Freestyle wrestling is more effective than folkstyle in mma

[immyaxl]

Let me start by saying that both are formidable weapons to have un your arsenal. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers have succeeded in the UFC and are actual champs like Usman.

That being said, the propaganda keeps repeating that folkstyle is the most suited to MMA competition because of the ride, because if this and that... People like Chael Sonnen, Ben Askren and such can't shut up about how folkstyle is tailor made for mma, with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

But in fact, is it more effective than freestyle wrestling in the context of mma ? If we look at statistic we see that no. The amount of ncaa/college wrestlers is HUGE in the UFC. I think i could name almost a hundred that have wrestled folkstyle in college just by memory. Compared to that, freestyle wrestlers are but a fraction of the wrestlers on the roster. And yet they are much more dominant. All those dagestanis/chechens with wrestling background make it work, both defensively and offensively..

And most of the time when a folkstyle wrestlers fights a freestyle one he loses the wrestling battle. Look at Khabib vs Abel Trujillo, Pat Healy & Gaethje, Makhachev vs Nick Lentz, Askarov vs Benavidez...

The best wrestlers, the most dominant ones, have been freestyle/olympic style wrestlers. Just look at Khabib, GSP & Cormier. Maybe the 3 best wrestlers in MMA history. And all wrestled freestyle (Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

TDLR: Folkstyle wrestling is good for mma but way too overrated, it's not the best wrestling style for mma, freestyle wrestling is, and freestyle beats folkstyle almost each time they fight

EDIT : A very good point made by our friend @Simple'Slam

Greco Roman Wrestling is also very well suited for MMA. Wrestling in general is by far the best base for MMA. As much as the promoters and some fans hate it. Grappling will always be the most dominant aspect of MMA.

 

[Grappler111]

What about Askren-Fundora lol?

How bout Askren pinning the Hungarian in the first round?

Folkstyle has proven to be WAY better than freestyle.

Incredibile. A pin over an Hungarian opponent! Fundora destroyed Askren in stand up and in ground wrestling. Folkstyle prove to be a very effective base but not in stand up grappling vs freestyle or greco.

 

[Grappler111]

Yes, you are absolutely correct. In Russia, specifically Dagestan, the overwhelming majority of young males learn at least some wrestling. It is pretty much a wrestling first culture. If you excel at wrestling, then you take priority, and there are special schools for you. Those who aren’t as good will generally move on to a different combat sport, like Judo/sambo. So you take a guy who has basic wrestling fundamentals, who is probably disappointed he didn’t make the cut in wrestling and give him a new grappling art to excel at. When compared to US wrestling, MMA fighters have throws, upper body, footweeps and submissions...all stemming from the freestyle/Judo/sambo hybrid. It makes a well rounded grapple to say the least. This is why Caucasian fighters are able to “chain wrestle” better than Americans. They simply have more moves to string together.

In Folkstyle wrestling they don’t emphasize throws or foot sweeps, and very few people are good at upper body positioning. It is far less well rounded. Not to say that we can’t produce good wrestlers, we can, but they most likely stick with wrestling. Americans tend to emphasize physicality. Having good cardio being strong that type of thing. I do like this, and it plays to our advantage internationally, but we should focus on developing good technique to add to our punishing physicality and stamina.

Finally a very good point of wiev.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Incredibile. A pin over an Hungarian opponent! Fundora destroyed Askren in stand up and in ground wrestling. Folkstyle prove to be a very effective base but not in stand up grappling vs freestyle or greco.

Tito outwrestled Vlad
Brunson outwrestled Yoel
Jim miller outwrestled iShalorus
Antonio McKee took diwn Heath Sims at will
Bones outwrestled DC (DC is folk too tho)

 

[mjfan23]

There might be a misunderstanding between us. I am not trying to by right at all costs I assure you, not my style. But i do like to have lengthy discussion on subject I like and explain why I believe what I believe. Hence my numerous responses.

Maybe the misunderstanding is the follow : i never said that freestyle wrestling was GSP's mma base, obviously he has numerous ones and was a truly complete mixed martial artist, i only said that it was his wrestling base. His wrestling base that he developed his mma wrestling game on was freestyle and not folkstyle. I think you'd agree with that ?

Yes sir that I agree with.

 

[Grappler111]

Tito outwrestled Vlad
Brunson outwrestled Yoel
Jim miller outwrestled iShalorus
Antonio McKee took diwn Heath Sims at will
Bones outwrestled DC (DC is folk too tho)

Bones has also greco base and a lot of advantages see my post...
Romero defeated Brunson. A 40 year old (unable to compete at seniors in freestyle) vs a 30 years old and he won the match. He defeated also Weidman



Shalorus defeated Jansen and he has not an official scoring in Freestyle. Cormier and Cejudo are champions in different weight classes and they have a common background : freestyle wrestling . Khabib start with Freestyle wrestling, GSP embrace freestyle and outwrestled a lot of ncaa Div1... .

 

[MartinGibson86]

Bones has also greco base and a lot of advantages see my post...
Romero defeated Brunson. A 40 year old (unable to compete at seniors in freestyle) vs a 30 years old and he won the match. He defeated also Weidman



Shalorus defeated Jansen and he has not an official scoring in Freestyle. Cormier and Cejudo are champions in different weight classes and they have a common background : freestyle wrestling . Khabib start with Freestyle wrestling, GSP embrace freestyle and outwrestled a lot of ncaa Div1... .

Cejudos and Cormiers base is folkstyle....ya know, like Askren...and every other American

Weidman won and defendedthetitle. He had a better career than Yoel.

 

[Grappler111]

Cejudos and Cormiers base is folkstyle....ya know, like Askren...and every other American

Weidman won and defendedthetitle. He had a better career than Yoel.

And Weidman was defeated by an old Romero who was a victime of controversial decision in different title fights.

According to Cejudo :

"I really was one of the first athletes to try something different and focus more on freestyle than folkstyle at a really young age," Cejudo said. "

Cormier has also folkstyle base ok but the best Cormier was built into the international freestyle wrestling environment.

 

[Swepingright]

There was some data a few years ago showing that Greco Roman was the most succrssful wrestling style in MMA

 

[Swepingright]

People always say folkstyle but that's because all americans are taught that by default. Hence skewed MMA stats

 

[Grappler111]

There was some data a few years ago showing that Greco Roman was the most succrssful wrestling style in MMA

Not pure greco roman wrestling because the major number of mma fighters has also folkstyle background. Greco training help a lot a wrestler with folkstyle base.

 

[Swepingright]

Greco Roman guys have soo much stronger throws than freestyle wrestlers. It's not even close. Put a freestyler up in Greco Roman and he'd get ragdolled 90% of the time.

 

[Al-Musoroah]

Strengths:

Freestyle = Shooting leg takedowns
Folkstyle = Top control, scrambling
Greco = Upperbody takedowns
Judo = Throws, trips

Take the best of all.

 

[Grappler111]

Greco Roman guys have soo much stronger throws than freestyle wrestlers. It's not even close. Put a freestyler up in Greco Roman and he'd get ragdolled 90% of the time.

Not at international level wrestling. The strength and power are similar in both styles. Greco is part of freestyle wrestling and there is a lot of cross training between Freestyle and Greco.

https://www.teamusa.org/News/2019/A...verything-Team-USA-Wrestlers-Want-You-To-Know

 

[Swepingright]

Not at international level wrestling. The strength and power are similar in both styles. Greco is part of freestyle wrestling and there is a lot of cross training between Freestyle and Greco.

https://www.teamusa.org/News/2019/A...verything-Team-USA-Wrestlers-Want-You-To-Know

There was a study comparing the two athletes and greco Roman wrestlers were stronger

 

[Grappler111]

There was a study comparing the two athletes and greco Roman wrestlers were stronger

A study of ony one nation so....

 

[Swepingright]

A study of ony one nation so....

Pretty sure they train the same everywhere

 

[SBC]

Greco Roman guys have soo much stronger throws than freestyle wrestlers. It's not even close. Put a freestyler up in Greco Roman and he'd get ragdolled 90% of the time.

There was a study comparing the two athletes and greco Roman wrestlers were stronger

This is true. In the overwhelming majority of countries, basically all but America, greco is where the A-class athletes go. In America it seems to be where the freestyle washouts find refuge. I lovegreco and want more to enter MMA. In America, greco athletes are even more well rounded, being that they make the transition after years of folkstyle.

 

[campbecc]

Khabib was no more a freestyle wrestler than he was a Judo competitor, his grappling accomplishments were in Sambo and he calls himself a sambo style grappler. GSP never competed in freestyle, he trained different types of grappling for MMA. And like you said DC was originally a folkstyle wrestler as were basically any US based wrestler. I have no doubt most wrestling based UFC champions or elite fighters come from a Folkstyle background.

 

[Grappler111]

This is true. In the overwhelming majority of countries, basically all but America, greco is where the A-class athletes go. In America it seems to be where the freestyle washouts find refuge. I lovegreco and want more to enter MMA. In America, greco athletes are even more well rounded, being that they make the transition after years of folkstyle.

Not at elite level. The strenght is similar between the two Olympic styles :

... In other words the wrestlers have been shown similar strength features notwithstanding to their different styles. Lopez-Gullon et al. (2011) reported alike results that there were not differences among strength abilities of Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestlers. Contrary to these findings, the relative leg strength ability was found significantly different between..


https://www.researchgate.net/public...een_Freestyle_and_Greco-Roman_elite_wrestlers

See Makhov for example. A lot of elite freestylers train in greco. Probably not in USA. Khabib started with Freestyle Wrestling after, Pankration (another WRESTLING style), Grappling (another WRESTLING style), judo and combat sambo.