Freestyle wrestling is more effective than folkstyle in mma

[Grappler111]

There's nothing surprising about this. Freestyle is an international level sport while Folkstyle is a national level sport. The competitive pool in an international level sport is far deeper than the one in a national sport. Simply put, freestyle chads have to overcome far tougher competition if they want to compete at a high level compared to collegiate wrestlers and as everyone knows: iron sharpens iron.

Also, at this point even combat sambo - a sport that has a smaller talent pool than folkstyle, is proving to be more effective in MMA than folkstyle:

World Combat Sambo champion Khabib outwrestled D1 Gaethje
World Combat Sambo champion Islam outwrestled D1 Lentz
World Combat Sambo champion Amosov outwrestled D1 Ed Ruth and D1 Logan Storley.
World Combat Sambo champion Nemkov outwrestled D1 Phil Davis.

Even though folkstyle talent pool is bigger, combat sambo talent pool is outright better. Must be due to the fact that combat sambo practitioners have to compete against the best from all over the world, not just their own country.

Storley won that fight. Not outwrestled.

Khabib started in young age with freestyle and you can see a lot of Russian freestylers compete in UWW Pankration, UWW Grappling or other styles like this :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...-ibragimov-man-beat-khabib-nurmagomedov-fight

 

[Grappler111]

Jacare is a lot more of a top game Grappler than is off of his back also even when Romero was younger he wasn't very good at wrestling in MMA at least on the ground. There's a reason why the freestyle Grapplers from the caucus region have much better ground game and it's because they also do Judo and Sambo

Not only. Russian wrestling federation contrary to other national federations like USA wrestling support a lot the other non Olympic wrestling styles under UWW like Grappling (gi and Nogi) and Pankration. Grappling has more emphasis on ground fighting respect judo or sambo.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Not only. Russian wrestling federation contrary to other national federations like USA wrestling support a lot the other non Olympic wrestling styles under UWW like Grappling (gi and Nogi) and Pankration. Grappling has more emphasis on ground fighting respect judo or sambo.

Good point. I think when comparing freestyle vs folkstyle the Russians shouldn't be considered as they do many grappling styles other that freestyle. Islam and Khabib's mat wrestling looks a whole lot like Jake Shields and Ben Askren's mat wrestling.

 

[DoctorsStoppage]

Habib doesn't even have rasslin credentials, yet he made D1 Gadje look like an absolute rookie on the mat.
I think we will see Russian dominance in mma for the next 20 years or so.

 

[cooks1]

Let me start by saying that both are formidable weapons to have un your arsenal. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers have succeeded in the UFC and are actual champs like Usman.

That being said, the propaganda keeps repeating that folkstyle is the most suited to MMA competition because of the ride, because if this and that... People like Chael Sonnen, Ben Askren and such can't shut up about how folkstyle is tailor made for mma, with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

But in fact, is it more effective than freestyle wrestling in the context of mma ? If we look at statistic we see that no. The amount of ncaa/college wrestlers is HUGE in the UFC. I think i could name almost a hundred that have wrestled folkstyle in college just by memory. Compared to that, freestyle wrestlers are but a fraction of the wrestlers on the roster. And yet they are much more dominant. All those dagestanis/chechens with wrestling background make it work, both defensively and offensively..

And most of the time when a folkstyle wrestlers fights a freestyle one he loses the wrestling battle. Look at Khabib vs Abel Trujillo, Pat Healy & Gaethje, Makhachev vs Nick Lentz, Askarov vs Benavidez...

The best wrestlers, the most dominant ones, have been freestyle/olympic style wrestlers. Just look at Khabib, GSP & Cormier. Maybe the 3 best wrestlers in MMA history. And all wrestled freestyle (Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

TDLR: Folkstyle wrestling is good for mma but way too overrated, it's not the best wrestling style for mma, freestyle wrestling is, and freestyle beats folkstyle almost each time they fight

EDIT : A very good point made by our friend @Simple'Slam

Not to knock freestyle, but none of the fighters you mentioned prove your point. None are freestyle wrestlers. Combat Sambo wrestling is not freestyle wrestling. And nearly every American MMA fighter that had freestyle success, even CCC, wrestled folkstyle first, and had success in that style.

If you want to make the argument, go ahead and list the pure freestyle specialists dominant in MMA. I'll wait.

LOL, you did not even mention the one fighter that comes closest to making your point (CCC).

 

[Grappler111]

GSPs coach isn't teaching him freestyle he's teaching him wrestling for MMA.

GSP trains freestyle wrestling under a Russian coach :

"I finally succeedded on putting a smile on coach Victor's face after giving him my MW championship belt. Thanks to Club de lutte de Montréal (Montreal Wrestling Club) and YMHA for your help in the last 15 years. Happy to give my new MW belt to coach Victor - I owe a big part of my success in the octagon to the Montréal Wrestling Club and YMHA!"

About Khabib's background :
https://www.bjjee.com/videos/video-...school-training-in-dagestan-mountains-russia/

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Not to knock freestyle, but none of the fighters you mentioned prove your point. None are freestyle wrestlers. Combat Sambo wrestling is not freestyle wrestling. And nearly every American MMA fighter that had freestyle success, even CCC, wrestled folkstyle first, and had success in that style.

If you want to make the argument, go ahead and list the pure freestyle specialists dominant in MMA. I'll wait.

LOL, you did not even mention the one fighter that comes closest to making your point (CCC).

Romero is probably the best example of a pure freestyle wrestler though CCC is another good one.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

GSP trains freestyle wrestling under a Russian coach :

"I finally succeedded on putting a smile on coach Victor's face after giving him my MW championship belt. Thanks to Club de lutte de Montréal (Montreal Wrestling Club) and YMHA for your help in the last 15 years. Happy to give my new MW belt to coach Victor - I owe a big part of my success in the octagon to the Montréal Wrestling Club and YMHA!"

About Khabib's background :
https://www.bjjee.com/videos/video-...school-training-in-dagestan-mountains-russia/

GSP doesn't train freestyle he trains wrestling specifically for MMA

 

[cooks1]

Romero is probably the best example of a pure freestyle wrestler though CCC is another good one.

Yes! Romero would be a great example. I did not mention him because he was never champ. But he would almost certainly be the best example of a freestyle specialist achieving MMA success. CCC had a base in folkstyle, but he achieved his freestyle success along with folkstyle, and mainly specialized in freestyle from the beginning due to his brother. They are the 2 best examples.

Almost without exception, every other American wrestler and Russian wrestler did not specialize in freestyle. They specialized in another style and added freestyle. They achieved success in freestyle largely do to their formative base in another style.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Yes! Romero would be a great example. I did not mention him because he was never champ. But he would almost certainly be the best example of a freestyle specialist achieving MMA success. CCC had a base in folkstyle, but he achieved his freestyle success along with folkstyle, and mainly specialized in freestyle from the beginning due to his brother. They are the 2 best examples.

Almost without exception, every other American wrestler and Russian wrestler did not specialize in freestyle. They specialized in another style and added freestyle. They achieved success in freestyle largely do to their formative base in another style.

Yep and Cuba doesn't do Folkstyle and their wrestlers tend not to cross train in other wrestling styles like Sambo or Judo so Romero is the most successful pure freestyle wrestler I can think of and his grappling really shows that as he is much better at the TDD/takedown game than he is at mat wrestling.

 

[mantadave]

You dont put your coat on to have fight catch wreslting is the best or freestyle

 

[cooks1]

Yep and Cuba doesn't do Folkstyle and their wrestlers tend not to cross train in other wrestling styles like Sambo or Judo so Romero is the most successful pure freestyle wrestler I can think of and his grappling really shows that as he is much better at the TDD/takedown game than he is at mat wrestling.

 

[Grappler111]

Romero is probably the best example of a pure freestyle wrestler though CCC is another good one.

Ali Isaev another. He defeated many multi time combat sambo world champions in mma. The point is a top freestyler in Russia, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc has a lot of opportunities (money and prizes). Others like Chimaev without a successful professional freestyle wrestling career...

In this discussion there is not a true purist in freestyle, folkstyle, combat sambo etc...

 

[Deleted member 512089]

GSPs coach isn't teaching him freestyle he's teaching him wrestling for MMA.

GSP trained extensively with the Canadian national wrestling team which is a team with many Russians. Montréal wrestling club is a Caucasus diaspora club. So yeah GSP's wrestling lineage comes from freestyle.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Yes! Romero would be a great example. I did not mention him because he was never champ. But he would almost certainly be the best example of a freestyle specialist achieving MMA success. CCC had a base in folkstyle, but he achieved his freestyle success along with folkstyle, and mainly specialized in freestyle from the beginning due to his brother. They are the 2 best examples.

Almost without exception, every other American wrestler and Russian wrestler did not specialize in freestyle. They specialized in another style and added freestyle. They achieved success in freestyle largely do to their formative base in another style.

Cejudo also boxed growing up and kept many early fights standing

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

GSP trained extensively with the Canadian national wrestling team which is a team with many Russians. Montréal wrestling club is a Caucasus diaspora club. So yeah GSP's wrestling lineage comes from freestyle.

Bro you still don't see to understand. GSP was not training freestyle wrestling dude. He's not learning gut wrenches and leg laces. He's training with those guys to apply wrestling in MMA. He clearly focused on his sprawl and blast double. Just like any a fighter training with Cejudo isn't learning freestyle, they are learning wrestling for MMA (sprawl, doubles/singles, maybe a hip toss, hand fighting, whizzer, etc) not how to hit a 5 point throw

 

[Kertol]

Catch Wrestling is the superior one and the father of both of them. The only one that can compete with Catch Wrestling is Greco Roman because it’s not on the same family tree.

Guys like Sakuraba, Barnett are incredible to watch and had a complete Arsenal for grappling without having to cross train.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Let me start by saying that both are formidable weapons to have un your arsenal. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers have succeeded in the UFC and are actual champs like Usman.

That being said, the propaganda keeps repeating that folkstyle is the most suited to MMA competition because of the ride, because if this and that... People like Chael Sonnen, Ben Askren and such can't shut up about how folkstyle is tailor made for mma, with askren going as far as calling it "the most superior martial arts in existence" (LOL)

But in fact, is it more effective than freestyle wrestling in the context of mma ? If we look at statistic we see that no. The amount of ncaa/college wrestlers is HUGE in the UFC. I think i could name almost a hundred that have wrestled folkstyle in college just by memory. Compared to that, freestyle wrestlers are but a fraction of the wrestlers on the roster. And yet they are much more dominant. All those dagestanis/chechens with wrestling background make it work, both defensively and offensively..

And most of the time when a folkstyle wrestlers fights a freestyle one he loses the wrestling battle. Look at Khabib vs Abel Trujillo, Pat Healy & Gaethje, Makhachev vs Nick Lentz, Askarov vs Benavidez...

The best wrestlers, the most dominant ones, have been freestyle/olympic style wrestlers. Just look at Khabib, GSP & Cormier. Maybe the 3 best wrestlers in MMA history. And all wrestled freestyle (Cormier did also folkstyle i give it to you).

TDLR: Folkstyle wrestling is good for mma but way too overrated, it's not the best wrestling style for mma, freestyle wrestling is, and freestyle beats folkstyle almost each time they fight

EDIT : A very good point made by our friend @Simple'Slam

It's like you guys don't even listen to the fighters you are promoting for.

Khabib said judo not wrestling is good base.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Folkstyle wrestlers have the ability to take, hold someone down and are hard to keep down themselves.

Freestyle wrestlers can definitely take people down but they aren't as good at holding people down and getting up themselves.

Greco-Roman wrestlers imo are the best suited. They can do everything the other wrestlers can be plus they take people down without putting their necks in danger.

 

[campbecc]

Folkstyle wrestlers have the ability to take, hold someone down and are hard to keep down themselves.

Freestyle wrestlers can definitely take people down but they aren't as good at holding people down and getting up themselves.

Greco-Roman wrestlers imo are the best suited. They can do everything the other wrestlers can be plus they take people down without putting their necks in danger.

Greco doesn't allow holds before the waist. So no it on it's own is not better on it's own.