Is BJJ effective in street fights?

[scottjoebob]

Like if someone shot in for a takedown on someone in a legitimate street fight (ignoring variables such as nearby objects, weapons, distractions, or interference) to utilize BJJ, wouldn’t eye gouging, hair pulling, and nut squeezing be an immediate factor and somewhat render the in close nature of BJJ a little useless?

I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt and would surely be an advantage over someone ignorant to BJJ, but I wonder just how effective it would be. The thread about how special forces not being able to adapt to the unified rules of MMA got me thinking of who would be more successful in a life or death situational fight.

A takedown in the street would probably make BJJ irrelevant . In vale tudo , American wrestlers would head butt the shit out of the BJJ guys .

 

[Dirge]

I boxed for years and have to say in a barfight it is probably the handiest discipline. Hard to kick, takedown etc in a crowded bar full of furniture and people. Also handy in a bar if you are fighting in groups.

Outside on a street though I'd pick wrestlers every time. There were a group of guys that trained at the gym I attended back in university that were high level collegiate wrestlers (a couple of them went to the olympics). I ended up hanging with them regularly. A top level wrestler absolutely smashes any guy that can't drop him with one punch. I watched a guy who weighed around 170 literally slam a much bigger guy on his head on pavement... Out cold.

In open spaces, good wrestlers can shoot, clinch or go for a single or double leg and put you down and keep you down. Sure a BJJ guy could probably work a sub off his back against a wrestler with zero sub training but could he do that after being lifted in the air and slammed onto pavement or concrete? Unlikely

 

[scottjoebob]

Like if someone shot in for a takedown on someone in a legitimate street fight (ignoring variables such as nearby objects, weapons, distractions, or interference) to utilize BJJ, wouldn’t eye gouging, hair pulling, and nut squeezing be an immediate factor and somewhat render the in close nature of BJJ a little useless?

I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt and would surely be an advantage over someone ignorant to BJJ, but I wonder just how effective it would be. The thread about how special forces not being able to adapt to the unified rules of MMA got me thinking of who would be more successful in a life or death situational fight.

"special forces not being able to adapt to the unified rules of MMA " . Why cant they ? Link ?

 

[Portland8242]

I boxed for years and have to say in a barfight it is probably the handiest discipline. Hard to kick, takedown etc in a crowded bar full of furniture and people. Also handy in a bar if you are fighting in groups.

Outside on a street though I'd pick wrestlers every time. There were a group of guys that trained at the gym I attended back in university that were high level collegiate wrestlers (a couple of them went to the olympics). I ended up hanging with them regularly. A top level wrestler absolutely smashes any guy that can't drop him with one punch. I watched a guy who weighed around 170 literally slam a much bigger guy on his head on pavement... Out cold.

In open spaces, good wrestlers can shoot, clinch or go for a single or double leg and put you down and keep you down. Sure a BJJ guy could probably work a sub off his back against a wrestler with zero sub training but could he do that after being lifted in the air and slammed onto pavement or concrete? Unlikely

What happens if you come across a Muay Thai blackbelt who can drop you and incapacitate you with one solid leg kick?

 

[Nilav]

Sure its great for a lot of things, but not all things.

You can prevent a takedown or take someone down. Hair grabbing and things like that wont help, the dominant position is more important. If you grab my balls when you’re mounted you will get elbowed until you get knocked out.

You have the ability to get up if you fall down, even if the attacker is on top of you.

One thing that is pretty great is that you have a pretty gentle way of defending yourself. Sometimes some drunk or crazy person attacks or are just get into peoples faces, but its so obvoiusly not dangerous enough to justify a knockout. The option of for example back mounting someone without hurting them while waiting for police is a good thing.

Also sparring helps with several things. Such as keeping calm in the fight. It also helps with the knowledge that its pretty hard to fight someone psychially bigger or stronger and might make you realise its time to leg it!

But no you shouldn’t expect to do any fancy submissions....

 

[MescalineDreams]

I boxed for years and have to say in a barfight it is probably the handiest discipline. Hard to kick, takedown etc in a crowded bar full of furniture and people. Also handy in a bar if you are fighting in groups.

Outside on a street though I'd pick wrestlers every time. There were a group of guys that trained at the gym I attended back in university that were high level collegiate wrestlers (a couple of them went to the olympics). I ended up hanging with them regularly. A top level wrestler absolutely smashes any guy that can't drop him with one punch. I watched a guy who weighed around 170 literally slam a much bigger guy on his head on pavement... Out cold.

In open spaces, good wrestlers can shoot, clinch or go for a single or double leg and put you down and keep you down. Sure a BJJ guy could probably work a sub off his back against a wrestler with zero sub training but could he do that after being lifted in the air and slammed onto pavement or concrete? Unlikely

bjj guy would sweep an untrained wrestler pretty much Instantly, they also know how to land In a way to avoid damage. Otherwise I agree.

 

[DeathStroke]

What happens if you come across a Muay Thai blackbelt who can drop you and incapacitate you with one solid leg kick?

He addressed that a little bit. Too little space in a bar.

Out in the open that might work though. I don't know where you live, so forgive my American ignorance, but it seems extremely unlikely to come across such a muay thai fighter here. Much more likely to find a wrestler, boxer, or jiujitsu guy.

Personally, I just carry a gun. Broke my spine a few years back. It'd probably hold in a streetfight but I'm not taking the chance. If someone starts swinging fists, I start slinging lead.

 

[Bartinho]

Most anything works in a street fight, if you do it right. Boxing works, wresting, Jiu-jitsu, TKD etc. It can all work. And it can all fail. BJJ is a must for street fighting. If the fight goes to the ground, what are you gunna do, ask him to let you stand up? Or use Jiu-jitsu?
Look into it bro.

 

[DeathStroke]

bjj guy would sweep an untrained wrestler pretty much Instantly, they also know how to land In a way to avoid damage. Otherwise I agree.

I humbly disagree with you. I was a mediocre wrestler through high school, and joined a jiujitsu gym between high school and college. My first few weeks i rarely got swept. Submitted from bottom? Sure. All the time. But swept? Not so much. Wrestlers tend to have decent situational awareness when it comes to being swept. Also it was my experience that jiujitsu guys really really don't like being slammed. Not scientific or anything. Just my experience.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

in a one on one situation, yes.

Kinda hard to eye gouge / pull hair when you're being controlled and pounded Into oblivion and have no means of defending.

Street fights are never 1v1 situations though typically. In that sense, Boxing and judo are far more effective.

i agree with all that, but eye gouges have their place and time

 

[JKS]

I got into it with a very high level BJJ guy....like a 5th degree BB with red stripes. After a few shoves and pushes back and forth he said to wait and he fell onto his back and said "get in my guard and I will annihilate you, you'll end up in the hospital." I didn't do it and said no thanks and the fight was over.

 

[silvasurfer5253]

Of course it’s effective. Put a street fighter vs a BJJ in a one on one, all things equal, the BJJ will beat the absolute shit out of them. Top side jujitsu is the stuff of nightmares for the untrained.

That being side, Judo and Japanese Jujitsu are more geared towards a street fight. Tougher styles, that don’t have the same emphasis on blood chokes.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Imagine getting your eye gouged or your nuts grabbed and squeezed by Damian Maia or Jacare. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean they can't do it.

 

[MescalineDreams]

I humbly disagree with you. I was a mediocre wrestler through high school, and joined a jiujitsu gym between high school and college. My first few weeks i rarely got swept. Submitted from bottom? Sure. All the time. But swept? Not so much. Wrestlers tend to have decent situational awareness when it comes to being swept. Also it was my experience that jiujitsu guys really really don't like being slammed. Not scientific or anything. Just my experience.

it would depend on the experience of said jiu jitsu guy I suppose.

In a jiu jitsu gym most of the time they'll be trying to work from their backs so that's probably not the best example.

In a street fight situation there would be a heavy emphasis on manipulating their base and sweeping them Immediately as opposed to going for any sort of submission. A wrestler might have a decent base / balance..but without any jiu jitsu experience, they're vulnerable to manipulation of equilibrium and a subsequent sweep.

 

[dirtroller]

Why do people always mention eye gouging and hair pulling as if the BJJ guy can't do that stuff too?

Also, assuming physical variables are somewhat even, no untrained fool is going to double leg and control a skilled BJJ guy.

 

[Evenflow80]

I always think this is one the dumbest questions ever, even if, a long time ago , I used to ask it myself, almost rhetorically.

The very first UFCs proved its effectiveness. Everything was allowed back then, yet the 170lb Royce Gracie beat all of them. I'm not sure what difference there was between UFC 1-3 from a street fight other than the likely possibility of the guy you are mauling having buddies, at which case the best Martial art you can use is running.

I mean, even if you dont want to use the first UFCs as concrete proof of the effectiveness of BJJ (for whatever reason), just think about it for a bit: you go in day in and day out, spend hours upon hours on the mat learning how to control your body to immobilize someone else's, and you expect that, somehow, to not translate well against an untrained opponent? It defies logic.

Granted, some things I hesitate to do in a real fight: I suck at any sort of take downs and I will be the first to admit that modern BJJ is sorely deficient in that arena, and without taking it to the ground, BJJ is useless. Also, I love playing guard in sport BJJ but would be hesitant to do so in a fight unless the guy is about my size, and even then all I would go for is trapping arm into a triangle. That or the most basic sweep which I guarantee you would send any untrained person flying.

The only people who ask this question are, not surprisingly, those that don't train. Sport BJJ is full of moves that would get you killed if you used in a real fight (briembolos are on top of that list), but the fundamental basics, those that you should have a firm grasp of by blue belt, will all demolish any untrained opponent you run into

 

[L.T.]

You better make sure it's 1 on 1, you are bigger than your opponent, and
unless youre a competing, high level black belt guard player you need to stay on top. BJJ alone in a streetfight? From personal experience, No. Keep in your back pocket? Fuck yeah.

Here is the problem. Top BJJ schools do not teach self-defense. We do not talk about different scenarios, philosophy, the streets, nothing. Teacher takes his star pupil, shows you a move, you drill it for 20 minutes. Then you spar 5 minute rounds with all different levels for 40 minutes. It is sport BJJ that is being taught, meant for padded mats. I was deep into my blue before I realized I hadn't learned a single fucking thing that would make me ready to control someone and be mindful of my environment in a street fight.

Self-defense is not being taught. Schools just want to win tournaments. It sucks. The way the art is being taught today, this is a murky question without a real answer.

 

[Evenflow80]

I boxed for years and have to say in a barfight it is probably the handiest discipline. Hard to kick, takedown etc in a crowded bar full of furniture and people. Also handy in a bar if you are fighting in groups.

Outside on a street though I'd pick wrestlers every time. There were a group of guys that trained at the gym I attended back in university that were high level collegiate wrestlers (a couple of them went to the olympics). I ended up hanging with them regularly. A top level wrestler absolutely smashes any guy that can't drop him with one punch. I watched a guy who weighed around 170 literally slam a much bigger guy on his head on pavement... Out cold.

In open spaces, good wrestlers can shoot, clinch or go for a single or double leg and put you down and keep you down. Sure a BJJ guy could probably work a sub off his back against a wrestler with zero sub training but could he do that after being lifted in the air and slammed onto pavement or concrete? Unlikely

I dont know what you are talking about to be honest. We get college wrestlers all the time, and yes they are way, way way better grapplers than the standard white belt that walks in, but they are just as clueless as anyone when their arm gets trapped or when they are on their backs.

Generally speaking, I avoid pulling guard with them, and focus on submissions and taking the back. They do have explosiveness that others lack though, thats for sure. We have this high level college wrestler who is a blue belt and the guy can explode out of the worst positions, the thing is though, we all know his tell tale signs when he is gearing up for it, and brace accordingly.

I dont understand this fetishizing of wrestling to be honest. Its a wonderful skill to have, but hardly better than BJJ by any means.

 

[Dirge]

I dont know what you are talking about to be honest. We get college wrestlers all the time, and yes they are way, way way better grapplers than the standard white belt that walks in, but they are just as clueless as anyone when their arm gets trapped or when they are on their backs.

Generally speaking, I avoid pulling guard with them, and focus on submissions and taking the back. They do have explosiveness that others lack though, thats for sure. We have this high level college wrestler who is a blue belt and the guy can explode out of the worst positions, the thing is though, we all know his tell tale signs when he is gearing up for it, and brace accordingly.

I dont understand this fetishizing of wrestling to be honest. Its a wonderful skill to have, but hardly better than BJJ by any means.

? I was referring to the effectiveness of wrestling in a streetfight based on my experiences. I have no wrestling background personally but saw guys getting dropped on pavement and it was pretty effective.

 

[Dirge]

What happens if you come across a Muay Thai blackbelt who can drop you and incapacitate you with one solid leg kick?

I mentioned being dropped with one punch, one kick would also apply accordingly. Mind you back in the 90's in Toronto there were very few dojo's. lots of boxing and wrestling though.