Social Is "Woke" going too far?

[I Am Legion]

But James Bond's whiteness isn't an essential part of his character. But his gender, heterosexuality, age, nationality, elegance, all are, so to keep all these qualities and change his race would be fine. Especially since black Brits have been a sizable part of the English population for the last several decades.

Idris Elba as James Bond would have been great.

Elba would be my pick for almost anything, although he is too old at this point. He is amazing in everything. Although I will disagree at just making Bond black. Bond is white, like Shaft is black. Like Blade is black. His "whiteness" is very much a part of who he is as he is often undercover in elite crowds where he needs to use his "privilege". What they COULD do is create a new 00 and make that person whatever race they wanted. They tested the waters with a black actress, and she bombed. Elba could have succeeded 10 years ago in my opinion.

 

[badascan]

Woke isolates itself so let it be... When there was a push to normalize it via propaganda it had more weight but it was always false and would inevitably fail, or better, it exposes anyone or anything that promotes it to be written off as confused or damaged herd members and tools...

 

[Source]

The right "hijacked" the word? The word was originally used by right wing conspiracy theorists, probably originating from The Matrix to signify people who chose to wake up from the Matrix. The left were the ones who hijacked the word and associated it with extreme progressivism.

This is categorically false and proves the point @ferrisjso was trying to make in the post you quoted. The first modern uses of the term woke in print all reference an essay posted in the New York Times in 1962 by William Melvin Kelly called “If you’re woke, you dig it”.

 

[Scheme]

This is categorically false and proves the point @ferrisjso was trying to make in the post you quoted. The first modern uses of the term woke in print all reference an essay posted in the New York Times in 1962 by William Melvin Kelly called “If you’re woke, you dig it”.

People have been saying terms like wake up or to become awakened in politics for centuries, maybe even millennia. The colloquial usage in the Internet age was originally by conspiracy theorists. Most people's exposure to the word in the early Internet was with association to conspiracy theories. Maybe the new leftists borrowed it from 60s black activists, doesn't really matter either way as it's mostly semantic. Feel free to respond to my other posts which actually address the issue at hand.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Wokeness has been added to the historical trash pile along with Mao’s Cultural Revolution, Stalin’s show trials and Pol Pot’s killing fields. A civilized and sane society should ensure that every measure is taken to make sure it remains there.

 

[Source]

People have been saying terms like wake up or to become awakened in politics for centuries, maybe even millennia. The colloquial usage in the Internet age was originally by conspiracy theorists. Most people's exposure to the word in the early Internet was with association to conspiracy theories. Maybe the new leftists borrowed it from 60s black activists, doesn't really matter either way as it's mostly semantic. Feel free to respond to my other posts which actually address the issue at hand.

No, you specifically said it was originally used by right wing CTers and not hijacked by the right. This was provably false and you’re now admitting to as much. When you say things that are completely false don’t be surprised when you get called out for it.

 

[djacobox372]

I just came back from a friends place. Topic of choice today was "woke" movies. Now even though I agreed with much of what was said, I began to think to myself....

What would make people happy when it came to roles that people played?

For example. The movie Wicked came out with a pretty diverse cast. I believe one of the witches is portrayed by a person of color who is also lesbian. The hate was strong. Now....even though I would probably never watch this, I began to question some of the backlash. I mean, shes playing a green witch...the supposed wicked one no less. So...wtf is the big deal? Id kinda understand if the lesbian black chick was playing the good witch...the right would lose their minds. This however left me scratching my head.

It seems nowadays, anytime a person of color, lgbtq, a woman or God forbid, all of the above gets a lead role, its woke. Wtf defines woke now? Its confusing. I thought it was people that specifically tried to make films confronting certain social issues. Could be a movie about a female black detective....woke.

Some of it I get it....i dont want the message smeared in my face with political or social commentary. Meanwhile, im left scratching my head sometimes thinking why people are so pissed at a specific movie.

Odd times.

You're perfectly describing the problem with DEI hiring... it causes resentment that can result in people who are perfectly qualified for a role to be not taken seriously.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Elba would be my pick for almost anything, although he is too old at this point. He is amazing in everything. Although I will disagree at just making Bond black. Bond is white, like Shaft is black. Like Blade is black. His "whiteness" is very much a part of who he is as he is often undercover in elite crowds where he needs to use his "privilege". What they COULD do is create a new 00 and make that person whatever race they wanted. They tested the waters with a black actress, and she bombed. Elba could have succeeded 10 years ago in my opinion.

A black James Bond in the 1960s would have been unrealistic, that's true. But there are certainly a few black people in 21st century, posh English spaces (thanks, wokeism!) so a black James Bond in, say, the late 2000s would not have been out of place.

He had the look, the elegance, the name/face recognition.

I do agree that he's too old now. Can't really think of anyone that could do it now.

 

[Scerpi]

End of Thread... lol

Don't want to watch it?... then don't watch it

You're forgetting that they feel entitled to have things they think they might like made exactly how they like them.

Both sides of this dumb argument. If they start making more movies/tv/video games that you don't like.... Do something else with your time.

Agreed...

I am curious how the next Assassin's Creed will be recieved.

Fans of the series have been clamouring for a game set in Feudal Japan.... Then they shoe horn in Black lead character.

Obviously, the backlash was immediate. Especially from guess where... Japan. lol... They finally get their game and they make the main character non-Japanese. This isn't about the main character being black for them... They'd be just as angry if the lead character was white.

Either way... Ubisoft delayed the game and issued an apology. But didn't directly address the issue that caused the backlash... lol. But it's implied

Assassin’s Creed Shadows Team Issues Apology to Japanese Fans for Marketing That Has ‘Caused Concern’​

"Based on the constructive criticism we have received, we will continue our efforts until we put this game into your hands – and beyond."​

Assassin’s Creed Shadows Team Issues Apology to Japanese Fans for Marketing That Has ‘Caused Concern’ - IGN

The Ubisoft development team working on Assassin’s Creed Shadows has posted a public message to Japanese fans, which explains the project’s stance on historical authenticity and also apologises for promotional materials that “have caused concern” among the community.

www.ign.com

I'll wait and see... I enjoy the Assassin's Creed games. And honestly, this could be a complete non-issue if the game is good. But obviously I'm not invested in Japanese History... lol

But what a complete marketing failure for Ubisoft not understanding how most Japanese gamers would react. I mean to massively delay the game and refund Pre-orders?

Yikes...

Assassin's Creed Shadows Hit With Big Release Date Delay, Pre-Orders Refunded​

https://gamerant.com/assassins-creed-shadows-release-date-delay/

 

[Scerpi]

A black James Bond in the 1960s would have been unrealistic, that's true. But there are certainly a few black people in 21st century, posh English spaces (thanks, wokeism!) so a black James Bond in, say, the late 2000s would not have been out of place.

He had the look, the elegance, the name/face recognition.

I do agree that he's too old now. Can't really think of anyone that could do it now.

He would have been fantastic... and completely believable as an awesome secret agent and massive womanizer

I would want to see this movie

 

[Scheme]

No, you specifically said it was originally used by right wing CTers and not hijacked by the right. This was provably false and you’re now admitting to as much. When you say things that are completely false don’t be surprised when you get called out for it.

It's not completely false at all. The conspiracy right used to use the word as well, separated from the black activist meaning. As in, they had an original meaning to the word. Perhaps you should reread my post. I stated the right had originally used it for conspiracy theories. Originally doesn't always mean first, it can also mean the usage is novel. Here let Google help you:

1.
from or in the beginning; at first.
"potatoes originally came from South America"
Similar:
at first
first
in/at the beginning
to begin with
initially
in the first place
at the start
at the outset
in the first instance
from day one
from the word go
2.
in a novel and inventive way.
"suggestions so originally and persuasively outline

Notice that some words can have multiple meanings?

And again, people have used the word in many political contexts for centuries. I didn't claim that 'black activists hijacked it' like the original poster.

 

[Source]

I do not care when they change the race or ethnicity of a fictional character. I always question the motives of people that take exception to it. I find it no different than when they change the time period of the original work. I understand why they are doling it just doesn’t matter to me. I do find it lazy and unoriginal though.

 

[TheGreatA]

The so-called "woke era" is pretty much over in my view. The big entertainment companies are pulling out their support of this stuff because of the enormous financial losses they've accumulated as a result of it.

The dudes who have made a good living out of pointing out "wokeness" in movies or video games or whatever, will still continue to try to make a living out of it, but their act will seem more and more hollow as they pretend to be outraged about stuff that seems pretty casual and not politically motivated to the average viewer.

People will still be trigger happy to call out any implied "wokeness" for a year or two, just because of how obnoxiously and heavy-handedly it was being shoved down people's throats, year after year, but after that it'll probably go away and people will start behaving normal again, no longer losing their shit over every race-swapped character or LGBT person.

 

[TheGreatA]

He would have been fantastic... and completely believable as an awesome secret agent and massive womanizer

I would want to see this movie

Honestly I think Elba had enough charisma and acting chops to pull off an original role that didn't necessarily even need to be James Bond. Something like Jason Bourne or John Wick, maybe with more acting and less explosions since Elba isn't as limited of an actor. It has been a little disappointing to see that he hasn't been offered too many roles that he could really sink his teeth into. I've tried to keep up with whatever he does ever since The Wire came out.

 

[avenue94]

Back when media got the best person for the role, no one cared if a person was black or not.

What years was this? Media has never been a pure meritocracy.

 

[Scheme]

What years was this? Media has never been a pure meritocracy.

I will agree with you there, it's always been a who knows who type of game controlled by the people running media, saying the wrong things got people in trouble often. I should've stated it was more of a meritocracy in some dimensions and less in others. Like how speaking out against Christianity (or other religions) was a career-ender for a lot of people in Hollywood in the past, despite how well they acted.

I had hoped people had learned from those days and just gone straight to who was the best in the role, rather than just replacing the qualifiers and disqualifiers of who can work in media.

 

[avenue94]

I will agree with you there, it's always been a who knows who type of game controlled by the people running media, saying the wrong things got people in trouble often. I should've stated it was more of a meritocracy in some dimensions and less in others. Like how speaking out against Christianity (or other religions) was a career-ender for a lot of people in Hollywood in the past, despite how well they acted.

I had hoped people had learned from those days and just gone straight to who was the best in the role, rather than just replacing the qualifiers and disqualifiers of who can work in media.

Ok, so when was this time where it was more of a meritocracy? The entertainment industry is as meritocratic as it's ever been between social media and streaming and a reduction in discrimination that historically meant you pretty much had to be white or white passing in order to act.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Man children legit throw a temper-tantrum if a female video game character in a post-apocalyptic game isn't hot enough for them. It's loony. Just try to ignore them and consume whatever entertainment you like without them yapping in your ear about bullshit.

Women do the same thing if there's an adaptation of some romance novel and they don't think he guy is hot enough. You just don't hear about it because women are allowed to have opinions on that and men are not.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Both sides of this dumb argument. If they start making more movies/tv/video games that you don't like.... Do something else with your time.

100%.

I used to go to the movies all the time and buy AAA video games. I don't do either any more.

The people making those things told me in no uncertain terms that they didn't want me as a customer, so I stopped buying their products.

Simple as that.

However that doesn't mean I have somehow forfeited the right to talk about these things.

 

[Helden]

I like to know what they F do they do for a living to complain all the time? My other social media account that's all I see crazy. Like they just stay on their phone all day an bitch. Then they wonder why billionaires think they are not productive enough lol.

Right on queue the usual suspects flood the thread to bitch about wokeness