Foot or Shin?

Ill agree with the second part of that statement, but if you think the bones in your foot are so rediculously strong, I suggest you smash your instep with a ball peen hammer a few times, and see if you can walk it off.

Foot injuries happen all the time in fights.

when you walk and run, the impact is disperesed evenly across the bottom of your foot, with large bones at the front and back of your foot....the bones in your instep dont take any real direct pressure, like they do when throwing a kick, and hitting the point of someones elbow, or someones knee.....its apples and oranges.
 
Before I did Muay Thai, I did Kung Fu, and an art called Imua Kuon Tao. I kicked with the instep and with the balls of my feet with the toes curled back and not once did I get hurt. I kicked the heavy bag, and broke boards and everything (that was back in my TMA days... :redface: ) I like using the shin now but if choose, sometimes I'll use the instep. Despite whatever the anatomy says, the people that wrote those books never kicked a heavy bag.
 
breaking, that doesnt prove anything man....hell, people break boards with thier hands too....with thier frickin fingers, but does that mean that they wouldnt get a broken hand in a fight?....one of the most common injuries out there!
 
I didn't say that breaking really proved anything by itself. I thought back then it did but I also believed in Chi back then too. No I was merely adding to the point that I made. I never said anything about not breaking your foot in fighting, I was really just saying that from personal experience I have never broken my foot on a heavy bag. I will say this though, when I used to kick witht he instep, sometimes I would hit my sparring partners elbow and that really hurts. I can see how someone could break their foor like that.
 
I dont know of anyone who has broken thier foot on a heavybag either, but that wasnt what I was talking about.

mainly its just not very smart to practice bad habits....yeah you arent going to break your foot on a bag, but I wouldnt make a habit of aiming with the foot.
 
The shin is definitely more powerful. Make sure you're kicking right (that is if you're doing Muay Thai). The power doesn't come from a snap of the leg, but from the violent twisting of the hips.

Go up to a heavybag. Kick like I just explained. First hit with your foot. The foot makes a loud slapping noise. Sounds pretty powerful right? Now connect with your shin, and really dig your shinbone in. You won't get that same thunder-like SLAP! that you got from your foot, but if you're kicking right, you should have seen the bag fold or jump in some way. THAT is power.

Put it this way. Everyone knows that on a baseball bat, there is a "sweet spot." Some bats even come with a red line painted on this sweet spot. It's the point of the bat where you can generate the best power for a home run. Now where is the sweet spot located? It's not at the end of the bat. It's more towards the center of the thick part. You should think of your legs as baseball bats. Use the "sweet spot" of your legs (your lower shin), and drive a home run through your target with violent rotational force.

Whenever I kick my Thai bag, it immediately becomes apparent that the shin is just overall better than the foot. First off, if I'm not connecting with my shin, and more with my foot, my toes and feet start to really hurt (I own a TKO 125 pound Thai bag; the thing is stuffed SOLID as a rock; my shins used to bruise like crazy whenever I hit it). When I kick with my shins, obviously, I save my feet. Not only that though, but when I connect with my feet, I barely move the bag. I make it swing, but you should be focusing on folding the bag, not moving it. Now when I hit with my SHIN, I watch this behemoth bag start to fold, and it even "jumps" up a little bit. That's the point where my family starts to complain that the house is shaking.

Here's another thing. Basic science tells us that the more dense an object is, the less it disperses force when it strikes something. What hurts more to get hit with (if the objects travel at the same speed), a 16 ounce glove or a 1 pound rock? The harder an object is, the less energy wasted when it transfers energy to another object. This is one of the big reasons proper bone alignment in a punch is important. If your wrist buckles when you punch something, not only do you hurt your wrist, but the energy isn't entirely dispersed into the bag or opponent. If you hit a bag with your fist unclenched, and then hit it with it clenched, which is more powerful?

Likewise, the less moving parts on a weapon, the better it is. Your foot is held onto your leg by your ankle. The ankle is movable. So when you hit the bag, your ankle will most likely move in at least some small way. That's wasted kinetic energy. Now think of the shin. It's one big, solid piece of bone. You hit something with that, and you can guarantee that the receiving end of a blow from the shin will take all of the force of that strike. The shin is sharp, solid, and hard.

That's why Muay Thai kicks are so much more powerful than traditional martial art "snap" roundhouse kicks. Traditional artists use the muscle of the quadricep to power a snap of the knee, and connect with the foot. Now, compare that to using the power from your core (the center of all athletic movements and power), generating extreme rotational force, and connecting with the solid, sharp, and unyielding shin.
 
Iceman5592 said:
That's why Muay Thai kicks are so much more powerful than traditional martial art "snap" roundhouse kicks. Traditional artists use the muscle of the quadricep to power a snap of the knee, and connect with the foot. Now, compare that to using the power from your core (the center of all athletic movements and power), generating extreme rotational force, and connecting with the solid, sharp, and unyielding shin.
Why do people continue doing these silly posts about quadriceps and "snap"?

Not only is it a ridiculous overgeneralisation ("traditional martial artists use ...", although there are literally hundreds of traditional martial arts, and millions upon millions of practitioners), but it is also blatantly incorrect for many of them.
 
ahh yes the quads for kicking and only using snap.... haha. Tkd kicks are all hip and the chamber adds extra torque. as mentioned in previous analogies, tkd kicks are like a ball and chain. If you think they dont hurt, youre welcome to spar any half decent wtf practitioner. I hate to use personal stories over the internet but At 140 lbs i continually knock my 100lb bag off its chains, and ive dropped my 240lb brother while he had a hogu on.
 
FCFighter316 said:
ok so now we are left with a new question:
HOW DO WE CONDITION OUR FEET?
THE SAME WA...... The same way you condition your shins, it takes longer than the conditioning of the shin though.
 
MT kicks should aim to hit with shin, esp low/mid kicks. For head kicks aim shin and if only foot connects you'll be OK.
 
Seriously, why is this argument still going on? Honestly.
 
Kyryllo said:
THE SAME WA...... The same way you condition your shins, it takes longer than the conditioning of the shin though.

you can't. conditioning the instep is the same as conditioning the fist so it's less likely to break.

in addition, when you "condition" your shins, you're not making them structurally stronger (altho it does but only slightly). you're just desensitizing the nerves.
 
I personally use the shin.1)This conditions you shins.2)I use the shin in most all my low kicks from thee waist down.3) then shin does more damage when used proplery
 
BlackBeltNow said:
you can't. conditioning the instep is the same as conditioning the fist so it's less likely to break.

in addition, when you "condition" your shins, you're not making them structurally stronger (altho it does but only slightly). you're just desensitizing the nerves.
Oh please! How the fuck should you know what people can or can't? Through repetitive impacts the stability of bone tissue increases, this is a fucking physiological fact! The desensitisation is the second part and can been done to shins, feet, fists or any other part of the body. The next time you have the feeling you have to post something smart count to 10 and don't do it.
 
Note to people in the "shin" camp: yes, striking with the instep hurts at first. So does getting whacked on the shin. With proper training and conditioning, striking with either surface hurts less over time. It's a simple fact of training.

Honestly, like Chthon I find myself wondering why this is even a debatable topic. Thousands upon thousands of MA practitioners strike with the instep. Thousands upon thousand more strike with the shin. They both hurt the person throwing the strike when they're a newbie, they both hurt the person on the business end when the thrower is experienced.

I've spent years training TKD and sparring. I spent more years (up to and including the present) landing hundreds of kicks with both insteps every week going full-bore on a heavybag which barely sucks up the force of my blows, leaving me often striking the solid post in the middle. I've broken one-- ONE--bone in that time: my 5th metatarsal, when I was a yellow belt trying to pull off a technique in sparring I was nowhere mastering and landed on the outer edge of the foot on my plant leg wrong. If hitting with the instep was inherently dangerous, I'd be in the hospital every few months getting x-rays or, at the very least, having to cease kicking while nursing a busted-up and sore foot. As it happens, this has heppened once, and once only, during the aforementioned mishap in which my plant foot (not my kicking foot) got busted due to poor technique.

Kicking with the instep works, and can deliver crushing force on a target. Period. Full stop. End of friggin' story.

If you want to debate which is *better*, that's subjective; I'm interested in only hearing people who've trained using both methods. Otherwise, it's a non-issue. If you want to argue that striking with the instep is bad, fine...you're wrong.
 
Kyryllo said:
Oh please! How the fuck should you know what people can or can't? Through repetitive impacts the stability of bone tissue increases, this is a fucking physiological fact! The desensitisation is the second part and can been done to shins, feet, fists or any other part of the body. The next time you have the feeling you have to post something smart count to 10 and don't do it.

that "tissue repair" is SCAR tissue. scars are always weaker than the original. that is physiological fact.
 
Kyryllo said:
Oh please! How the fuck should you know what people can or can't? Through repetitive impacts the stability of bone tissue increases, this is a fucking physiological fact! The desensitisation is the second part and can been done to shins, feet, fists or any other part of the body. The next time you have the feeling you have to post something smart count to 10 and don't do it.

next time you critique people's comments, please have cross trained in at least one more martial art by then, k?
 
BlackBeltNow said:
that "tissue repair" is SCAR tissue. scars are always weaker than the original. that is physiological fact.
Oh My Fucking GOD!!! Look up at least in a book or on the net what scar tissue is! "Physiological fact!" You spread so much shit it's not even possible, everything you say is coming straight out of your ass.

For you to know: the scar tissue can be only built in the soft tissue such as skin, muscles and connective tissue, not in the bones! Through repetitive impacts the bone tissue is forced to natural functional adoptation in the substantiae spongiosa and compacta, especialy in the s. spongiosa, this increases the density of the bone. If the repetitive impacts go away, the bone adapts to the new less intence forces and losses it's density.

It's not bad if you don't know all this stuff. I know this beacuase I study it, you probably don't, it's OK but quit posting about something you have not a flying fart of an Idea about, please.
 
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