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Freestyle wrestling is more effective than folkstyle in mma

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Iron Monger, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    Let me start by saying that both are formidable weapons to have un your arsenal. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers have succeeded in the UFC and are actual champs like Usman.

    That being said, the propaganda keeps repeating that folkstyle is the most suited to MMA competition because of the ride, because if this and that... People like Chael Sonnen, Ben Askren and such can't shut up about how folkstyle is tailor made for mma, with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

    But in fact, is it more effective than freestyle wrestling in the context of mma ? If we look at statistic we see that no. The amount of ncaa/college wrestlers is HUGE in the UFC. I think i could name almost a hundred that have wrestled folkstyle in college just by memory. Compared to that, freestyle wrestlers are but a fraction of the wrestlers on the roster. And yet they are much more dominant. All those dagestanis/chechens with wrestling background make it work, both defensively and offensively..

    And most of the time when a folkstyle wrestlers fights a freestyle one he loses the wrestling battle. Look at Khabib vs Abel Trujillo, Pat Healy & Gaethje, Makhachev vs Nick Lentz, Askarov vs Benavidez...

    The best wrestlers, the most dominant ones, have been freestyle/olympic style wrestlers. Just look at Khabib, GSP & Cormier. Maybe the 3 best wrestlers in MMA history. And all wrestled freestyle (Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

    TDLR: Folkstyle wrestling is good for mma but way too overrated, it's not the best wrestling style for mma, freestyle wrestling is, and freestyle beats folkstyle almost each time they fight

    EDIT : A very good point made by our friend @Simple'Slam
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  2. Johnny_Knuckles Brown Belt

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    Lancashire wrestling is the best wrestling form for mma
     
  3. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    Let's only count the styles that are practiced by more than 10 people.

    (Sorry had to make the joke. But seriously the only other two throw focused styles that we could talk about here would be Greco and Judo. And Freestyle and Folkstyle have been proven to be globally more effective in mma than them both. Lancashire wrestling is way to niche to be taken into account here.)
     
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  4. Mob69 Black Belt

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    Ha ha. Indeed. That said, Lancashire (catch) wrestling became the foundation of Japanese shoot fighting, which was not only an extremely effective form of grappling but very influential on the development of MMA.
     
  5. Reach4theSky Playin' a riddim

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    Just wait till we see a Kirkpinar wrestler..

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    Yes it has a great history. Lancashire is just another term for catch as catch can isn't it ? The dedicated thread on the grappling subforum has some very interesting historical discussions about shoot fighting and such. I make sure to visit it twice or thrice a year. Always a good read. And the CACC rules are interesting with the pins and all. That's style an extremely niche style tho.
     
  7. SakurabasEar >>>>Gracie Killer<<<< Platinum Member

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    Nothing tops glima, the wrestling style of the NORDIC GAWDS!

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  8. Mob69 Black Belt

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    Yes, that's right. There was a truly, truly brilliant 2.5 hour interview with the legendary Billy Robinson done by Sherdog's Jack Encarnacao for an old show, I think called Rewind. It is easily the best martial arts interview I have ever heard. Robinson - a legendary catch wrestler, a brilliant pro wrestler, and a fucking bad ass - was coming towards the end of his life but reflected on the development of grappling from a completely unique, now lost, perspective. The interview must have been recorded a decade or so ago. FIND IT IF YOU CAN. It's totally engrossing.
     
  9. Human Bass Red Belt

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    No. And you can't really use Khabib as a freestyle example. A combat Sambo guy with plenty of triangle subs is your example of Olympic freestyle? Lol.

    Also GSP never trained for freestyle competition. He trained with freestyle guys, folk and bjj all the time. He trained heavily with Roger Gracie, and we don't call him a bjj guy for that.
     
  10. TJ Dillashank Purple Belt

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    Im sorry but Greko Roman is the way brother
     
  11. Luvhawky Brown Belt

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    All of GSPs techniques are folk. Cormier definitely used freestyle but was a folk wrestler first and Khabib doesn’t use many freestyle techniques. I don’t know much about Sambo but I have a feeling that is the main discipline being employed but again don’t know much about it. Just as much as the next guy.
     
  12. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    Khabib is a freestyle wrestler mainly and that's the style he enjoys the most. Here he says it himself starting at 4:39 :



    Also because he knows how to apply a triangle choke his wrestling is not freestyle ? So cormier is not a wrestler too because he uses rear naked chokes ? What ks that kind of logic. They're mma fighter. I'm talking about their wrestling styles.

    And GSP wrestled plenty with the Canadian Olympic wrestling team. If that doesn't make his style of wrestling freestyle nothing does then.

    I welcome constructive criticism but it's not the case here, you're missing a lot of points.
     
  13. Luvhawky Brown Belt

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    What freestyle techniques did GSP employ that are banned in folk during matches? Who he trains with doesn’t necessarily mean he used those techniques in mma.
     
  14. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    A proof about how all of GSP's techniques are folkstyle ? Because if not proof that's just what you want to believe. GSP never trained folkstyle he trained olympic style wrestling since he was 16.

    Cormier's famous high crotch single exists both in folkstyle and freestyle. He probably mixes the two but he spent the latter part of his life and closest to his mma career doing freestyle. But he probably mixes it up so i'd say you're right here.

    And Khabib uses many freestyle techniques. Remember that pseudo ankle pick he did against Iaquinta ? He said in an interview with Ariel that it was a freestyle technique. And he said he enjoys freestyle more.
     
  15. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    It's a good point. Obviously the two styles share a lot of similarities. My main point was that GSP style is freestyle, not folkstyle. That's undeniable. And that fighters with the freestyle background have been more successful at mma wrestling, and they are fewer than the folk guys. Which makes freestyle more suited for mma.
     
  16. Simple'Slam Banned Banned

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    There's nothing surprising about this. Freestyle is an international level sport while Folkstyle is a national level sport. The competitive pool in an international level sport is far deeper than the one in a national sport. Simply put, freestyle chads have to overcome far tougher competition if they want to compete at a high level compared to collegiate wrestlers and as everyone knows: iron sharpens iron.

    Also, at this point even combat sambo - a sport that has a smaller talent pool than folkstyle, is proving to be more effective in MMA than folkstyle:

    World Combat Sambo champion Khabib outwrestled D1 Gaethje
    World Combat Sambo champion Islam outwrestled D1 Lentz
    World Combat Sambo champion Amosov outwrestled D1 Ed Ruth and D1 Logan Storley.
    World Combat Sambo champion Nemkov outwrestled D1 Phil Davis.

    Even though folkstyle talent pool is bigger, combat sambo talent pool is outright better. Must be due to the fact that combat sambo practitioners have to compete against the best from all over the world, not just their own country.
     
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  17. Luvhawky Brown Belt

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    Freestyle gives you more options standing as it has less rules. But folk wrestling is employed a lot on advancing top positions as the nature of top forces those techniques to be developed. Not being able to lock your hands requires a different level of control and requires a person to advance up the back. I wouldn’t disregard one over the other. Both sets of techniques are actively used by successful wrestlers in mma.
     
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  18. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    That's an excellent point, i'll add it to the OP !
     
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  19. Iron Monger Black Belt

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    Ok you make very good points. I've basically heard Askren say more or less the same as you. Now when we look at the stats, freestyle guys make it work more often than folkstyle guys. There could be many factors. Americans are not used to the variety of takedowns that freestyle offers, and also two folkstyle guys could have more chances to counter each other.

    Also the top work in folkstyk is obviously advantageous to mma, as you explained. But when one does develop a good top bjj game, he will probably not have need for it, and that's where the takedown superioty of freestyle while shine.

    plus freestyle has a bigger talent pool. Just my theories tho
     
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  20. Lavitz It’s Showtime!

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    Most dudes who were good in high school/college did both folkstyle and freestyle.
     

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