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Do you beleive in god?

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Zen Machine, Jul 21, 2002.

  1. Tenacious T Orange Belt

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    First of all Razor w/ my jidding i wasn't singlin out you man I was joking about most of us here myself included, we do spend a lot of time on here many of us.

    Capt.Fuktard u've really held your own man, you don't need much help from me. I think your most important point was faith isn't supposed to be a tangible thing, not at all. That's what faith is belief w/o reason. It's like taking a giant step over a cliff hoping you won't fallyou can never be positive until u test it out. And from personal experience praying does help, soem might call it coincidence but even in my most skeptical moments i feel convinced of a higher power watching out for us.

    The Bible was written by scribes, just like history was written by scribes. You don't doubt Cyrus ruled Persia, Alexander spread Hellinism or Columbus sialed to America do you? Those events were recorded by scribes . No one alive experienced them. Now one might argue those were physical and social events not spiritual, but it seems less likely people would impose restrcitions or rules on themselves as they did then or would write stories just like that. Again Faith is called in to play though.

    For everyone questioning the Old Testament's rules about slavery genocide etc. Well do you believe i nevolution? Evolution would say stopping Hitler is dead wrong. That blacks, Asians, Aboriginies and even caertain whites right off the bat don't deserve to exist because they are below whitesw in society and we should kill all mentally handicapped and many physically handicapped. people love the ideas of Darwin saying it's natural to want to have sex and you should, it's natural to do what will get you ahead even if it requires back stabbing, killing babies is good because it limits population. Humanitarians largely base their lifestyles on marx and darwin. Marx said religon is stupid lets kill the religious is that any better than the crusades?

    Really nothing is perfect and religon will let you down. I went on a retreat a fewweeks ago and some peopel started crying, claiming it was a gift of the Holy Spirit I don't want to judge them and i take them on their integrity. But it was so hypocritical some of the bitchiest just despisable girls. In fact many times w/ religon i find the very involved "very religous" are people who you'd expect the least and the most religously unattached are of the nicest people you could meet. It's an unfortunate circumstance and it turns people off, but maybe God calls most for the ones who need it most.
     
  2. Dilligaf Brown Belt

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    nope, not really. i've studied some of that in college but it doesn't really matter.

    hound, i've already stated my argument in regards to this. i never intended to philosophy and i hope i don't appear to be doing so. i'm speakin pretty straight up but let me know whatcha think...
     
  3. Dilligaf Brown Belt

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    People used to drag on Jesus for hangin out with sinners. he simply stated that a doctor doesn't come to heal the healthy. he comes to heal the sick.

    look at the story of the apostle paul, or moses, or peter.....they were all sinners. everyone is a sinner. the Bible will verify that.
     
  4. Tenacious T Orange Belt

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    Hound philosophers such as Voltaire and Newtown and many others examined the Bible. Newtown aid there must be a God in one of the most unrefutable documents ever he basically says the symetry and order and simple complexity of everything must, absolutely must, mean there is a God. It very interesting actually and for a guy who had an intellect so high it's completely understandable. (Newton's I.Q. is so much greater than einsteins that comparing the two would be like comparing a very much less than average person to some one more around Einstein's actual I.Q.)

    Voltaire himself loved religon. He applauded the early church, Jesus and many other things religous. However he brutally attacked the Church for it's corruption (It's actually pretty x rated and can be viewed by ultra-offensive) But he wasn't quite about throwing the baby out w/ the bathwater. He understood today's Gospel about the weds and the wheat very well apparently.(Jesus said not to weed the fields for it would kill the wheat, like wise don't kil all apparent sinners because u'd probably kill saints as well.) Voltaire explained a Pope's brother actually owned a fishing industry and he could make lots of money off the affluent whiel the peasants starve. That sort of non sense comes from man not God and it's men like Voltaire who really make the Church stronger; not weaker.
     
  5. Hurtch Blue Belt

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    I go to church every Sunday. I went tonight. I'll go next week.

    Do I agree with everything the Roman Catholic church preaches? Certainly not. I feel that it is out of date and not willing to accept the changes society has seen.

    This having been said, I am still a supporter of my religion. Regardless of your religion or if you believe or not, The Bible is still a good read. It teaches everybody how to live there life. It teaches compassion, humanity, happiness, forgiveness, the very things that make up our society today.

    You don't have to like what the church is. You don't have to agree with everything the church says. All's you have to do is take The Bible for what it is, a guide to helping you become a better person.
     
  6. Red Dragon Blue Belt

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    Tenacious is like what I say about how the TRULY brilliant know there is a God. Its the ones who only THINK they're smart that question it. What Jesus did with spending time with the sinners I think was cause those people were reachable. Some people really juat need help to get back on track. Other though revel in their filth and love what they do and are. Eventually those are given to a retrobate mind and are beyond help. You need to recognize your sin to be helped. Good posts guys. I am impressed this hasn't turned into name calling.
     
  7. Dilligaf Brown Belt

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    i agree red,

    this is a good post. even if everyone was against what i'm saying....we're all stating our points intelligently. at least we don't have some quack doggnutz fool poppin stupid shit around
     
  8. deadbuddha Blue Belt

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    I kind of subscribe to the believe that as long as i lead a fair and just life, it doesnt really matter whether or not there is a god. Cause if there is then i would have to believe that he is just and in being just how can he keep me from entering after he has seen the life i lead. Of course this is tricky, and it is with yourself who you must be at peace with so that you can know that you have lead that kind of life.
    consider this a gift if it helps you in any way.
     
  9. Matt in Oz Blue Belt

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    Hi guys,
    Sorry I missed a lot of the debate, I was at lunch.
    Just read through a lot of the posts, and most of my follow up arguments have already been posted.
    Bit of a summary of my own beliefs, though.
    I believe in a god that can encompass every belief or religion and it's encouraging that we can talk about this without name calling or empty rhetoric.:)
     
  10. Gaijin Blue Belt

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    Organized religion is a placebo in my opinion. Intelligent people find purposes for themselves and do good things too, all without religion, but to some degree their subconcious aproach to life is similar to the dedication and reverence of the faithful. People who say " I am my own god" are often nailed against and said to be arrogant and criminally perverse, but a lot of the time what they are really doing is seeing an image of an ideal "ME" someone with a virtue tempered by their own uniqueness. So they strike to be like that person. Sorta like "what would jesus do" but instead "what would the ideal me that i want to be do"
     
  11. Matt in Oz Blue Belt

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    Saint Francis de Sales said:
    "Do not wish to be anything but what you are, and try to be that
    perfectly"
     
  12. gumby1 Blue Belt

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    i dont know if theres a "god", but i sure dotn want anything to do with the organised religion, They only believe in the church and protect it.
     
  13. computer fogie Gold Belt

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    I was raised around mostly Christians, so I'll use Christianity as an example, but I suspect a lot of this applies to other ancient religions as well.

    An exceptionally clear-thinking, fair-minded man saw the world of shit around him (destructive societal and personal values), and tried to help. His quotes in the Bible, taken by themselves, are like a general guide to being a good person. The Bible also contains the opinions of many other contributors besides Christ, apparently without his OK. Some of these other guys are cool, some are nuts. This has caused problems, too many for me to start on.

    I don't see anything about the essence of Christianity (Christ's words) that is the exclusive domain of religion. It's not secret knowledge, it's not difficult to understand. It's just basic moral decency, accessable to anyone with good character. A person raised by good people among other good people could arrive at the same values Christ taught, even if they had never heard of him. A child who is not exposed to organized religion is not damned from birth by their bad luck. It is nice to have religious writings available, but it can't be absolutely necessary.

    All the major religions are different. They all teach their own particular view of the world, usually to the exclusion of all others. Most religious people just believe whatever religion their parents taught to them as children. Did they do a careful broad-minded study of the worlds religions as a child, and then pick the one that best represented their moral values? Do they think that they just happened to be born into the one true religion in the world? Many of them act like it, and they don't have a leg to stand on, philosophically. Mine is the best, because it's mine! I don't need to know about yours, yours is wrong! Why is it wrong? Because it's not like mine!
     
  14. Come on you guys, God is based on faith and faith is a chosin personal preferance so what the fuck!
    Here is one for you, I only believe in a christian god, not a catholic god or a lutheran god or a protostent god or a baptist god, holy shit who many gods are there and which one should I choose!:rolleyes:
     
  15. computer fogie Gold Belt

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    Oh, yeah, God, I didn't answer the question. I don't know if what I believe is the same as "God", but I believe there is a natural order imposed on us that we follow. I'd call it nature. I don't picture a supreme being, but the effect is about the same. Allah, Buddha, God, whatever.
     
  16. Hey CB hurry up and get an avatar!
     
  17. Don2000g Guest

    God rules!
     
  18. Hound Brown Belt

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    Tenatious T, Fuktard and anybody else: I think you guys misunderstood what I was getting at. I am in no way interested in proving/ validating God in pointing you guys towards what academics have found out about God/early Christinaity.

    The main thing I was hoping SOME of you would check out and come to realise is:

    A- The Bible is no longer, and this has been so for a while, an accurate basis for historical/cultural analysis for the ancient world in general and the Isrealites in particular. At least as far as the pre-roman period is concerned. It is filled with projections of preoccupations of a latter day onto a fictionalised reconstruction of ancient Hebrew History. In short it can't even get the facts straight. I will not go into a lengthy boring enumeration of the errors contained therein. You cancheck this out for yourselves.

    B- As interesting as later intellectual's take on the Bible is, I find their conclusions very shallow in regards to what the Bible is supposedly tells us. The fact that they have NO CLUE about how, why, when, etc.. it was written makes their ideas at best uninformed.

    I'm gonna cut this short by saying that the Bible was written by real people dealing with real issues. This context has definitely crept into the Bible`s text and colored some of it`s teachings. I or any other guy with PHDs can't tell you if God exists or what not. But they can give you very solid info on the context in which His teachings were fromulated and put down.

    That`s all.
     
  19. shidokanartist De-Comp-Poser

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    Everything that exists on this planet can be used for good or evil. You can use water to sustain your life or you can kill someone with it. You can use a computer to promote kiddy porn or you can use it to have intelligent debate with people all over the world. God does not influence the goings on on this planet. Only man does that. He does nothing to influence good or bad. That is why we have " free will ". God is a spiritual being, and we are physical. It seems to me that we are always trying to assimilate God into our physical contexts. Our only Physical link to God has been Jesus Christ. Belief in him is not supposed to be easy the gap between our existence and Gods is at once vast and miniscule. This is the beauty of the entire relationship. It seems that you don't have to look very far to prove his existence to yourself. You just have to move beyond the physical limitations of our shallow perceptions.
     
  20. Dilligaf Brown Belt

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    Hound:

    well maybe i'm just not understanding what you're saying then. from what i get it sounds like you're questioning belief in something that is outdated. something written by man, man's not perfect, therefore it's full of errors.

    intellectuals can't fully decifer the details of what the Bible really means.
    am i close???

    well, if so, then i remember ALREADY addressing this stuff. i've done plenty of historical & archeological courses in reference to the Bible. the gaps or flaws that you speak of are very minor and insignificant. they don't add or take away the main points of what the Bible's pupose in relation to mankind is.

    we can spend 1000's of posts arguing historical and archeological accuracy but i don't think either one of us are in the mood.

    the Bible's pretty simple but we can all choose to make it (and it's orgins) as complicated as we want.

    i hope i addressed what you were gettin at. if not then try re-wording it. i am, afterall, a mere fuktard.
     

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