Foot or Shin?

[Kyryllo]

intep or shin. End of discussion. Kicking people with your foot will break your toes or foot unless you catch them in front of the neck. Then you're just bitch slapping their face with your foot (Like horn did to Chuck in their first fight) and that's not going to knock anyone out.

Did you just say you can't knock people out with the foot?????

 

[BlackBeltNow]

Did you just say you can't knock people out with the foot?????

its okay to kick w/ the instep (im tired of arguing. say foot if u want) to the head b/c it doesn't have a lot of inertia/resistance/normalforce, so u're likely to kick "through" the head w/o experience resistance on ur ankle. But when you kick the body or leg w/ ur feet, u'll hurt ur ankle b/c these parts are heavier and there will be more pressure on ur ankle as it gets torqued by the power of your kick and the target.

 

[True2KungFu]

the shin is more dense so it will lead to a more thudding impact but that doesnt mean it would have any more power transfer than kicking someone with the instep.

Like kryllo said, if you condition your instep it works just fine, in fact i find it is preferred. This is coming from someone who used to kick thai-style but now throws tkd roundhouses.

Only time my instep ever got sore was from repeatedly having my kicks bounce off the points of someones elbows.

 

[Hurricane Brad]

If I'm kicking at head height on my bag, I kick with my instep. At body height, I kick with my shin. It actually seems to hurt my shin alot more, but my bag is quite a bit more solid at body height.

 

[TheHighlander]

its okay to kick w/ the instep (im tired of arguing. say foot if u want) to the head b/c it doesn't have a lot of inertia/resistance/normalforce, so u're likely to kick "through" the head w/o experience resistance on ur ankle. But when you kick the body or leg w/ ur feet, u'll hurt ur ankle b/c these parts are heavier and there will be more pressure on ur ankle as it gets torqued by the power of your kick and the target.

No. I've been kicking with my instep for most of 13 years. I was introduced to using the shin 10 years ago. I use the instep more in sparring because of the longer available range. Take a look at the physics. The instep is a short level arm on the ankle. It can take considerably more force than you can kick with.

 

[BlackBeltNow]

No. I've been kicking with my instep for most of 13 years. I was introduced to using the shin 10 years ago. I use the instep more in sparring because of the longer available range. Take a look at the physics. The instep is a short level arm on the ankle. It can take considerably more force than you can kick with.

exactly it is the short part of the lever arm. for ever action there is a reaction. When you kick w/ the tip of your feet, there is greater torque (damage) on ur ankle than if u kicked w/ the base of ur feet. unlike comparing kicking higher or lower in the shin or a baseball bat, when discussing feet, u have to remember you're introducing a weak joint into the problem. kicking beyond the instep will be like impulse-toe holding yourself.

 

[BlackBeltNow]

i can't edit my post, but i meant to say after "for every action there is a reaction" i was referring to the resistance the opponent gives yoru shin/feet when you kick it. that "reaction" or "resistance" force is what torques ur ankle if u kick below the instep. Think of the ankle like a nut, and the foot as a wrench. you can turn the bolt better by applying force at the end of it (i.e. toe) than closer to the base (instep), and in this case you DON'T want to turn the bolt.

 

[Richard Emling]

shin

 

[Gregster]

Foot or shin? Depends on how you train. There is no "wrong" way. Arts like TKD, karate and kickboxing that stirke with the instep use kicks which are intended to focus energy on a specific point of impact, whereas as Muay Thai (from what I've gathered) favors plowing through the target. Two ways t skin the same cat.

BBN: if there was a Sherdog Church of the Clueless Imbecile, you would be pope. Every time I think you can't post anything more idiotic than the last item you've posted, you surprise me anew-- this time, by essentially saying that nobody in the history of Karate, TKD, Savate, kickboxing, or God-knows-how-many other arts has connected a solid roundhouse kick. Instead, people fool themselves into thinking their shots have power; that's classic. You might be amazed how many live individuals I've fooled into thinking I can kick hard by giving them bruises and making them double over in pain. I've also managed to regularly fool my 225-pound free-standing heavybag into moving all over the living room the same way.

I'm convinced at this point you don't even train; nobody who actually trains could possibly believe the nonsense you continually spout here.

 

[TwIsTeD&BrOkEn]

you need to turn your hip over more as you kick......personally I dont know if you train or not, so you probably dont understand what Im saying, but I will tell you this, if you are throwing your kicks with power, you want to connect with your shin....you have a lot of small bones in your foot that can be broken on knees or elbows....your shin is a bit more durable.

usually when it comes to highkicks, its ok if your foot connects....you dont have to throw a high kick mega hard to knock someone out, and classicaly, high kicks are weaker than lowkicks regardless.

Cro Cop aims with his shin...any time you see him hit someone in the body or the legs with his instep, its usually because either he or his opponent had moved out of shin range...and thats all right, they still hurt, but the problem is if they are knee blocking, or elbow blocking, you could break a toe, or one of the bones in your instep, or really mess up your ankle...both of these things have happened to me in the past....most of the time when you kick a thai bag, even if you connect with the shin, your foot is still gonna impact a little...newbs to muay thai often hurt themselves because they kick the pads or the bag with thier feet too much.

after kicking enough, if you happen to hit the bag or pads with your foot, it wont be that big of a deal....but dont think you can kick people with your foot all the time and get away with it....you will eventually learn that lesson when you get caught with a hard offensive block.

its just good common sense to TRY to hit them with your shin.

 

[Gregster]

you need to turn your hip over more as you kick......personally I dont know if you train or not, so you probably dont understand what Im saying, but I will tell you this, if you are throwing your kicks with power, you want to connect with your shin....you have a lot of small bones in your foot that can be broken on knees or elbows....your shin is a bit more durable.

i've trained quite a bit in the past, in the rare TKD school that had lots of hard sparring, and still do plenty of heavybag work as part of my exercise regimen. Rest assured, I can generate a helluva lot of power landing roundhouse kisk with my instep, and guys I've trained with and trained under can deliver far more. Bear in mind, T&B, the bones of your foot comprise the two main load-bearing members of your entire body and can (and do) absorb a punishing amount of force doing any number of thing, such as running on pavement. Bone is one of the hardest, most dense substances in existance.

Conversely, if the shin was so tough, we'd not have any gag-inducing videos showing kickboxers snapping their shins.

I've connected with people's elbows lots of times, and while it does hurt like a mofo hitting them with the instep, I've not known anyone to break any bones.

Also, TKD kicking done properly involves turning your hips over as you say; examine stills and video of good TKD kickers and you'll see what I mean. The mechanics of TKD and Muay Thai kicking are not completely different.

I'm getting ready to get back into training now that I have time, money, and medical insurance. I've settled in a school that teaches BJJ and Vale Tudo, the latter includes boxing and Muay Thai. I'll kick how I'm trained, and will indeed be interested in what I find doing so.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

BBN, are you made of fucking sugar? WTF?

I've never even felt discomfort when connecting with a heavy bag or ribs using the instep. The only thing that hurts is hitting a shin or an elbow, and this happens so fucking often in TKD that we'd all have broken our insteps a million times if this were the case. Actually, I've never heard of a top TKD guy breaking his instep.

You need to kick more and leave philosophy to others.

 

[TwIsTeD&BrOkEn]

i've trained quite a bit in the past, in the rare TKD school that had lots of hard sparring, and still do plenty of heavybag work as part of my exercise regimen. Rest assured, I can generate a helluva lot of power landing roundhouse kisk with my instep, and guys I've trained with and trained under can deliver far more. Bear in mind, T&B, the bones of your foot comprise the two main load-bearing members of your entire body and can (and do) absorb a punishing amount of force doing any number of thing, such as running on pavement. Bone is one of the hardest, most dense substances in existance.

Conversely, if the shin was so tough, we'd not have any gag-inducing videos showing kickboxers snapping their shins.

I've connected with people's elbows lots of times, and while it does hurt like a mofo hitting them with the instep, I've not known anyone to break any bones.

Also, TKD kicking done properly involves turning your hips over as you say; examine stills and video of good TKD kickers and you'll see what I mean. The mechanics of TKD and Muay Thai kicking are not completely different.

I'm getting ready to get back into training now that I have time, money, and medical insurance. I've settled in a school that teaches BJJ and Vale Tudo, the latter includes boxing and Muay Thai. I'll kick how I'm trained, and will indeed be interested in what I find doing so.

oh....that one video?....yeah I saw that...can you name another instance in which thats happened?....people break thier toes and fracture thier ankles all the time....Greats like Peter Aerts, guys who are USED to kicking, have met a hard block in just such a way that they couldnt continue...even while wearing ankle wraps.

Listen Im not saying you cant kick hard with your instep....its right on the end of the energy youre building up, so of course you can kick very hard with it, but that wasnt the point.

I am also not trying to get in any arguements, especially any sort of TKD vs MUAY THAI bullcrap, because I am SO over that....one of the reasons why I dont often post anymore.

what I say I say out of experience and observation, if you do it your way and it works for you, fine, more power to ya, hope you never get injured, but I have enough injuries personally, and Ill take the steps to make sure I have as few as possible in the future.

 

[Gregster]

oh....that one video?....yeah I saw that...can you name another instance in which thats happened?....people break thier toes and fracture thier ankles all the time....Greats like Peter Aerts, guys who are USED to kicking, have met a hard block in just such a way that they couldnt continue...even while wearing ankle wraps.

I've seen a couple. Yes, I'm aware that shin breaks are an extreme anomaly. But in my experience so are broken foot bone from hitting with the instep. If you were right, I can't imagine a single decent school teaching almost anything other than Muay Thai staying open for business due to students constantly being put out of commission by broken foot bones. I'd expect busted feet to be an epidemic in sport Karate and TKD. Conversely, I'd expect far more arts to employ shin strikles.

I could point out that hitting an opponents shin is a common dirt trick for self-defense; the pain of getting whacked in the shins is enough to put most people on their knees. I could then sya it logically follows that shin strikes are ineffective for that reason, and I'd course be wrong since half of Thailand alone would prove it.

I am also not trying to get in any arguements, especially any sort of TKD vs MUAY THAI bullcrap, because I am SO over that....one of the reasons why I dont often post anymore.

Nor I...that shit is lame, and done to death here.

I'm not in any way shape or form suggesting the superiority of one over the other, simple that they are two different ways to get the same job done.

what I say I say out of experience and observation,

Same here.

if you do it your way and it works for you, fine, more power to ya, hope you never get injured, but I have enough injuries personally, and Ill take the steps to make sure I have as few as possible in the future.

Lie I said: I intend to be training (among other things) Muay Thai soon. If you're correct, I'll be adjusting my technique.

 

[Chthon]

Wow, I thought we were beyond this...

Kick with your shin or foot? I say, kick with what your instructor tells you to. If he focuses on kicks with the foot, then he may not be able to train you to kick with your shin. If he focuses on kicks with the shin, then he may not be able to train you to kick with your foot. Or perhaps he, like many coaches, trains to kick with both.

That's beyond the point. Just train in what he tells you to, because if you train in something he doesn't do then your more or less on your own.

 

[grapling101]

I kick with the foot, when I kick with the shin even when I pull my foot back or point it I can feel my foot pop from hitting the bag. Even when fighting I kick with the foot. It still hurts like hell to recive it, leavs a better looking bruise also.

 

[Elpresidente]

When kicking a bag do you connect with the foot or the shin? I seem to kick harder with hitting the top of my foot. But I was told that the shin is the only place you should kick with?

The shin. Always with the shin.

The Shin, the whole shin and nothing but the shin.

 

[TwIsTeD&BrOkEn]

I've seen a couple. Yes, I'm aware that shin breaks are an extreme anomaly. But in my experience so are broken foot bone from hitting with the instep. If you were right, I can't imagine a single decent school teaching almost anything other than Muay Thai staying open for business due to students constantly being put out of commission by broken foot bones. I'd expect busted feet to be an epidemic in sport Karate and TKD. Conversely, I'd expect far more arts to employ shin strikles.

I could point out that hitting an opponents shin is a common dirt trick for self-defense; the pain of getting whacked in the shins is enough to put most people on their knees. I could then sya it logically follows that shin strikes are ineffective for that reason, and I'd course be wrong since half of Thailand alone would prove it.



Nor I...that shit is lame, and done to death here.

I'm not in any way shape or form suggesting the superiority of one over the other, simple that they are two different ways to get the same job done.



Same here.



Lie I said: I intend to be training (among other things) Muay Thai soon. If you're correct, I'll be adjusting my technique.

you dont see many broken foot bones from training, but fractured toes and sprained ankles are reasonably common.....Ive fractured just about every toe on both feet, and I STILL dont know whats wrong with my left ankle...thats also from not tapping to achilles locks all the time when rolling.

Never the less, in actual muay thai fights, breaks happen a lot....almost as much hand breaks. (a muay thai fight or a western kickboxing fight is not like a sport karate or TKD competiton, Im sure youre not going to dispute that...anyone who has seen either would agree.)

as for hitting people in the shins, you might get some reaction out of a guy who hasnt conditioned his shins, but I dont think it would bother me that much, and my Muay Thai coach would just laugh at you if you hit him in the shin.....often youre encouraged to block low kicks by checking it WITH your shin, so in time they become really tough. a lot of time is spent on conditioning them, because a big part of muay thai are leg kicks, of course.

 

[Kyryllo]

To those who say "foot is so weak, a lot of tiny bones that break easily" and stuff like that. This is total crap. The tarsal bones are the ones the hardest bones of the whole body, metatarsal bones are the robustest hollow bones. The talus and os naviculare are very massive bones and nothing near tiny, the 3 cuneiforme bones and the cuboideum are not that big but very compact and strong. These bones have to withstand great stress everyday while running, jumping. For example if you land on your feet from a 1m high platform the first metatarsal bone gets under stress 10x greater than your own bodyweight. For the bone it's a normal stress and nothing to bother about. The stress that the bone experiences while kicking comes not even close to this. The shin is a big and strong bone and brekes rarily, but don't think that a bonebreak is the only trauma a bone can have. If there is an impact on the bone it shows a reaction, smaller bones break, bigger bones don't but still there is a disruption that remaines and causes a degenarative aftermath.

There is nothing wrong to kick with the shin, also there is nothing wrong with the foot. Kick whatever you like with. But don't try to covince others with those "too dangerous" comments. The shin isn't there for kicking in first place, either is the foot, if you kick you missuse the body parts in an unnatural way and this may cause injuries, just get clear with it.

 

[triggertap79]

shin, always.