Freestyle wrestling is more effective than folkstyle in mma

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Gsp spent most of his wrestling in quebec with our olympic squad under coach Z; its freestyle. Im sure he has dabbled in folk for other experiences but its mainly freestyle as his wrestling base.
He also trained out of Jackson so he definitely spent a lot of time with folksyle wrestlers. All a moot point really since he only ever trained wrestling as adapted for MMA an you can’t draw any conclusions about folk vs free from GSP
 
That's pretty fallacious lol, are you trolling me? He never trained folk, his techniques are overlapping freestyle and folk, but now "for the sake of discussion" it's folk?

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The context of the thread is freestyle being better than folk. If it’s better, it would have to be in regards to the differences. Someone like GSP only used techniques allowed in both styles. It’s disingenuous to label his techniques freestyle, I labeled them as folk techniques since they are the overlap between the two. Does that make sense or do you stil think I’m a troll?
 
You can lock your hands on takedowns in folk. There are elevation techniques that are differemt. But locking your hands in neutral position is completely acceptable.
Yep the biggest difference is in freestyle you can just launch to dude for exposure. Folkstyle you gotta bring down the opponent safely.

Not sure what he means that you can’t lock your hands in folk. There are many techniques where you can lock from neutral straight to the guys back to pin. Of course riding you can’t lock unless you are going for a specific pinning combination like a cradle or side headlock.
 
Yep the biggest difference is in freestyle you can just launch to dude for exposure. Folkstyle you gotta bring down the opponent safely.

Not sure what he means that you can’t lock your hands in folk. There are many techniques where you can lock from neutral straight to the guys back to pin. Of course riding you can’t lock unless you are going for a specific pinning combination like a cradle or side headlock.
Exactly, thanks for this post.
 
Wrestling is a money-less sport in the US. In countries like Russia high level freestyle wrestlers are more than financially secure from just doing wrestling, which is why you pretty much never see Russian freestyle world champions or Olympians cross over into MMA.
If you medal you get paid decently for team USA.

Burroughs got 250,000 for his gold in 2012. Most dudes make money from clinics or sponsors. Kyle Synder and Burroughs have shoes deals.

And yes Russian and other countries like Iran or India, top wrestlers are paid good.
 
Wrestling is a money-less sport in the US. In countries like Russia high level freestyle wrestlers are more than financially secure from just doing wrestling, which is why you pretty much never see Russian freestyle world champions or Olympians cross over into MMA.

I mean couldn't you say the same about American wrestlers if we're talking the very top levels?

Brock Lesnar was a WWF/WWE wrestler before he was an MMA fighter, also made it on an NFL roster for a preseason at least. He's probably the best accolade wrestler MMA has seen since Mark Kerr? I guess I forgot Cejudo.

But it's not like we're seeing Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, Bo Nickal, J'den Cox, David Taylor, whoever....top champions and olympians just running to MMA.

I think outside of more recent times in MMA there have been just far more americans doing it than russians, specifically transitioning from wrestling.
 
As for this thread,

I don't think freestyle is necessarily better than folk, I'd actually probably argue folk is better for MMA. I just think more people do freestyle therefore more athletes/wrestlers to transition to MMA and therefore succeed.

GSP is a fallacious example considering he was not a college wrestler and adapted his wrestling purely for MMA. Khabib seems like a flimsy example at best too, pretty sure he locks his hands even in wrestling practice in ways that would break the rules in freestyle (not a buff but I've seen DC say it to him during practices on yt).

Again I think this is just a function of volume.
 
Isn't freestyle just folkstyle without holding down your opponent?

There are plenty of freestyle wrestlers like Romero whose wrestling is useless because they can't hold down their opponent.

Folkstyle>freestyle
 
First thanks for your input. Now here is my take :



There are more Americans than any other nationality in the UFC, and majority of them are former college wrestlers.
Then for the other countries a big lot of them have no culture of wrestling in their country, like Brazil, Canada, the UK, western europe, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Japan... The only ones with a real freestyle wrestling background are mainly russian and ex-ussr countries.

So i beg to differ, there are more folkstyle wrestlers than freestyle in the UFC. Then if you talk about the amount of wrestlers in the world, yes freestyle and greco are more numerous of course because folkstyle is limited to america. But not in the UFC.



The fact that you can't lock hands in folkstyle you have fewer takedown techniques. Freestyle is superior when it comes to takedowns and throws. Folkstyle is Superior when it comes to ground work because the folkstyle ride is useful in MMA, whereas the freestyle groundwork is useless. But once both athlete learn bjj, get to a purple-ish level, and develop a good bjj top game, the advantage that folkstyle did bring becomes less relevant while the takedown superiority from freestyle still is. A pure freestyle wrestler with good bjj will be more well rounded/dangerous than a pure folkstyle wrestler with good bjj.



Yes DC and khabib use a mix of different grappling style, it is true. I said it for DC anyway. They're style mainly freestyle wresters because DC spent years training freestyle at a way higher level than folkstyle for the Olympics, and Khabin said himself than freestyle is what he prefers. But yes they're mixed grapplers if i can say so.



GSP trained wrestling since he was 16y old and he trained it extensively with the Canadian Olympic Wrestling Team which had athletes like Zimmerman at the time. I don't know where you get the idea that he never wrestled. Never competed you meant ? Yes, but he still wrestled. A hell lot.
You don't understand the rules of Folkstyle. What you said about limiting takedowns because of no hand locking is totally irrelevant because you can lock your hands in Folkstyle UNTIL the takedown is completed and both athletes are grounded. You can absolutely lock hands to get takedowns. Might want to go read the ruleset of Folkstyle and Freestyle Wrestling.
Also Freestyle and Folkstyle takedowns are "virtually identical". You can do all the same things, the only difference is the points awarded.
DC trained and competed way more years in Folkstyle than he did in Freestyle.

As far as GSP, by that logic then every single MMA fighter today has wrestled because it is a part of every MMA gyms training program.
When you say someone has a wrestling background that means that they participated in wrestling throughout school and/or competed in wrestling.
Also, do you really thing when GSP is training Wrestling he is focusing on leg laces and gut wrenches? Techniques that literally have 0 application to MMA or any other combat sport for that matter? No, he is focusing on keeping his opponents on the mat (Folkstyle Wrestling) and/ or looking for positional dominance to get a submission (BJJ).
 
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You can lock your hands on takedowns in folk. There are elevation techniques that are differemt. But locking your hands in neutral position is completely acceptable.

ok thanks for the clarification i wasn't sure on that one
 
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You don't understand the rules of Folkstyle. What you said about limiting takedowns because of no hand locking is totally irrelevant because you can lock your hands in Folkstyle UNTIL the takedown is completed and both athletes are grounded. You can absolutely lock hands to get takedowns. Might want to go read the ruleset of Folkstyle and Freestyle Wrestling.
Also Freestyle and Folkstyle takedowns are "virtually identical". You can do all the same things, the only difference is the points awarded.
DC trained and competed way more years in Folkstyle than he did in Freestyle.

As far as GSP, by that logic then every single MMA fighter today has wrestled because it is a part of every MMA gyms training program.
When you say someone has a wrestling background that means that they wrestling in school and/ competed in wrestling.
Also, do you really thing when GSP is training Wrestling he is focusing on leg laces and gut wrenches? Techniques that literally have 0 application to MMA or any other combat sport for that matter? No, he is focusing on keeping his opponents on the mat (Folkstyle Wrestling) and/ or looking for positional dominance to get a submission (BJJ).

Ok, thanks for the hand locking rules clarification, i didn't understand it right it's true
 
in fairness to him, it did get an unathletic loser like him to the level of being able to entertain delusions of becoming ww champ in the ufc.

Correct me if I am wrong but Askren actually competed in the olympics. He s not a loser lol. He just cannot strike for shit, which is a roblem in MMA.
 
Askren during Olympic games...Ben is not so effective on the ground despite folkstyle background.



Freestyle has a big advantage over folkstyle. A bigger arsenal in takedowns and throws without the restrictions of folkstyle and a lot time in stand up grappling. On the ground folkstyle is better but Grappling nogi is better than collegiate wrestling so...
 
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He also trained out of Jackson so he definitely spent a lot of time with folksyle wrestlers. All a moot point really since he only ever trained wrestling as adapted for MMA an you can’t draw any conclusions about folk vs free from GSP

That's just wrong lol. In his time GSP was known for training pure wrestling in a pure olympic wrestling focused club.
Why do people misrepresent all the time here?
 
The context of the thread is freestyle being better than folk. If it’s better, it would have to be in regards to the differences. Someone like GSP only used techniques allowed in both styles. It’s disingenuous to label his techniques freestyle, I labeled them as folk techniques since they are the overlap between the two. Does that make sense or do you stil think I’m a troll?

It still doesn't make sense, no. He trains freestyle and used freestyle technique. That these techniques exist in folkstyle or drunken snake claw kung fu is not quite relevant.
 
It still doesn't make sense, no. He trains freestyle and used freestyle technique. That these techniques exist in folkstyle or drunken snake claw kung fu is not quite relevant.
Whether GSP trained freestyle or folk, his techniques utilized in mma would have been the same, he utilized common denominator techniques. If that doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what to say. I'm not asking you to agree, but you seem to lack the ability to see my point at all.
 
Whether GSP trained freestyle or folk, his techniques utilized in mma would have been the same, he utilized common denominator techniques. If that doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what to say. I'm not asking you to agree, but you seem to lack the ability to see my point at all.

No. A lot of techniques of freestyle arsenal are banned in folkstyle. All the high amplitude throws for example.
 
Askren during Olympic games...Ben is not so effective on the ground despite folkstyle background.



Freestyle has a big advantage over folkstyle. A bigger arsenal in takedowns and throws without the restrictions of folkstyle and a lot time in stand up grappling. On the ground folkstyle is better but Grappling nogi is better than collegiate wrestling so...


Exactly the point i tried to make. Folkstyle has the edge on the ground but freestyle has the edge standing and with the throws. But guess what once both wrestlers learn submission grappling, folkstyle's ground advantage isn't really significant anymore while the freestyle takedown advantage is still as significant as before
 
Isn't freestyle just folkstyle without holding down your opponent?

There are plenty of freestyle wrestlers like Romero whose wrestling is useless because they can't hold down their opponent.

Folkstyle>freestyle

No it also has many more takedown techniques that folkstyle hasn't and benefits from a much much much larger talent pool, which make the freestyle level higher
 
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