Freestyle wrestling is more effective than folkstyle in mma

[Luvhawky]

GSP never trained Folkstyle one day on his life. Why would you just say something so wrong?

I didn’t say he trained folk. Why would you misread my post?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Sure, he was never known for travelling hours to train with Renzo at New York. There are no videos of him with John Danaher, Roger Gracie and such.

No I mean for wrestling. Of course he trained BJJ in the USA.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I didn’t say he trained folk. Why would you misread my post?

" All of GSP's technique are folk".
You literally wrote that.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

Sure, he was never known for travelling hours to train with Renzo at New York. There are no videos of him with John Danaher, Roger Gracie and such.

Yes he trained BJJ. What does it have to do with wether of his wrestling style is freestyle or not ?

 

[Luvhawky]

" All of GSP's technique are folk".
You literally wrote that.

The differences between folk and freestyle are a few sets of rules. If GSP’s techniques still subscribe to folk rules despite training with freestyle partners, his techniques for the sake of this conversation are folk. Whether you agree or not, do you see where my statement is coming from?

 

[TheMaster]

Let me start by saying that both are formidable weapons to have un your arsenal. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers have succeeded in the UFC and are actual champs like Usman.

That being said, the propaganda keeps repeating that folkstyle is the most suited to MMA competition because of the ride, because if this and that... People like Chael Sonnen, Ben Askren and such can't shut up about how folkstyle is tailor made for mma, with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

But in fact, is it more effective than freestyle wrestling in the context of mma ? If we look at statistic we see that no. The amount of ncaa/college wrestlers is HUGE in the UFC. I think i could name almost a hundred that have wrestled folkstyle in college just by memory. Compared to that, freestyle wrestlers are but a fraction of the wrestlers on the roster. And yet they are much more dominant. All those dagestanis/chechens with wrestling background make it work, both defensively and offensively..

And most of the time when a folkstyle wrestlers fights a freestyle one he loses the wrestling battle. Look at Khabib vs Abel Trujillo, Pat Healy & Gaethje, Makhachev vs Nick Lentz, Askarov vs Benavidez...

The best wrestlers, the most dominant ones, have been freestyle/olympic style wrestlers. Just look at Khabib, GSP & Cormier. Maybe the 3 best wrestlers in MMA history. And all wrestled freestyle (Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

TDLR: Folkstyle wrestling is good for mma but way too overrated, it's not the best wrestling style for mma, freestyle wrestling is, and freestyle beats folkstyle almost each time they fight

EDIT : A very good point made by our friend @Simple'Slam

Those Dagestanis are doing Judo and Sambo.

 

[JustBleed69]

Let me start by saying that both are formidable weapons to have un your arsenal. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers have succeeded in the UFC and are actual champs like Usman.

That being said, the propaganda keeps repeating that folkstyle is the most suited to MMA competition because of the ride, because if this and that... People like Chael Sonnen, Ben Askren and such can't shut up about how folkstyle is tailor made for mma, with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

But in fact, is it more effective than freestyle wrestling in the context of mma ? If we look at statistic we see that no. The amount of ncaa/college wrestlers is HUGE in the UFC. I think i could name almost a hundred that have wrestled folkstyle in college just by memory. Compared to that, freestyle wrestlers are but a fraction of the wrestlers on the roster. And yet they are much more dominant. All those dagestanis/chechens with wrestling background make it work, both defensively and offensively..

And most of the time when a folkstyle wrestlers fights a freestyle one he loses the wrestling battle. Look at Khabib vs Abel Trujillo, Pat Healy & Gaethje, Makhachev vs Nick Lentz, Askarov vs Benavidez...

The best wrestlers, the most dominant ones, have been freestyle/olympic style wrestlers. Just look at Khabib, GSP & Cormier. Maybe the 3 best wrestlers in MMA history. And all wrestled freestyle (Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

TDLR: Folkstyle wrestling is good for mma but way too overrated, it's not the best wrestling style for mma, freestyle wrestling is, and freestyle beats folkstyle almost each time they fight

EDIT : A very good point made by our friend @Simple'Slam

I disagree.
Statistics show that Freestyle is more successful in MMA because the USA is virtually the only country in the world that uses Folkstyle in schools, from elementary all the way up to college. So obviously you're going to get more Freestyle wrestlers in MMA by virtue of how many other countries use Freestyle or Greco .
However if you just think of it purely from a ruleset perspective Folkstyle is tailor made for MMA.

There is no turn points system in Folkstyle, only points for controlling your opponent on the ground and holding them down.
Plus in Folkstyle you are not allowed to lock your hands, which encourages people to fight with their legs/ hooks, use wrist rides, and just generally make the ground work far more technical than freestyle.

Folkstyle and Greco are king as far as wrestling goes in MMA.

Also you listed DC and Khabib as Freestyle.
DC grew up wrestling Folkstyle his entire life, Khabib has a mix of Folkstyle and Greco/ Judo (Big Slams and Wrist Rides). Dagestani Handcuff = Folkstyle Wrist Ride.

GSP never wrestled so no idea what you're talking about there.

 

[kuroro]

with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

in fairness to him, it did get an unathletic loser like him to the level of being able to entertain delusions of becoming ww champ in the ufc.

 

[JustBleed69]

I have a strong suspicion that this is not true at all and that the vast majority of wrestlers in MMA globally are US collegiate wrestlers, not greco or freestyle wrestlers who have much better career prospects that hinge solely on their wrestling ability compared to US collegiate wrestlers. High level freestyle guys almost never cross over to MMA, because they are loaded with money.

Dude, what lol wrestling is a money-less sport.
Even literal Olympians don't make that much money in the sport of wrestling.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Most top level grapplers in MMA that train freestyle wrestling are going to focus a lot more on mat wrestling and a bit less on throws than freestyle wrestlers that don't fight same for Judo guys. The training these guys do is more of a hybrid of multiple wrestling/grappling styles, Khabib for instance does Sambo, Judo, Freestyle wrestling and IMO his top game looks similar to what Shields and Askren(Folkstyle wrestlers with BJJ) did though obviously better.

 

[mjfan23]

Great Job TS!!!
Mentions freestyle wrestling than goes on to mention as validation Khabib and GSP who do not have a storied freestyle wrestling background more karate and sambo.

 

[JustBleed69]

Great Job TS!!!
Mentions freestyle wrestling than goes on to mention as validation Khabib and GSP who do not have a storied freestyle wrestling background more karate and sambo.

Not to mention DC, multiple time Folkstyle All American lol

 

[Blayt7hh]

None of your examples are any good. GSP didn’t come from any background and probably spent more time with follkstyle trainers. DC was a collegiate wrestler before an Olympian so I’m assuming he wrestled folk in college. Khabib is probably your best example but his background is sambo first and foremost

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

The differences between folk and freestyle are a few sets of rules. If GSP’s techniques still subscribe to folk rules despite training with freestyle partners, his techniques for the sake of this conversation are folk. Whether you agree or not, do you see where my statement is coming from?

That's pretty fallacious lol, are you trolling me? He never trained folk, his techniques are overlapping freestyle and folk, but now "for the sake of discussion" it's folk?

 

[Badger67]

None of your examples are any good. GSP didn’t come from any background and probably spent more time with follkstyle trainers. DC was a collegiate wrestler before an Olympian so I’m assuming he wrestled folk in college. Khabib is probably your best example but his background is sambo first and foremost

Gsp spent most of his wrestling in quebec with our olympic squad under coach Z; its freestyle. Im sure he has dabbled in folk for other experiences but its mainly freestyle as his wrestling base.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

Great Job TS!!!
Mentions freestyle wrestling than goes on to mention as validation Khabib and GSP who do not have a storied freestyle wrestling background more karate and sambo.

GSP wrestled with the Canadian Olympic Freestyle Wrestling team. With athletes like Zimmerman and such. If we go by that logic he hasn't fot a karate background too because he never competed in kyokushin. Just trained it. Like wrestling. And show us where he trained samba please.

Not to mention DC, multiple time Folkstyle All American lol

Yeah, maybe read what i wrote in the OP before commenting :

(Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

 

[Deleted member 512089]

The differences between folk and freestyle are a few sets of rules. If GSP’s techniques still subscribe to folk rules despite training with freestyle partners, his techniques for the sake of this conversation are folk. Whether you agree or not, do you see where my statement is coming from?

It's not just the rules. In folk you can't lock hands, that will lead to a very different takedown game. There are more takedown techniques in freestyle than folkstyle.

Folkstyle is better for ground control. But once both wrestlers learn BJJ than edge becomes pretty irrelevant, while the superiority of freestyle takedowns stays.

 

[kflo]

Isn’t it kinda pointless to try to label gsp or khabib’s style with any precision when they never competed at any real level in either? The rule sets are there for scoring only. For an mma fighter, or a combat sambo fighter, focusing in the rule sets / scoring of freestyle is also pointless. I think it’s pretty safe to say if gsp came from a folk heavy camp instead of a freestyle heavy camp he would still become gsp. The mma fighter. Same for khabib who obviously was most focused on becoming a great fighter, not a great freestyle wrestler. You really can’t call him a freestyle wrestler when he had so much judo and sambo experience on top. Much of what made him dominant was not just freestyle wrestling.

Dc was a folk wrestler who transitioned to international wrestling so transitioned to free. Cain didn’t wrestle internationally and was only folk. Do you really think it was DC’s international experience that made him great, or would he have been great if he started mma with just a folk background like Cain? Jbj wasn’t a freestyle wrestler. Almost all American wrestlers at least grew up on folk. Even guys who bypassed college like pico and cejudo.

In the end the best fighters adapt to mma rules.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

First thanks for your input. Now here is my take :

I disagree.
Statistics show that Freestyle is more successful in MMA because the USA is virtually the only country in the world that uses Folkstyle in schools, from elementary all the way up to college. So obviously you're going to get more Freestyle wrestlers in MMA by virtue of how many other countries use Freestyle or Greco .
However if you just think of it purely from a ruleset perspective Folkstyle is tailor made for MMA.


Folkstyle and Greco are king as far as wrestling goes in MMA.

There are more Americans than any other nationality in the UFC, and majority of them are former college wrestlers.
Then for the other countries a big lot of them have no culture of wrestling in their country, like Brazil, Canada, the UK, western europe, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Japan... The only ones with a real freestyle wrestling background are mainly russian and ex-ussr countries.

So i beg to differ, there are more folkstyle wrestlers than freestyle in the UFC. Then if you talk about the amount of wrestlers in the world, yes freestyle and greco are more numerous of course because folkstyle is limited to america. But not in the UFC.

There is no turn points system in Folkstyle, only points for controlling your opponent on the ground and holding them down.
Plus in Folkstyle you are not allowed to lock your hands, which encourages people to fight with their legs/ hooks, use wrist rides, and just generally make the ground work far more technical than freestyle.

Folkstyle and Greco are king as far as wrestling goes in MMA

The fact that you can't lock hands in folkstyle you have fewer takedown techniques. Freestyle is superior when it comes to takedowns and throws. Folkstyle is Superior when it comes to ground work because the folkstyle ride is useful in MMA, whereas the freestyle groundwork is useless. But once both athlete learn bjj, get to a purple-ish level, and develop a good bjj top game, the advantage that folkstyle did bring becomes less relevant while the takedown superiority from freestyle still is. A pure freestyle wrestler with good bjj will be more well rounded/dangerous than a pure folkstyle wrestler with good bjj.

Also you listed DC and Khabib as Freestyle.
DC grew up wrestling Folkstyle his entire life, Khabib has a mix of Folkstyle and Greco/ Judo (Big Slams and Wrist Rides). Dagestani Handcuff = Folkstyle Wrist Ride.

Yes DC and khabib use a mix of different grappling style, it is true. I said it for DC anyway. They're style mainly freestyle wresters because DC spent years training freestyle at a way higher level than folkstyle for the Olympics, and Khabin said himself than freestyle is what he prefers. But yes they're mixed grapplers if i can say so.

GSP never wrestled so no idea what you're talking about there.

GSP trained wrestling since he was 16y old and he trained it extensively with the Canadian Olympic Wrestling Team which had athletes like Zimmerman at the time. I don't know where you get the idea that he never wrestled. Never competed you meant ? Yes, but he still wrestled. A hell lot.

 

[Luvhawky]

It's not just the rules. In folk you can't lock hands, that will lead to a very different takedown game. There are more takedown techniques in freestyle than folkstyle.

Folkstyle is better for ground control. But once both wrestlers learn BJJ than edge becomes pretty irrelevant, while the superiority of freestyle takedowns stays.

You can lock your hands on takedowns in folk. There are elevation techniques that are differemt. But locking your hands in neutral position is completely acceptable.