Do you beleive in god?

Don't let a bunch of clowns looking to start trouble ruin a good discussion. Another clear biblical point is that those who follow and preach will be hated. Hated because others hate to have things they don't like pointed out to them. They would rather lie to themselves and pretend that they know everything and can make up right and wrong for themselves. Notice I haven't used any stupid crap or called anyone names so see if you can follow the trend.
 
basically i think that people see the trees, they see water, fire, and feel the wind, and they want to understand why they see and feel what they are. they need an explanation for it. i dont have one problem with that. i dont have one single problem with anything that has to do with god and religion until it gets pushed on me. it has only happened once or twice in my adult life. i dont need a reason for anything. there are many things i dont understand, i dont understand how there is child molesters, i dont know why the grass is green, and i dont know why the earth is 75% water. i dont need to know why, i dont need to make up things to understand why and i can sleep just fine not knowing why things are the way they are. as long as i feel i am a good person and i do more good then bad, i can sleep at nite. it all depends on the person, if you people need to believe that god made them and that if they are good they will goto heaven, then i will never look at them with any hate or bad feelings. i have many friends that know the way i feel and we can just agree to disagree, and live our lives in this world. peace to everyone.
 
If anyone ever gets the chance, you should do read up on the Gospel of Thomas. Very interesting stuff. Stuff, that if the Catholic religion ever let it out, would destroy the Christian organization. Look it up sometime. Interesting read.
 
One other thing.

How would the die-hard Christians of this forum explain the existance of the dinosaurs? I've had this discussion online with a couple other zealotish Christians, and they all seem to think it's a huge government conspiracy or something. I'm interested to see what you guys think about it.
 
Squezze: if you wanna have a serious discussion about it PM me. This is one of the areas that I have a great interest in and read alot about. So if you really wanna discuss and not just look to make fun of people then PM me man.
And like it has been said, Church organization and other works of men are subject to error and mistake but that doesn't devalidify any of the teachings or values. So I can see some people having issues with the structure of the church and those types of things but not with the teachings.
 
It is a battle trying to convince people of anything, especially if we don't reduce our argument to the bare essentials. We might have worthy ideas to share with people who need to hear them, but if the ideas are too bundled up in a particular religion, the message can get lost. Decent people like the posters here can usually find common ground in their core values. Maybe those values came from religion, or self-growth, or a more non-analytical approach, it doesn't matter to me.
 
Red Dragon I don't like people getting on their soap boxes and pontificating how shallow my life is since i don't accept the christian faith.

"Its the ones who only THINK they're smart that question it"

don't preach to me, that was not the purpose of this thread, the point of the thread was to give your opnion on the existence of God not argue theology, I would seriously suggest you think about why you seem to have been provoked as to tell me and others, we're wrong in our beliefs and only THINK we are smart, as a result.

I'm all for live and let live so i'll refrain from pointing out what i feel are fallacies and untruths in your beliefs.

In fact i have no problem with what you believe but when you start judging my beliefs, i feel tempted to start judging yours...

"judge not lest he be judged"
 
Originally posted by computer boy
How can Christianity be credible if the Bible sells such vastly different moral standards? Anyway, I'm not really in my element talking about religion at all. I have a problem with the logic. Any religion that says "Following our teachings is the only way to achieve the highest moral standard" can't be correct. There must be hundreds of millions of Chinese, for example, who will never hear about Christianity. You seem to be saying that they cannot possibly "enter the kingdom of heaven". If this kingdom you speak of is a private club for Christians only, then that would make sense. If the "kingdom" is a euphemism for what happens to a good and moral person at death, then it's not for Christians only.
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This voices my problems with the Christian Bible. The values in the old and new testament are in direct contradiction to each other. If anyone wants examples of this I'll post them, but I don't wish to attack peoples religious beliefs.

I have a problem in that the King James version of the Bible (our oldest version of the New Testament) is only written about 400 years ago. We have no original documents to compare it to. In it there are more than 3000 changes in 8 different hands. It came towards the end of the dark ages where Christianity was spread by the sword accompanied by fear and prejudice.
Tomas de Torquemada for instance had people tortured and burned for not being Christian. Would he have added his own spin on any of the bibles stories? I certainly wouldn't trust any dark ages preists to maintain the integrity of the bible.
The lineage of Joseph from King David for instance is entirely different in Mark and Luke.

Originally posted by computer boy

I would like to see Christianity, for instance, stripped of everything but the actual teachings of Christ. That way, it could be taught as a fascinating story of a very smart, brave, and morally advanced man. He tried to change the moral cesspool he lived in by sharing his ideas with as many people as he could. Some agreed with him, some did not, and those in power killed him for his efforts. He died because he had a better idea, and cared enough to try. He emphasized that to be a good person, you must first learn these ideals, then you will be ready to die right. Again, pardon the oversimplification, but isn't that the gist of it? His story is unusual for the sacrifices he made for the truth (at least), but the ideals he died for are not the exclusive property of Christians.
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Me too, it always seems to me that Christ would have had as much love for the followers of other religions as he does for Christians.

I think the idea that someone who follows a religion other than Christianity is doomed to the pit is truly appalling.
 
Originally posted by herecomestrouble
basically i think that people see the trees, they see water, fire, and feel the wind, and they want to understand why they see and feel what they are. they need an explanation for it. i dont have one problem with that. i dont have one single problem with anything that has to do with god and religion until it gets pushed on me. it has only happened once or twice in my adult life. i dont need a reason for anything. there are many things i dont understand, i dont understand how there is child molesters, i dont know why the grass is green, and i dont know why the earth is 75% water. i dont need to know why, i dont need to make up things to understand why and i can sleep just fine not knowing why things are the way they are. as long as i feel i am a good person and i do more good then bad, i can sleep at nite. it all depends on the person, if you people need to believe that god made them and that if they are good they will goto heaven, then i will never look at them with any hate or bad feelings. i have many friends that know the way i feel and we can just agree to disagree, and live our lives in this world. peace to everyone.
Click to expand...

I think this exactly why peopl created religions and superstitions and any other belief in the supernatural.
I am 30 years old and I still wake up amazed by what I see in the world every day. I try to look through a childs eyes at the things I see in nature.
I believe in God, but I believe in the God that created the big bang and a God that created creatures that adapt and change (evolution).

I think I'm echoing something computer boy said earlier.
I believe in God, but I spell it N-A-T-U-R-E
 
For those who think that Jesus would accept people of other religions think about the quote when he says he is the way and he is the path no one gets to the father except through him. You are right in the sense that he wouldn't argue with them over the internet but he made it clear what was what about that issue. I have seen all these "bible contractions" and as I said they seem to be not opposite claims but variations that dont take anything away. If I say "I am going to the store" and "I am going out" aren't both true?
 
Originally posted by Red Dragon
For those who think that Jesus would accept people of other religions think about the quote when he says he is the way and he is the path no one gets to the father except through him. You are right in the sense that he wouldn't argue with them over the internet but he made it clear what was what about that issue. I have seen all these "bible contractions" and as I said they seem to be not opposite claims but variations that dont take anything away. If I say "I am going to the store" and "I am going out" aren't both true?
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How about "Turn the other cheek"
and "An eye for an eye"
As one of the more obvious ones.

As there was no Christianity when he was alive I'd say he wasn't talking in the slightest about any religion that has come from the Bible.
He was talking about "loving thy neighbours"
and "Turning the other cheek"
and "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone"

These three things you I have mentioned are hardly ever applicable to Christians of any order. Particularly the last one. I've been told by many Christians that I'll burn in hell. No offence, but how the fuck would they know.

I refuse to believe that any God has a chosen people. If you believe that's not true that's is your belief not mine. Accept my beliefs and I'll accept yours, if you don't look to "Love thy Neighbour" in the bible and then see if you can find a list of exceptions. You'll find that there isn't one.
 
Red Dragon it matters not what Jesus says, I'm not condemmed because its not true, to me.

I'll show you something i posted earlier and see if you can tell who fits this category.

I respect some aspects of religions but i have a healthy mistrust of other parts. When people start interpreting aspects of religions in a certain way it seems to lead to foam flecked zealots on a crusade to "put everyone to the sword" that don't see things their way. I don't like that sir, i don't like that at all.
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why don't i like it?

I look and i only see people, regardless of colour, creed, religion or anything else. You seem to divide the world into misguided damned souls and good christians.

If that division of people wasn't based on religion you would be a bigot.
 
Originally posted by RAZOR
What church do you go to?

I have a good majority of friends who are christian and love it. I would love to trade cynicism for the serenity in absolute faith, the problem is a belief in nothing (faith) and how that translates into transcendence. In other words, heaven I believe (much as the Zen Master stated) is within the person. Nirvana is a self actualization.
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i go to saddleback valley community church. i guess you could look at faith as nothing.........physical/tangible. if i were you then i would talk to God on your own time. be straight up and let him know how ya feel. if you sincerely want to know what it's like to truely experience faith then you'll get it. don't worry about what religions and people say for right now.

sounds like you might be into wisdom too. you should read ecclesiates. it's not all preachy like the rest of the Bible. it's a pretty good start bro.
 
Originally posted by RAZOR
What church do you go to?

I have a good majority of friends who are christian and love it. I would love to trade cynicism for the serenity in absolute faith, the problem is a belief in nothing (faith) and how that translates into transcendence. In other words, heaven I believe (much as the Zen Master stated) is within the person. Nirvana is a self actualization.
Click to expand...

i go to saddleback valley community church. i guess you could look at faith as nothing.........physical/tangible. if i were you then i would talk to God on your own time. be straight up and let him know how ya feel. if you sincerely want to know what it's like to truely experience faith then you'll get it. don't worry about what religions and people say for right now.

sounds like you might be into wisdom too. you should read ecclesiates. it's not all preachy like the rest of the Bible. it's a pretty good start bro.
 
Wow, I missed a lot it seems.

As far as PMing you Red Dragon, this is a forum, and forums are for expressing ones opinions, so if you don't wanna post on the forum your opinion on the Gospel of Thomas or the dinosaurs, then that's cool. I'm not out to make fun of anyone or anything.

But, honestly, you can't believe that someone only "THINKS" their smart if they don't believe in Christianity. Everyone has his or her own beliefs, and not believing in Christianity has nothing to do with intelligence.

There's one thing that really bothers me about Christians in general, and that's the preaching thing. Now, most people of the Christian faith don't preach or force their views on other people, but there are percentage who do, and who condem anyone who dosen't share their beliefs. Which shows the hypocracy of it all, considering one of the Bible's teachings states "Judge not lest ye be judged". I'm pretty sure Jesus was referring to people in general, not just his followers.

Also, coming in this thread, and repeatedly saying that you don't want this to degrade into name calling, and then saying that people who arn't Christian only "think" their smart, is probably some of the funniest shit I've ever heard, not to mention very hypocritical.

I live my life in a very open minded way, and if the Christian way is as closed minded as it appears, then I'll just keep going my own way. Nuff said.
 
I'm agnostic. There's a difference between an atheist and an agnostic, an atheist believes that there's no god, and an agnostic believes that it is impossible to determine whether god exists or not, hence being neither an atheist nor a deity believer.

Here's where the term came from..

"The term 'agnosticism' was coined by Professor T.H. Huxley at a meeting of the Metaphysical Society in 1876. He defined an agnostic as someone who disclaimed both ("strong") atheism and theism, and who believed that the question of whether a higher power existed was unsolved and insoluble. Another way of putting it is that an agnostic is someone who believes that we do not and cannot know for sure whether God exists."

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/h_j_blackham/agnostic.html
 
If I beleive in there being a god, but not in religion, does that classify me as anything? I want to be a something... heh.
 
well we've certainly been keeping active since the ol captain left.

squeeze, computer, matt & the rest: i appreciate your points. even though they are points that have always been brought up.....they seem to always back a christian into a corner.

you guys have found loopholes. there's plenty of them and, as i stated in the 1st page of this thread, you can easily find them.

i'm not gonna get in this type of debate. i've done it 1,000's of times and in the end, both parties walk away feeling frustrated & dissatisfied. so here's where i'm coming from:

i won't answer the points you guys have brought up. some of them i can answer but it will just go in pointless circles. others i honestly CAN'T answer- i don't know the dinosaur answer, squeeze & i'm not afraid to admit it. it's very hard to LITERALLY describe why i have such faith in something that DOES seem so flawed on the surface.
all i can think of are cells. cells are life forms. it is IMPOSSIBLE for a cell to grasp the concept that they are ACTUALLY living to serve a purpose. even if they were told, they don't have the neurotic ability to comprehend what they really are. they aren't stupid. they just don't have the ability. they don't even have physical ears to hear!

now i'm not saying that nonbelievers are stupid so don't even jump to that conclusion. what i'm saying is that i don't think we as humans contain the capability to fully comprehend this mystery.

i don't think we're meant to at this point. why? because God gave us enough info to 1) know how to live life right and 2) to allow us to get to know him through faith. something happens to you inside when real faith comes alive. something that i can't describe. you'd have to experience it to know it.

in the end.......i look back and can easily conclude that it is MUCH better for me to know God as i do- through faith. if i were to sit down with him and ask him every question about every loophole then he just may give me EVERY answer. it may just come all come together.
but then what?? then would i follow him because it makes logic sense? i don't see how spiritual growth can occur through logic reasoning.
 
My statement about those who "only think they are smart" was not to say certain people are dumb. It was to say that it seems like every internet atheist doubles as an expert philosopher and evolutionist. They quote all these men who they deem to be great thinkers. Yet when someone quotes divinely inspired scripture, it doesn't hold the same weight?! So my point was that some of the highest scholars have come to a theist conclusion based on their intelligence. But as the Captain said, the real issue is faith. No one looking for some unrealistic physical evidence is ever going to change their mind anyway.
 
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