BJJ is bjj the same thing as kosen judo

wha'ts left of kosen judo is the rules left in high school judo as it's practice in japan. longer on the ground, less restarts or standing back up etc.
 
lts5025 said:
It didn't. Kano and Mifune had to muscle their way through all those judo techniques. Good thing Helio took the brute force out of juji-gatame and totally revolutionized it by creating the armbar.
Click to expand...

Haha exactly. Whenever I hear the "helio introduced leverage bla bla bla" claim I always wonder which techniques? And how exactly did they change? I love doing GJJ/BJJ but when I hear the leverage claims I'm all like :O
 
JudokaUK said:
How is this debate still going on?

Kōsen 高専 is just an abbreviation of Kotosenmongakko 高等専門学校. A varisty competition between the Imperial Japanese universities.

Its not this magical mystical style of Judo, kept secret from the world. Anymore than Eton Fives is a secret magical form of tennis.

The Kotosenmongakko 高等専門学校 tournament still exists and is still conducted between the Imperial Universities in Japan.

Pretty much any white westerner claiming to teach 'Kosen Judo' is blowing smoke up your arse. As you can't teach an inter-university competition.

That's like a Rugby or Rowing coach claiming they only teach Oxbridge Varsity Rugby/Rowing.

Now can we all stop being silly and go back to training please.
Click to expand...
The problem is, judoka are trying to "cash in" on the popularity of BJJ by teaching newaza and calling it "kosen judo".

They bring out "kosen judo" competitions which are basically various rulesets based on IJF cometition rules but allowing more newaza time.

AFAIK, there is no unified "kosen judo" ruleset, only whatever the event organiser decides on at the time and call it "kosen judo".
 
:D
azjudoboxer** said:
No there not the same, the two are probabyl the closest to each other of any of the grappling arts around today. Kosen judo as it's practiced today (which is what I do) is the closest to the way Judo was originally intended before the shift to international sport happened
Click to expand...

as this is what art i train i agree!
 
Rod1 said:
Kosen judo was extremely technical, modern judo groundwork is less technical but requires more perfection of technique and fast thinking.

90% of the things you do in BJJ wouldnt work in judo newaza, because there is time limits and different points of entry.

How much do BJJers train to open a turtle, get a submission or turn within a small time frame? very few, BJJ focus on guard passing and then moving into a position where a sub can be worked while still controlling the opponent.

But what happens when you dont have to pass guard to win? like in MMA? the whole importance of BJJ diminishes as opposed to the importance of other sports that also deal with groundwork.
Click to expand...

you make it sound so simply.. there is a reason why you have to pass guard in bjj... not a good place to hang around, even in MMA, while facing a guy with a great guard... bjj point system is strongly based on a fight scenario, pass guard, side control to mount, that is the progression you are expected to do in a fight... its much easir to mount from side control, and to control your opponent... and excusme, but judo rules are waaaay less realistic and usefull in a MMA context than jj, or even wrestling.. all grappling arts have to be adapted, but certanly being an expert on playing half dead as soon as the fight touches the ground is NOT a very useful technique...
 
BJJ_Rage said:
you make it sound so simply.. there is a reason why you have to pass guard in bjj... not a good place to hang around, even in MMA
Click to expand...

yet it happens all the time with little to no consequence.
 
stl_81_99 said:
This is how Rickson Gracie, son of Helio Gracie and #1 BJJ practioner in the world, understands the origins and evolution of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu:

"Jiu-Jitsu, which means gentle art is the oldest form of martial art. It originated in India more than 2000 years before Christ. It was created by monks who could not use any type of weapons to defend their lives against barbarian attacks. It spread through China, and eventually took root and was elaborated on in Japan becoming the first martial art style. The samurai clans in Japan adopted Jiu-Jitsu as their own traditional style to defeat an opponent regardless if the situation was striking, throwing or grappling. With the passing years, they split the techniques and developed other martial arts styles, such as judo, akido, karate, etc.

In 1914, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu champion Esai Maeda migrated to Brazil, where he was instrumental in establishing a Japanese immigrant community. His efforts were aided by Gast
Click to expand...
 
fourfif said:
yet it happens all the time with little to no consequence.
Click to expand...

may be you didnt get to read the part where I said GREAT guard, bjj black =/= great guard automatically


there is a reason even the most dominant wrestlers avoid some guards, just as they can hang all night long in some others... did you see Gil fucking laying a beating to aoki from inside his guard? did you see mark munhoz doing it to maia? sonnen thought it was a good idea from day one, that didnt work out so well for him...hell even fucking brock knew should not stayed on mirs guard... the reason why wrestlers are so dominant is because they know where and who to fuck with, not because they are dumbasses trying to prove something... so no, it doesnt happen all the time with little to no consecuence, actually, it happens very rarely.
 
judogido said:
Kano developed judo as a non-leverage, strength-based martial art. Ever seen pics of Kano-sensei? Dude was a BEAST. Neck as thick as a bull's and thighs the size of most men's torsos. ... :icon_neut
Click to expand...

He was very proud of his calfs
 
You're dumb.

That being said, if it were Kosen Judo, people would call it Kosen Judo. However, it's not, so it's not.

And actually, Maeda was not a Kosen Judoka. He was a direct student of Dr. Jigoro Kano. Meaning that while he may have later moved on to Kosen Judo, although I'm not quite sure, what he learned and was a proponent of was Kano Jujitsu. No, I'm not saying Maeda was a jujitsuka either, that's just what Judo was called before it was organized into what we now know of today as Kodokan Judo.

However, even if everything I said was complete bull sh*t, which I don't think it is, whatever the Gracies were taught, they changed it enough for it to be considered an entirely different art by the general populace, clearly as one is identified distinctly as BJJ and the other is identified distinctly of Kosen Judo.
 
td82394 said:
You're dumb.

That being said, if it were Kosen Judo, people would call it Kosen Judo. However, it's not, so it's not.

And actually, Maeda was not a Kosen Judoka. He was a direct student of Dr. Jigoro Kano. Meaning that while he may have later moved on to Kosen Judo, although I'm not quite sure, what he learned and was a proponent of was Kano Jujitsu. No, I'm not saying Maeda was a jujitsuka either, that's just what Judo was called before it was organized into what we now know of today as Kodokan Judo.

However, even if everything I said was complete bull sh*t, which I don't think it is, whatever the Gracies were taught, they changed it enough for it to be considered an entirely different art by the general populace, clearly as one is identified distinctly as BJJ and the other is identified distinctly of Kosen Judo.
Click to expand...

No he wasn't
 
This thread is so fresh! No repetitive circular arguments here!

How about this: Who are hotter, female judoka or female BJJers?

Ronda-Rousey.jpg


kyra-gracie-beach.jpg
 
I have to say Kyra is hotter than Rhonda. That's not really fair, though, some lady Judokas get pretty spicy.
 
"Spicy?" I'm not familiar with that slang. What do you mean?

Also, guess who's the judoka and who's the BJJer.

x435


shoot3.jpg
 
Last edited:
lts5025 said:
It didn't. Kano and Mifune had to muscle their way through all those judo techniques. Good thing Helio took the brute force out of juji-gatame and totally revolutionized it by creating the armbar.
Click to expand...

Yeah this little guy used his huge muscles to do Judo. Give me a fukn break.
Mifune is even smaller.
Jigoro_Kano.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,280,479
Messages
58,287,581
Members
175,994
Latest member
Doomer

Share this page

Back
Top