the entire concept of trans altogether.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Good you're one of the sane ones.

If you get out and talk to real people, you'll find there are more of us than there are of them on the left. Granted, the vocal minority controls the media and has a lot of people shook.