Freestyle wrestling is more effective than folkstyle in mma

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Folk style is typically a lower level sport with more emphasis on ground game and less on takedowns.

No surprise those guys lose the takedown battle a fair bit.

Look at how many folk style guys got good at the ground game fast and then look at a guy like Yoel who never goes to the ground because his ground game sucks.
 
Iron Monger said:
Khabib is a freestyle wrestler mainly and that's the style he enjoys the most. Here he says it himself starting at 4:39 :



Also because he knows how to apply a triangle choke his wrestling is not freestyle ? So cormier is not a wrestler too because he uses rear naked chokes ? What ks that kind of logic. They're mma fighter. I'm talking about their wrestling styles.

And GSP wrestled plenty with the Canadian Olympic wrestling team. If that doesn't make his style of wrestling freestyle nothing does then.

I welcome constructive criticism but it's not the case here, you're missing a lot of points.
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Khabib is an extremely well rounded grappler, including wrestling. But he didn't compete in a freestyle and his grappling game is very far from the freestyle meta. You mentioned his fight with Abel Trujillo. Thad fight Khabib played guard and locked a triangle.
Freestyle guys aren't comfortable at all playing guard like Khabib.

Also Cormier has trained folk all his life til the end of college. Why you don't mention guys that actually competed their whole life on freestyle like Yoel Romero or Shalorus?
 
Ali Isaev defeated 2 combat sambo world champions but he is an international level freestyle wrestlers. A lhw former greco world champion Aliakbari defeated multi time combat sambo world champion Moldavsky. Chimaev is another fighter with freestyle background at national level but defeated another combat sambo world champion. Freestyle is far better than folkstyle in stand up grappling, takedowns, throws and transition on the ground. Folkstyle is better on ground control, ok, but if you want see Askren vs Fundora...

Now UWW has a wrestling style called Grappling with an interesting stand up point system and submissions. An hibrid style between Freestyle wrestling and submission arts.
 
The biggest thing against Folkstyle IMO is you can’t lock hands when on top.

that was a bit of adjustment for me.
 
I already said it on a post but to tldr: folk wrestling guys tend to be more grinders and freestyle guys tend to be more diverse in takedowns, submissions and overall control.
 
Iron Monger said:
Let me start by saying that both are formidable weapons to have un your arsenal. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers have succeeded in the UFC and are actual champs like Usman.

That being said, the propaganda keeps repeating that folkstyle is the most suited to MMA competition because of the ride, because if this and that... People like Chael Sonnen, Ben Askren and such can't shut up about how folkstyle is tailor made for mma, with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

But in fact, is it more effective than freestyle wrestling in the context of mma ? If we look at statistic we see that no. The amount of ncaa/college wrestlers is HUGE in the UFC. I think i could name almost a hundred that have wrestled folkstyle in college just by memory. Compared to that, freestyle wrestlers are but a fraction of the wrestlers on the roster. And yet they are much more dominant. All those dagestanis/chechens with wrestling background make it work, both defensively and offensively..

And most of the time when a folkstyle wrestlers fights a freestyle one he loses the wrestling battle. Look at Khabib vs Abel Trujillo, Pat Healy & Gaethje, Makhachev vs Nick Lentz, Askarov vs Benavidez...

The best wrestlers, the most dominant ones, have been freestyle/olympic style wrestlers. Just look at Khabib, GSP & Cormier. Maybe the 3 best wrestlers in MMA history. And all wrestled freestyle (Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

TDLR: Folkstyle wrestling is good for mma but way too overrated, it's not the best wrestling style for mma, freestyle wrestling is, and freestyle beats folkstyle almost each time they fight

EDIT : A very good point made by our friend @Simple'Slam
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WWE fairytale wrestling probably has some elements to it.
 
Human Bass said:
Khabib is an extremely well rounded grappler, including wrestling. But he didn't compete in a freestyle and his grappling game is very far from the freestyle meta. You mentioned his fight with Abel Trujillo. Thad fight Khabib played guard and locked a triangle.
Freestyle guys aren't comfortable at all playing guard like Khabib.

Also Cormier has trained folk all his life til the end of college. Why you don't mention guys that actually competed their whole life on freestyle like Yoel Romero or Shalorus?
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To be clear, the criteria is not if he has competed in it but if it was his main wrestling training style and base. In khabib's case it is freestyle, he says it himself.

In the Trujillo fight he also set a record for the number of takedown in one round iirc. Yes he was on the bottom one time and showed good bjj off his back. That's hardly playing guard. Playing guard. I'd say rewatch the fight and you'll see a clinic of throws from all angles. It was crazy.

Cormier mixes folk and freestyle it's true, but he trained much more freestyle in his life if you compare competing year, and it was at a way higher level (in fact the Olympics so the highest possible) and it was closer to his mma career. But he did train the two styles that's true it's a fact.

I didn't mention Romero or Shalorus for the same reason i didn't mention Ferguson or Dillashaw, they all were competitive wrestlers but hardly use any offensive wrestling in mma, they're strikers when it comes to cage fighting.

I hope that i have answered your questions. Thanks for the inputs.
 
Human Bass said:
No. And you can't really use Khabib as a freestyle example. A combat Sambo guy with plenty of triangle subs is your example of Olympic freestyle? Lol.

Also GSP never trained for freestyle competition. He trained with freestyle guys, folk and bjj all the time. He trained heavily with Roger Gracie, and we don't call him a bjj guy for that.
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But his point is that it about the training. Like you said GSP trained with freestyle guys. The freestyle wrestling training is what's making them more effective .
 
Stuart0502 said:
Folk style is typically a lower level sport with more emphasis on ground game and less on takedowns.

No surprise those guys lose the takedown battle a fair bit.

Look at how many folk style guys got good at the ground game fast and then look at a guy like Yoel who never goes to the ground because his ground game sucks.
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Fair counterpoint. I agree that freestyle guys have the advantage in takedowns and folkstyle on the ground (the groundwork of freestyle is useless in mma).

But once they both learn solid bjj and top game then it's where freestyle shines, because the ground game levels will average each other in most of the cases while the freestyle guy still has the superior variety of attacks when standing.
 
Iron Monger said:
It's a good point. Obviously the two styles share a lot of similarities. My main point was that GSP style is freestyle, not folkstyle. That's undeniable. And that fighters with the freestyle background have been more successful at mma wrestling, and they are fewer than the folk guys. Which makes freestyle more suited for mma.
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Did you ever wrestle? What is it that GSP does that makes his style freestyle? Its a rule difference, and in MMA those rules do not matter. Its about controlling your opponent and delivering GNP or a Submission, or Lay N Pray. Wrestling is take downs and control in any style. You cant look at GSP and say oh that's way more Folk or Free because he i'snt going for points like that. You don't win by pinning either. Ypu could argue that better MMA guys have wrestled Freestyle, but thats about it. The styles all are melded to fit MMA.
 
I Am Legion said:
Did you ever wrestle? What is it that GSP does that makes his style freestyle? Its a rule difference, and in MMA those rules do not matter. Its about controlling your opponent and delivering GNP or a Submission, or Lay N Pray. Wrestling is take downs and control in any style. You cant look at GSP and say oh that's way more Folk or Free because he i'snt going for points like that. You don't win by pinning either. Ypu could argue that better MMA guys have wrestled Freestyle, but thats about it. The styles all are melded to fit MMA.
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The background of his Russian wrestling coach..
 
I Am Legion said:
Did you ever wrestle? What is it that GSP does that makes his style freestyle? Its a rule difference, and in MMA those rules do not matter. Its about controlling your opponent and delivering GNP or a Submission, or Lay N Pray. Wrestling is take downs and control in any style. You cant look at GSP and say oh that's way more Folk or Free because he i'snt going for points like that. You don't win by pinning either. Ypu could argue that better MMA guys have wrestled Freestyle, but thats about it. The styles all are melded to fit MMA.
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I've wrestled two months of freestyle this year but then the gym shut down because of covid restrictions. Folkstyle does not exist in my country but i understand the differences between the two.

And i agree of course the two will share a lot of similarities.

Freestyle has the advantage to have a wider variety of takedowns in my opinion.

And yes my point is exactly what you said at the end, better mma guys have wrestled freestyle. Which means in translates better for whatever reason, a lot of them have been hinted in the thread.
 
Reach4theSky said:
Just wait till we see a Kirkpinar wrestler..

q-CLf6.gif
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Okay wtf is going on there?
 
Human Bass said:
No. And you can't really use Khabib as a freestyle example. A combat Sambo guy with plenty of triangle subs is your example of Olympic freestyle? Lol.

Also GSP never trained for freestyle competition. He trained with freestyle guys, folk and bjj all the time. He trained heavily with Roger Gracie, and we don't call him a bjj guy for that.
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Not true. GSP's grappling base is pure freestyle in a club full of eastern euros.
 
Luvhawky said:
All of GSPs techniques are folk. Cormier definitely used freestyle but was a folk wrestler first and Khabib doesn’t use many freestyle techniques. I don’t know much about Sambo but I have a feeling that is the main discipline being employed but again don’t know much about it. Just as much as the next guy.
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GSP never trained Folkstyle one day on his life. Why would you just say something so wrong?
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Not true. GSP's grappling base is pure freestyle in a club full of eastern euros.
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Sure, he was never known for travelling hours to train with Renzo at New York. There are no videos of him with John Danaher, Roger Gracie and such.
 
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