International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war Megathread

[DEVILsSON]

So your evidence of Hamas being the primary factor in Gazans not leaving is...the hundreds of thousands of civilians that have repeatedly moved around Gaza during this conflict? What is your logic even.

My point is they don't have to. They control a sizeable portion of the population through sheer fear. Sure some subset of people get desperate enough and are forced to move but you're downplaying how much influence Hamas has over the area and people.

And do tell me how Hamas runs a surveillance state a la the Kremlin or China. Last I checked Israel runs telco in the region and is the one with a gigantic surveillance state since that kind of requires money and savvy Hamas doesn't have.

That wasn't my point. You mean to tell me you really thought I said the rubble in Gaza under Hamas was comparable with Chinese surveillance state?

And hint: China and the DPRK both heavily rely on controlling telco and internet in their countries, which Hamas can't do for obvious reasons.

Also you're ducking the question as usual, probably about one-third of dead Gazans were killed by Israeli forces while in safe zones. Is that a handful in your book? One-third?

I am just disappointed you're not using the 46% number. When lying it's usually best to go big or go home.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" - you know who...

Al Jazeera has time to count every death in the safe zone but couldn't be bothered to cover scores of dead in Pakistan during the pro Gaza protest after a ceasefire(so literally nothing bigger was happening to do with the conflict).

World media are so incredibly dishonest. They claim they have IDF data but zero reference as to how it was obtained. Like it was magically sent to them. If you can find explanation how "IDF's internal data" landed in the hands of journalists I look forward to reading it.

 

[SuperAlly]

That's right Hamas just rounds up their enemies and publicly executes them...great logic as always...

Do you know what it's like to be ruled by fear? Of course not, it doesn't even enter your mind living in your bubble. Do you think DPRK monitors every inch of its territories for Un's decisions to be carried out? Do you think even surveillance state like China has to monitor every inch of its land to be effective in its edicts? Do you think Kremlin has to arrest or kill literally every critic?

Being a contrarian quisling again. What a surprise

Just keeps asking absurd questions with no basis in logic

Also likes to move goalposts

You were discussing hamas stopping people moving earlier in the conflict and his reply is "at this point in the war", he tries to pull bad faith shit like this all the time

 

[SuperAlly]

All eyes on Gaza, all eyes on Hamas

 

[SuperAlly]

 

[SuperAlly]

Fucks given now? Zero.

Interesting

 

[SuperAlly]

 

[Koya]

You're such a piece of shit. Clearly I'm mocking you idiots for the double standard. Don't give a shit when civilians are getting killed, but suddenly now that Hamas is killing Palestinian militias you're all up in arms when you weren't for kids. I'm obviously not saying it's fine what Hamas is doing you retard.

Israel is specifically targeting an ethnic group and killing them with my tax dollars all while manipulating every facet of my government. I have a duty to oppose this as an American. It's not my job to speak out against every single atrocity on the planet. Why aren't you? That's such an idiotitc standard. You're just trying to excuse war crimes by Israel by saying "someone else is doing it" there for... what exactly? Now Israel has the right to commit war crimes? Fuck off.

You are completely contradicting yourself.

You conflate everything anti-Israel with anti-semitic, that's why.

Also they don't care that those specific militias were formed by Israel to act a a proxy for them...

Especially when the gang was formed by Israel to act as a proxy...

Guns, cash and American aid: Investigation reveals Israel's support for Gaza militia

The former looting gang is living in luxury thanks to aid from the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation and smuggled cash, cars and cigarettes.

news.sky.com

And from June 2024 :

From Gaza prisoner to ‘the Israeli agent’: how rise of Abu Shabab could ignite new phase of war

In email exchange, leader of clan that Israel acknowledges arming blames Hamas for war and for looting of aid trucks

www.theguardian.com

 

[Koya]

 

[Koya]

Who reported that ? What's the source ? What's the name of the journalist and what's his exact statement ?

 

[kflo]

Who reported that ? What's the source ? What's the name of the journalist and what's his exact statement ?

Lol. The rage bait king asking for a source.

 

[avenue94]

My point is they don't have to. They control a sizeable portion of the population through sheer fear. Sure some subset of people get desperate enough and are forced to move but you're downplaying how much influence Hamas has over the area and people.

How much of the population do they control through sheer fear. 20%? 10%?

That wasn't my point. You mean to tell me you really thought I said the rubble in Gaza under Hamas was comparable with Chinese surveillance state?

No you argued that the DPRK and China don't have to monitor every inch of land to instill fear in their populace, despite both countries effectively monitoring every inch of communications infrastructure and internet landscape.

My point is they don't have to. They control a sizeable portion of the population through sheer fear. Sure some subset of people get desperate enough and are forced to move but you're downplaying how much influence Hamas has over the area and people.



That wasn't my point. You mean to tell me you really thought I said the rubble in Gaza under Hamas was comparable with Chinese surveillance state?




I am just disappointed you're not using the 46% number. When lying it's usually best to go big or go home.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" - you know who...

Al Jazeera has time to count every death in the safe zone but couldn't be bothered to cover scores of dead in Pakistan during the pro Gaza protest after a ceasefire(so literally nothing bigger was happening to do with the conflict).

World media are so incredibly dishonest. They claim they have IDF data but zero reference as to how it was obtained. Like it was magically sent to them. If you can find explanation how "IDF's internal data" landed in the hands of journalists I look forward to reading it.

The IDF confirm airstrikes and by extension some death tolls in broader regions of the country.

And you mean Al Jazeera hasn't reported on this protest and directly quotes the party that organized the protests?

 

[Siver!]

Eleven killed after Israel hits bus in Gaza, Hamas-run civil defence says

The Israeli military said it had fired at a "suspicious vehicle" it said had crossed the line demarcating the area occupied by its forces.

www.bbc.co.uk

Family of 11 wiped out by the bloodthirsters

 

[Snubnoze707]

Eleven killed after Israel hits bus in Gaza, Hamas-run civil defence says

The Israeli military said it had fired at a "suspicious vehicle" it said had crossed the line demarcating the area occupied by its forces.

www.bbc.co.uk

Family of 11 wiped out by the bloodthirsters

And on queue this tragedy elicits a laugh emoji from SuperAIPAC.

This will be a normal occurrence as Palestinians go home to rubble.

They got the hostages back, now watch as the goal posts continue to shift.

 

[DEVILsSON]

How much of the population do they control through sheer fear. 20%? 10%?

Are you pulling these numbers out of thin air?

99.99999%... see I can pull numbers out of my ass too...

No you argued that the DPRK and China don't have to monitor every inch of land to instill fear in their populace, despite both countries effectively monitoring every inch of communications infrastructure and internet landscape.

No I argued despite being surveillance state and having an insane amount of troops they still don't physically control every inch of their territories. DPRK has black markets. Trade etc It doesn't mean those countries don't have a stranglehold on their people through sheer fear.

The IDF confirm airstrikes and by extension some death tolls in broader regions of the country.

They don't confirm what you pretend they do.

And you mean Al Jazeera hasn't reported on this protest and directly quotes the party that organized the protests?

Oh they have a story about it? Was it on their main page the day it happened? I know the answer.

 

[DEVILsSON]

And on queue this tragedy elicits a laugh emoji from SuperAIPAC.

This will be a normal occurrence as Palestinians go home to rubble.

They got the hostages back, now watch as the goal posts continue to shift.

I think the goal was always to get Hamas out of power. In fact IDF and Bibi have stated that repeatedly as the war progressed. So I am not sure what goal posts are being shifted.

Also for everyone outraged about crossing demarcation lines, go walk across the DMZ line between Koreas. FAFO situation. It's very sad but if you do dumb shit this is the result. Doing dumb shit with your family packed into one vehicle is insane. Laughing at placing blame on anyone but who precipitated the incident is not inappropriate.

Are you still a conservative?

I have known some libertarians who have shifted leftward towards progressive ideologies and you remind me of them.

 

[Anewt]

Egypt expected to lead global stabilisation force in Gaza, say diplomats

Decommissioning Hamas weapons seen as major stumbling block, with British diplomats advising on process

www.theguardian.com

Egypt expected to lead global stabilisation force in Gaza, say diplomats​

Decommissioning Hamas weapons seen as major stumbling block, with British diplomats advising on process

European and US-backed UN security council motion to give a planned international stabilisation force robust powers to control security inside Gaza is being prepared, with the strong expectation that Egypt will lead it, diplomats have said.

The US is pressing for the force to have a UN mandate without being a fully fledged UN peacekeeping force and will operate with the kind of powers given to international troops operating in Haiti to combat armed gangs.

Turkey, Indonesia and Azerbaijan are also being billed alongside Egypt as the main troop contributors. Egypt is still being consulted on whether the force should be a full UN-led operation.

It is not expected that European or British troops will be involved, but Britain has sent advisers to a small cell being operated by the US inside Israel that is working on implementing the second phase of the 20-point plan developed by Donald Trump, the US president.

The UK is stressing that the ultimate aim is a Palestinian state , which must be seen eventually as a single entity including the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

The UK has already been training a Palestinian police force contingent but the international force will be given lead responsibility under the proposal.

If the force proves effective, Israel will withdraw further. Israel has however been insisting it will retain a large Israeli controlled buffer zone to protect itself from fresh Hamas attacks.

British diplomats admit that the issue of decommissioning Hamas weapons will be the most difficult and it is contributing ideas from the process in Northern Ireland, where IRA and Protestant-controlled weapons were put beyond use including through an independent verification body.