S
SEXY BEAST
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Basically you belive in god because you want to, not because there ia a god!
Do you beleive in god?
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Tenacious T
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Hound I'm glad u read all my posts I was begining t othink people just scrolled past because they're too long and they're so horrible grammatically.
What I mean by Christianity is the real Judaism is simple. Jesus came to take Judaism a step further, Just as the Ten COmmandement s had. But he's a lot more than that; Jesus is salvation, the Prince of Peace, The original High Priest who visits w/ i believe Abraham (I think he's called Malesadec, that speeling is probably wrong.) He was a continuation of the religon. When Jews decided not to follow they just became Hebrews. They're still called Jews because the rest of the world (other than Christians) and they themselves called them Jews. Christianity didn't catch on until the 3rd century and by then they had really tried to seperate from the people who had been persecuting them. Also a lot of people still held on to the idea that only a Hebrew and a person who lives liek a Hebrew is a Jew everyone else is a Gentile. Jesus however said that was untrue. Long post Iknow it gets longer.
True Confucious may not be a religous figure but I understood him to be. My point regarding the Eastern religons is that they deal greatly w/ balance, just good and Evil. True they're complex; explaining Hinduism is almost impossible. Even Zoraster w/ the classic Good v. Evil principle can be hard to understand. But they don't deal w/ Forgiveness and put little meaning to being otehr than to just exist. Hamurabi's code and other such law were severe and unforgiving. Jesus teaches that Hitler, Stalin and The Unibomber could all go to heaven just for believing in him. He does say stuff about belief alone not being good enough or something, but you never know who goes to hell and who doesn't. That sort of teaching was just so revolutionary.
The Philosophers did try to find the perfect society. Utopia was one of the first books of Philosophy in Europe to be widely studied. Our system of government is an idea from the minds of John Locke. Others Like Rosseau contributed, but these men just couldn't top Jesus. Voltaire admits Christ's greatness although he never wanted to admit to his divinity. I meant only Voltaire scrutinized the Church and Bible. But the others who tried so hard to create perfect societies in their minds but failed where Jesus left teh Apostles w/ the only known case of working Socialism.
That doesn't mean tehy haven't done anything; newtown is the second most influential man ever. Ask any scholar. Descartes, Voltaire, Locke, Rosseau all of them the last 500 years were influenced by some really intelligent guys. Honestly they make Einstein seem unintelligent. I challenge you to prove they're not but I also CHallenge you to prove Jesus isn't. W/o Jesus tehy would have never been so influential, nor would have Allah. It Just doesn't seem right that a guy so significant, predicted so thoroughly and just so revolutionary could do all that. Tell me for what reason would a man like that go to the Cross?
Iread your site, it discard it though. I'm sure it could all be dispelled. There's info in Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek andPersian history about all of that stuff. Why shouldn't I believe THAT'S fabricated?
What I mean by Christianity is the real Judaism is simple. Jesus came to take Judaism a step further, Just as the Ten COmmandement s had. But he's a lot more than that; Jesus is salvation, the Prince of Peace, The original High Priest who visits w/ i believe Abraham (I think he's called Malesadec, that speeling is probably wrong.) He was a continuation of the religon. When Jews decided not to follow they just became Hebrews. They're still called Jews because the rest of the world (other than Christians) and they themselves called them Jews. Christianity didn't catch on until the 3rd century and by then they had really tried to seperate from the people who had been persecuting them. Also a lot of people still held on to the idea that only a Hebrew and a person who lives liek a Hebrew is a Jew everyone else is a Gentile. Jesus however said that was untrue. Long post Iknow it gets longer.
True Confucious may not be a religous figure but I understood him to be. My point regarding the Eastern religons is that they deal greatly w/ balance, just good and Evil. True they're complex; explaining Hinduism is almost impossible. Even Zoraster w/ the classic Good v. Evil principle can be hard to understand. But they don't deal w/ Forgiveness and put little meaning to being otehr than to just exist. Hamurabi's code and other such law were severe and unforgiving. Jesus teaches that Hitler, Stalin and The Unibomber could all go to heaven just for believing in him. He does say stuff about belief alone not being good enough or something, but you never know who goes to hell and who doesn't. That sort of teaching was just so revolutionary.
The Philosophers did try to find the perfect society. Utopia was one of the first books of Philosophy in Europe to be widely studied. Our system of government is an idea from the minds of John Locke. Others Like Rosseau contributed, but these men just couldn't top Jesus. Voltaire admits Christ's greatness although he never wanted to admit to his divinity. I meant only Voltaire scrutinized the Church and Bible. But the others who tried so hard to create perfect societies in their minds but failed where Jesus left teh Apostles w/ the only known case of working Socialism.
That doesn't mean tehy haven't done anything; newtown is the second most influential man ever. Ask any scholar. Descartes, Voltaire, Locke, Rosseau all of them the last 500 years were influenced by some really intelligent guys. Honestly they make Einstein seem unintelligent. I challenge you to prove they're not but I also CHallenge you to prove Jesus isn't. W/o Jesus tehy would have never been so influential, nor would have Allah. It Just doesn't seem right that a guy so significant, predicted so thoroughly and just so revolutionary could do all that. Tell me for what reason would a man like that go to the Cross?
Iread your site, it discard it though. I'm sure it could all be dispelled. There's info in Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek andPersian history about all of that stuff. Why shouldn't I believe THAT'S fabricated?
Hound
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I am sorry but again I see opinions formulated as absolutes and blanket statements. I understand that you have no room here to cite authors and list pedantic facts/counter facts. BUT you do have room
A-To somehow mention that it is your opinion that...Instead of taking the Proff giving his lecture tone.
B-If you have no notions of allowing your certainties to be questioned/dispelled/revised then make that clear so we know on what level we are discussing.
I will give you an example of your absolutes:" Christianity didn't catch on until the 3rd century and by then they had really tried to seperate from the people who had been persecuting them."
Really? Didn't Christianity finally "triumph" after being formally adopted by those who persecuted it? Unless you mean distancing itself from judaism? Definitely are alternative interpretations than your own.
How you can say with absolute certainty that Eastern religions give little meaning to life other than existing is, well, amusing. Nuance my friend, nuance. The attainement of Nirvana/escape from reincarnation for you is pointless? The repercussions of actions on your present/future life is an indicator of a lack of importance accorded to existence in these religions? Well and fine that it is YOUR TAKE but don't present it as being a widely held truth.
Yes yes Locke and Hobbes and Le Contrat Social all pale in YOUR eyes to what Jesus said or did. Again YOUR take on it and not an intrinsic truth. You again drop these names and make it seem to the unwary that this is an evident fact. Come now. Christianity is the "True Working Socialism".YOUR assessment. Some would say the first bands of hunter gatherers were the the first "sociliasts" featuring no visible social classes and an equal division of labor as poetic and puerile I MYSELF find this kind of anachronistic projection on the past to be.
Your last paragraph telling me to "Ask any scholar" is exactly the kind of generalisations I find you partake too much in. We really are getting into very personal views pf yours THAT I GUARANTEE are not shared ANY scholar I could bother on the subject. Outside of Billy Graham University that is.
Do you see where I am getting at. You name drop to seem impregnably informed and follow this with a personal assessment put in the form of an absolute statement of truth. Get off your high horse. That is majorly weak debating strategy.
Som of us av also bin to da Big Skool you no!
A-To somehow mention that it is your opinion that...Instead of taking the Proff giving his lecture tone.
B-If you have no notions of allowing your certainties to be questioned/dispelled/revised then make that clear so we know on what level we are discussing.
I will give you an example of your absolutes:" Christianity didn't catch on until the 3rd century and by then they had really tried to seperate from the people who had been persecuting them."
Really? Didn't Christianity finally "triumph" after being formally adopted by those who persecuted it? Unless you mean distancing itself from judaism? Definitely are alternative interpretations than your own.
How you can say with absolute certainty that Eastern religions give little meaning to life other than existing is, well, amusing. Nuance my friend, nuance. The attainement of Nirvana/escape from reincarnation for you is pointless? The repercussions of actions on your present/future life is an indicator of a lack of importance accorded to existence in these religions? Well and fine that it is YOUR TAKE but don't present it as being a widely held truth.
Yes yes Locke and Hobbes and Le Contrat Social all pale in YOUR eyes to what Jesus said or did. Again YOUR take on it and not an intrinsic truth. You again drop these names and make it seem to the unwary that this is an evident fact. Come now. Christianity is the "True Working Socialism".YOUR assessment. Some would say the first bands of hunter gatherers were the the first "sociliasts" featuring no visible social classes and an equal division of labor as poetic and puerile I MYSELF find this kind of anachronistic projection on the past to be.
Your last paragraph telling me to "Ask any scholar" is exactly the kind of generalisations I find you partake too much in. We really are getting into very personal views pf yours THAT I GUARANTEE are not shared ANY scholar I could bother on the subject. Outside of Billy Graham University that is.
Do you see where I am getting at. You name drop to seem impregnably informed and follow this with a personal assessment put in the form of an absolute statement of truth. Get off your high horse. That is majorly weak debating strategy.
Som of us av also bin to da Big Skool you no!
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i didn't know this thread was titled "prove to non-believers that there is a God".
last time i checked the thread asked if believed in God and why. i think i've thoroughly explained so. if it's not good enough in other people's eyes then too bad. i'm just here to tell you where i'm coming from.
so let's start down the line:
blown- 1st off dude, calm the fuck down. 2nd of all, i'm proving not anything. i don't need to. if you want details then read (and respond to) my earlier posts.
hound- i was actually responding to tenecious' 1st sentence only. i figured i'd let him explain the 2nd one. and here we go again with the flaws in the Bible! i don't think i declaimed it as you said. i think i declaimed it as I said. i put my faith in God and his word WELL before anything man can say- and yes, i did read your article and i've read dozens similar and even more accurate.
it may sound stupid and illogical......cool.
once again i'm gonna keep it simple: when i live my life according to what God says, the result has ALWAYS been happiness, hope, comfort, love, trust, and sincerity! when hardships come along then He helps me handle them constructivly and therefore i grow stronger in the long run.
whenever i try to direct my life towards the will of man (including myself) the result is ALWAYS anger, frustration, unsatisfying, depression, pointless envy, jealousy, etc. the only satisfication i get is temporary.
this is why i do what God commands regardless of it making sense. therefore i enjoy my life better.
last time i checked the thread asked if believed in God and why. i think i've thoroughly explained so. if it's not good enough in other people's eyes then too bad. i'm just here to tell you where i'm coming from.
so let's start down the line:
blown- 1st off dude, calm the fuck down. 2nd of all, i'm proving not anything. i don't need to. if you want details then read (and respond to) my earlier posts.
hound- i was actually responding to tenecious' 1st sentence only. i figured i'd let him explain the 2nd one. and here we go again with the flaws in the Bible! i don't think i declaimed it as you said. i think i declaimed it as I said. i put my faith in God and his word WELL before anything man can say- and yes, i did read your article and i've read dozens similar and even more accurate.
it may sound stupid and illogical......cool.
once again i'm gonna keep it simple: when i live my life according to what God says, the result has ALWAYS been happiness, hope, comfort, love, trust, and sincerity! when hardships come along then He helps me handle them constructivly and therefore i grow stronger in the long run.
whenever i try to direct my life towards the will of man (including myself) the result is ALWAYS anger, frustration, unsatisfying, depression, pointless envy, jealousy, etc. the only satisfication i get is temporary.
this is why i do what God commands regardless of it making sense. therefore i enjoy my life better.
Matt in Oz
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I've said before that I didn't want to get into attacking the Bible and certainly not the people who believe in it. Personally, I suppose I just want people to understand my own beliefs and reasons for them. Just the inaccuracies we know about are huge and wide ranging.
My job is boring, so if you'd like me to post as many flaws and contradictions as I can find in the next 8 hours or so, then I'll do it. I'm afraid it will come off as a personal attack, though.
I wrote this one before I assume you've chosen to discard it is minor or half baked. To me, it is fundamental.
"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"
"Turn the other cheek"
I do agree, though, that Jesus, whether you believe he is the son of God or not, has a truly amazing philosophy for life.
Hound
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Fuktard I am really honestly happy for you and find no fault in your choices. It is none of my business really.
Debating life philosophies while sticking to things that are beyond man's comprehension is fine. No one has an absolute handle on these things and cannot have the final word.
It is when you come down to the world of factuality and use it to support an argument that it is only fair that YOUR take on these concrete things be subject to review. Saying that the Bible has not major inconsistancies without stressing that this is your own take on the subject is bad form. You and me are not the final word on this so let`s not present it a such.
Debating life philosophies while sticking to things that are beyond man's comprehension is fine. No one has an absolute handle on these things and cannot have the final word.
It is when you come down to the world of factuality and use it to support an argument that it is only fair that YOUR take on these concrete things be subject to review. Saying that the Bible has not major inconsistancies without stressing that this is your own take on the subject is bad form. You and me are not the final word on this so let`s not present it a such.
T
Tiki
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Interesting. I never knew that. I'm not doubting wht you say, but would it be possible for you to tell me where in the Bible it speaks of the dead as only asleep for now? I was raised as a Roman Catholic, and I was neevr told of this, so I want to check up on it.
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I beleive the capt is correct.
I beleive that Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi,the Dalai Lama etc... are all what the historical Buddha would refer to as "enlightend beings"
They teach the same basic principals just making them more relative to the time, place and people.
I dont think it matters which religion you follow as long as you follow it well. I think people who argue about which religion is "the best" are over emphasizing the importance of the mode of transport, rather than focusing on the destination!
I see it like this.....Say we all want to get to London. We are all different people in different places with different circumstances. The same route which will take me there, will not take most of you. The journey is a little different for everyone. But its the destination that counts! ...PEACE...WE ARE ALL ONE
I beleive that Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi,the Dalai Lama etc... are all what the historical Buddha would refer to as "enlightend beings"
They teach the same basic principals just making them more relative to the time, place and people.
I dont think it matters which religion you follow as long as you follow it well. I think people who argue about which religion is "the best" are over emphasizing the importance of the mode of transport, rather than focusing on the destination!
I see it like this.....Say we all want to get to London. We are all different people in different places with different circumstances. The same route which will take me there, will not take most of you. The journey is a little different for everyone. But its the destination that counts! ...PEACE...WE ARE ALL ONE
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i can't remember the verses by heart but i'll go back & find a few then let you know. it's funny, i've read the Bible over and over but i can't remember exact versus that well. i don't see how preists and everyone can just do it like nothin.
it's hard!
shidokanartist
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I think that reference is actually in revalations. Not sure though.
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ok, here you guys go:
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2).
"For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing . . ." (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
"For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep" (1 Corinthians 11:30).
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51).
But when are we changed? Our change takes place at the time
of judgment, rather than at the moment of death (Hebrews 9:27).
"But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus" (1 Thessalonians 4:13-14).
if you guys want more info on that then check it:
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/bk2/mystery.html
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2).
"For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing . . ." (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
"For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep" (1 Corinthians 11:30).
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51).
But when are we changed? Our change takes place at the time
of judgment, rather than at the moment of death (Hebrews 9:27).
"But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus" (1 Thessalonians 4:13-14).
if you guys want more info on that then check it:
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/bk2/mystery.html
Espo
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Your God is dead, and noone cares, if there is a hell I'll see you there. No offense but I think people who feel the need to believe that when they die they don't really die are truly pathetic. It's the humanistic need to believe in something greater not to mention the fact that humans want to believe we really live after we die. Religious people make me laugh. Humans should have evolved further than this. Oh and by the way the bible was written by man not God, how come noone understands that. Well I don't care go throw your money away and waste your time, when I have kids I 'm going to teach them to believe in themselves not "God" How come when some baseball player hits a home run he might thank god but when he strikes out he doesn't blame God for that. Come on evolve people.
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