How far can garry tonon go in the UFC

JustOnce said:
But it was very shocking to see what Hermansson did to Jacare. Probably more shocking that Jacare got his arm broke by the other guy too.

I also suppose time is undefeated, either way
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I think there is a shared expectation that elite skill-set fighters will always remain elite at that particular skill no matter their age/injuries/focus/etc., but we've seen time and time again legendary grapplers and strikers eventually focus on other aspects of their game more, get old and injured, and just become ripe for younger aggressive fighters catch them with what they used to be the best in the world at.

If you fight long enough you will eventually degrade and become a name for new fighters to build a career off of beating you, but it still doesn't mean that Hermansson or Muniz were or ever will be the level of grappler that Jacare was at his peak.
 
Cameron said:
That being said I think he should stay in One for a while and really cut his teeth before making the transition to the UFC. So he can truly develop as an overall Martial Artist.
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Who's really left for him at featherweight in ONE though? He'll be 7-0 in ONE assuming he beats Le, having beaten some of the division's best already in Yoshiki Nakahara and Koyomi Matsushima. Really the only guys left for him are Thanh Le, Kai Tang, Martin Nguyen (who is coming off a loss), and Jae Woong Kim (who got KO'ed by Matsushima).
 
kenetics said:
Gordon would do much worse because his athletism is pretty low.
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Perhaps, I was just talking about how important other facets of their games are to have success, but figured I'd give a special lil shout out to possible no gi goat.
 
TheMMAnalyst said:
I think there is a shared expectation that elite skill-set fighters will always remain elite at that particular skill no matter their age/injuries/focus/etc., but we've seen time and time again legendary grapplers and strikers eventually focus on other aspects of their game more, get old and injured, and just become ripe for younger aggressive fighters catch them with what they used to be the best in the world at.

If you fight long enough you will eventually degrade and become a name for new fighters to build a career off of beating you, but it still doesn't mean that Hermansson or Muniz were or ever will be the level of grappler that Jacare was at his peak.
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Yeah Fedor never grapples anymore too.

Time's a bitch, who knew Jacare out of all people would have his arm broke? Crazy
 
JustOnce said:
Even Roger got shut down by Tim Kennedy. So in this day and age, it really depends on your entire skill set.

Even Marcelo couldn't submit the guy in his debut.

The only guy who might be able to go far regardless might be Gordon Ryan, but I doubt that.
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Assuming he can get pass USADA. He may be one of those guys that gets signed by the UFC but never makes his debut.
 
EndlessCritic said:
Who's really left for him at featherweight in ONE though? He'll be 7-0 in ONE assuming he beats Le, having beaten some of the division's best already in Yoshiki Nakahara and Koyomi Matsushima. Really the only guys left for him are Thanh Le, Kai Tang, Martin Nguyen (who is coming off a loss), and Jae Woong Kim (who got KO'ed by Matsushima).
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I'd expect him to fight 1 or 2 of those guys and then maybe superfight with christian lee/OK? His bjj weight division was around 77 kg.

Honestly, I'm not sure if he'll go to the ufc after he's done with one. He's already cut his teeth in mma and he'd probably make more focusing on his academy
 
hswrestler said:
He's a current one fc featherweight fighting for the championship against thanh le on december 6th. He's been on a 6-0 win streak since heading to one fc finishing all his opponents except for Koyomi Matsushima, a quality win which he won by UD. Pretty impressive considering many top UFC guys haven't been as successful as him in one.

Outside of mma he's won bronze in ADCC, 2 golds in no gis , bronze in absolute for no go, gold for absolute in pans as well as numerous EBIs and superfights. He'd definitely have the most credentials in bjj/grappling in the division.

Here is a clip of his striking
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He's a problem for the division for sure, in my opinion. He has all the grappling Ryan Hall has (better, I feel), but with solid wrestling and clean striking. 145 is a very striking-heavy division at the top with few exceptional grapplers (solid grappling for sure, but Ortega is the only one in the top 10 whom I'd consider elite at the moment). Stylitically, I think he could be a big challenge.
 
kenetics said:
Gordon would do much worse because his athletism is pretty low.
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And he'd get usada'd quick. Better to stay in one where chatri talks about honor and budo but turns a blind eye to the stuff his fighters do or say (mainly the westerners')
 
EndlessCritic said:
Who's really left for him at featherweight in ONE though? He'll be 7-0 in ONE assuming he beats Le, having beaten some of the division's best already in Yoshiki Nakahara and Koyomi Matsushima. Really the only guys left for him are Thanh Le, Kai Tang, Martin Nguyen (who is coming off a loss), and Jae Woong Kim (who got KO'ed by Matsushima).
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You're not wrong but I just think if he sticks around gets 2 or 3 defenses he will be in a much better bargaining position if he wants to come to the UFC.
 
He may need extended testing pool time, based upon his current fighting climate in WUSADA
 
Top 5 max imo but he still has time to develop so that can change
 
I’m not sure. But he always goes for the finish and always entertaining from no gi to mma

I think he over uses feints movements and fakes from nervous energy but win or lose I’m a fan of that guy.
 
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hswrestler said:
He's a current one fc featherweight fighting for the championship against thanh le on december 6th. He's been on a 6-0 win streak since heading to one fc finishing all his opponents except for Koyomi Matsushima, a quality win which he won by UD. Pretty impressive considering many top UFC guys haven't been as successful as him in one.

Outside of mma he's won bronze in ADCC, 2 golds in no gis , bronze in absolute for no go, gold for absolute in pans as well as numerous EBIs and superfights. He'd definitely have the most credentials in bjj/grappling in the division.

Here is a clip of his striking
Click to expand...


No where..hed have to come off the sauce...

Once that happens he aint all that special


Edit ..i meant a different BJJ juice monkey...
 
JustOnce said:
Even Roger got shut down by Tim Kennedy. So in this day and age, it really depends on your entire skill set.

Even Marcelo couldn't submit the guy in his debut.

The only guy who might be able to go far regardless might be Gordon Ryan, but I doubt that.
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I have a strange feeling that when Gordon gets cracked, he's not going to like it and never really get too involved in MMA.

He makes enough $ from grappling I think to continue doing that for the rest of his career and not risk getting beat up.
 
kenetics said:
Gordon would do much worse because his athletism is pretty low.
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Yeah? Hes so unathketic that no human has a comparable record of winning in no gi. Let me guess Rickson or marcello or galvao is better.

well compare what they’ve achieved. And don’t forget to see who is finishing opponents.

A gi has no bearing on any grappling skill in life as most humans aren’t wearing oversized novelty shirts and pants.
 
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