Did Tony Fergusons stock drop in your eyes, after seeing what McGregor did to Cowboy?

[Ackmed]

Diego Ferrera beat Pettis in less than 2 rounds, Tony beat Pettis after 2 full rounds.

Diego > Tony

 

[Bologna1]

No. Tony still clowns mcgregor if they fight

 

[PitDoggMMA]

So my comparison of Tony and Nate was in a very general sense. Meaning both are long, durable guys with great cardio and bjj.

As for toughness, "chin-wise" kinda means nothing to me really. Tony gets knocked down maybe a bit more, but he's really only ever been hurt twice (Pettis and Lando) and he came back to finish both shortly thereafter. And remember, Conor did actually drop Nate 2-3 times in their second fight, so Nate will go down too. Like Tony, he's tough to finish (though I'd point out that when each was hit by a flush head kick, one survived and stopped his opponent soon after, and the other was finished by the follow up--Thomson put Nate away). So the "toughness" thing...I'd disagree that Nate is tougher in any way really.

Lee "dropping" Tony meant literally nothing, rewatch that silly knockdown. Tony was off balance with a naked kick and literally popped up the instant he hit the mat. Conor knocking him down like that would mean zero as well, as there wouldn't even be time for follow up and Tony wasn't even remotely hurt. It was as much a slip as anything. As for Pettis, he rarely sits down on his punches but when he does he obviously can crack. Wonderboy had never been KO'd until Pettis flatlined him. The punch Pettis landed on Tony was full force, on the button. And Tony was hurt, but recovered quickly and we know what happened.

I don't think it's realistic at all to think it's likely that Conor could put Tony away. He couldn't with Nate when he dropped him multiple times, and Tony recovers faster than Nate does and has the same grappling ability to buy time if needed. In addition, when Nate was getting into early exchanges with Conor he was landing but not doing damage. Tony ruins faces. So when Conor eats those jabs, elbows, etc. vs Tony it's very likely that Conor fades even faster than he would vs others.

I just don't think there's evidence that Conor has this massive, fight ending power above 145. He had to knock Alvarez down 3 times to finish. Last night Cowboy didn't want to be in there to begin with, and really quit once his nose was broken. Conor still didn't put him out cold or anything with the follow up either. Meanwhile people give Tony shit for being dropped by Pettis, but between Pettis and Conor, only Pettis has a stone cold flat KO on his record above 145 (and again, vs a top tier guy who had never been KO'd despite eating clean shots from someone like Woodley).

Am I saying it's impossible Conor could beat Tony at 155 or 170? No. Conor is skilled, he'd have a shot of course. Nothing is a sure thing. But most of the evidence suggests he'd be in big trouble in that fight.

Nice breakdown, I follow the thinking of all of it.

I personally don't think Tony would come right at Conor. Tony is a slow-starter, and awkward. There are so many people (less than Conor) who have clipped him early, and dropped him, that I believe Tony will be leery until he gets warmed up. I realize this is only my imagination, but this is how I envision it.

Conor is a coiled spring early, very dangerous, highly-alert, early. Conor and Tony are almost antipodal in styles / strengths / weaknesses.

What makes me worry about Tony, is the position Kevin Lee had him in. To me, Lee is effeminate, and a beta-male, who let Tony off the hook. If Conor was on top of Tony like that, I think he would beat the absolute shit out of him.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree until the fight happens.

 

[mkess101]

Nice breakdown, I follow the thinking of all of it.

I personally don't think Tony would come right at Conor. Tony is a slow-starter, and awkward. There are so many people (less than Conor) who have clipped him early, and dropped him, that I believe Tony will be leery until he gets warmed up. I realize this is only my imagination, but this is how I envision it.

Conor is a coiled spring early, very dangerous, highly-alert, early. Conor and Tony are almost antipodal in styles / strengths / weaknesses.

What makes me worry about Tony, is the position Kevin Lee had him in. To me, Lee is effeminate, and a beta-male, who let Tony off the hook. If Conor was on top of Tony like that, I think he would beat the absolute shit out of him.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree until the fight happens.

I mean some of this I agree with when it comes to Tony's slow starts at times and Conor being dangerous early. I think that's true.

With Lee though...he's a grappler first. He took Tony down and Tony took a silly, unnecessary chance and Lee capitalized to pass his guard. Lee is a BEAST grappler early in fights, he's never lost the first round vs anyone. He just tires and fades. That fight really has nothing to do with Tony/Conor because Conor would never look to grapple, and if he did he'd be in huge trouble. Conor wants zero part of Tony's guard, he's just levels below him on the mat.

Lee also didn't "let Tony off the hook". If you watch, he threw the kitchen sink at Tony but Tony just understands how to move and avoid damage while on his back. Lee just couldn't land clean gnp despite having mount. Conor would never even get to mount, no chance. Lee used a ton of energy and got little in return for it. The issue is that Conor isn't positionally good enough with top control to keep Tony down very long to do any damage, even if he wanted to try the ground out (and I don't think he would).

 

[PitDoggMMA]

I mean some of this I agree with when it comes to Tony's slow starts at times and Conor being dangerous early. I think that's true.

Yes.

With Lee though...he's a grappler first. He took Tony down and Tony took a silly, unnecessary chance and Lee capitalized to pass his guard. Lee is a BEAST grappler early in fights, he's never lost the first round vs anyone. He just tires and fades. That fight really has nothing to do with Tony/Conor because Conor would never look to grapple, and if he did he'd be in huge trouble. Conor wants zero part of Tony's guard, he's just levels below him on the mat.

Except that Conor could drop Tony like a ton of bricks with the right shot. Lesser men than Conor have dropped Tony, significantly. Although Tony has a unique way of dealing with this (somersaulting away, and other bizarre activity) two things remain true: 1) NONE of these people, who themselves have dropped Tony, hit as hard as Conor; and 2) NONE of these people, who themselves have dropped Tony, finish as well as Conor.

If Tony gets dropped by Conor, his degree of mental fogginess will likely be greater than anything he has ever experienced before. And, if Tony is attempting to "somersault away," with the degree of dizziness he's never had in the past, Conor will ... more decisively and more accurately ... attempt to finish the job.

Lee also didn't "let Tony off the hook". If you watch, he threw the kitchen sink at Tony but Tony just understands how to move and avoid damage while on his back. Lee just couldn't land clean gnp despite having mount. Conor would never even get to mount, no chance. Lee used a ton of energy and got little in return for it. The issue is that Conor isn't positionally good enough with top control to keep Tony down very long to do any damage, even if he wanted to try the ground out (and I don't think he would).

I've watched other fighters "throw everything but the kitchen sink," but that is actually the worst thing to do. I think Conor throws better, more leveraged finishing shots when he has a man down.

Jon Jones is another example of a fighter, who really throws horrifically-leveraged shots on a downed opponent. Jones punches on a downed fighter are BRUTAL.

By contrast, some fighters start throwing lame "hammer fists," and other panicked, over-zealous, ultimately useless shots when they get someone down on the ground.

Conor is one of those guys, who (if he drops you with a bad shot) will usually throw thunderous, murderous follow-ups, with proper leverage, to FINISH the foe ... rather than a bunch of desperate, lame "hammer fists" that often allow a dazed fighter back into the fight.

The short end is, if Conor drops Tony, and gets him on queer street, I don't think Tony's chances are as good to recover as they have been in the past. Conor is as smart as Tony, is faster and more athletic, and has the same "finishing instincts."

I don't think Conor is as game as Tony, nor as long-winded, but Conor is most definitely the more dangerous, brutal fighter ... in Rounds 1 and 2 ...

Time will tell ...

 

[mkess101]

Yes.



Except that Conor could drop Tony like a ton of bricks with the right shot. Lesser men than Conor have dropped Tony, significantly. Although Tony has a unique way of dealing with this (somersaulting away, and other bizarre activity) two things remain true: 1) NONE of these people, who themselves have dropped Tony, hit as hard as Conor; and 2) NONE of these people, who themselves have dropped Tony, finish as well as Conor.

If Tony gets dropped by Conor, his degree of mental fogginess will likely be greater than anything he has ever experienced before. And, if Tony is attempting to "somersault away," with the degree of dizziness he's never had in the past, Conor will ... more decisively and more accurately ... attempt to finish the job.




I've watched other fighters "throw everything but the kitchen sink," but that is actually the worst thing to do. I think Conor throws better, more leveraged finishing shots when he has a man down.

Jon Jones is another example of a fighter, who really throws horrifically-leveraged shots on a downed opponent. They are BRUTAL.

By contrast, some fighters start throwing lame "hammer fists," and other panicked, over-zealous, ultimately useless shots when they get someone down on the ground.

Conor is one of those guys, who (if he drops you with a bad shot) will usually throw thunderous, murderous follow-ups, with proper leverage, to FINISH the foe ... rather than a bunch of desperate, lame "hammer fists" that often allow a dazed fighter back into the fight.

The short end is, if Conor drops Tony, and gets him on queer street, I don't think Tony's chances are as good to recover as they have been in the past.

Time will tell ...

I'm wondering...what has Conor shown at LW or WW that makes you think he has this thunderous power. If anything, all the evidence I've seen is that he has some pop, but nothing special at all (above 145--I do think he was a massive hitter at featherweight). He has great timing and precision, but there's basically zero evidence whatsoever that the power he showed at FW has translated to higher weight classes. Unless you believe that the Cowboy who showed up last night was there for anything other than a paycheck. Am I missing something? I don't understand the narrative that Conor has massive, fight ending power vs bigger guys than him.

Lee "throwing the kitchen sink" was him throwing HARD shots with leverage. Watch the fight. No hammerfists, he's dropping BOMBS. The issue is, Tony is just damn good at avoiding being hit by them clean.

 

[Eat crow]

Tony took Cowboy's bum soul

 

[Beebop]

And, stop trying to pretend the Cowboy that Tony faced is better than the Cowboy who Conor faced.

Cowboy has been turning up just for a check for quite some time now.

But his name is worth something it's why he's the go-to-guy when the UFC want to build somebody up. Tony got the same gimmie fight that Conor got.

Exactly he is done.

 

[PitDoggMMA]

I'm wondering...what has Conor shown at LW or WW that makes you think he has this thunderous power. If anything, all the evidence I've seen is that he has some pop, but nothing special at all (above 145--I do think he was a massive hitter at featherweight).

1) The fact he knocked down Nate Diaz, almost every time he hit him clean, for the first two rounds of their second fight. Diaz has never been dropped like that, repeatedly, by anyone else. Not even Masvidal.

2) I know you don't agree with this, but I don't think Tony Ferguson has anywhere near the chin of Nate Diaz. I think if Conor catches him clean, with his new training regimen, Ferguson will drop much more decisively than Diaz, and will be more hurt as a result of it.

He has great timing and precision, but there's basically zero evidence whatsoever that the power he showed at FW has translated to higher weight classes. Unless you believe that the Cowboy who showed up last night was there for anything other than a paycheck. Am I missing something? I don't understand the narrative that Conor has massive, fight ending power vs bigger guys than him.

Yes again, Conor has greater timing, precision, intelligence, and athleticism than anything Tony Ferguson has ever faced before. He also has better one-punch knockdown prowess than anyone Tony Ferguson has ever faced before. While Tony is usually more intelligent than his opponents, he also will not have more intelligence than Conor. It's a wash there too.

While Tony has better stamina and grit than Conor, he has less speed, less power, less athleticism, and far less coordination than Conor. Tony is kind of a gangly, unathletic bumpkin ... until about Round 3 ... which is when Tony starts becoming an awesome fighting machine.

Cowboy Cerrone is a quite a bit like Tony, actually, and fought on equal grounds with Tony in their First Round, and throughout most of their second. I think Conor will Molly-wallop Tony all over the ring in Round 1. I don't even think it's going to be close. To my way of thinking, he may finish Tony in Round 1, possibly in Round 2.

If Conor cannot pull this off, then I see a completely focused, completely warmed up Tony Ferguson beating the ghost out of Conor McGregor.

Lee "throwing the kitchen sink" was him throwing HARD shots with leverage. Watch the fight. No hammerfists, he's dropping BOMBS. The issue is, Tony is just damn good at avoiding being hit by them clean.

Sorry, while I recognize Lee's athleticism and talent, I don't think he's a true finisher or fighter. I think Kevin Lee is a beta male and he knows it. I agree with Al Iaquinta's assessment of his basic heart and character.

While Conor may not be a deeply-game individual like Tony ... he most definitely is an alpha male ... who will absolutely kill you if he gets the opportunity to do so. I don't think Lee is like this.

 

[yougetKTFO]

Tony deserves to be where he is and no way does this drop his stock, styles make fights.

That being said I'd be hard pressed to pick a winner in this matchup, either Conor drops Ferguson several times in the first round and finishes or its back and fourth and eventually Tony takes over. Tony has eaten a big shot in a lot of his fights so I'd say Conor has a good shot of landing one too, also father time is ticking on Ferguson and his chin. Intriguing match up.

 

[mkess101]

1) The fact he knocked down Nate Diaz, almost every time he hit him clean, for the first two rounds of their second fight. Diaz has never been dropped like that, repeatedly, by anyone else. Not even Masvidal.

2) I know you don't agree with this, but I don't think Tony Ferguson has anywhere near the chin of Nate Diaz. I think if Conor catches him clean, with his new training regimen, Ferguson will drop much more decisively than Diaz, and will be more hurt as a result of it.




Yes again, Conor has greater timing, precision, intelligence, and athleticism than anything Tony Ferguson has ever faced before. He also has better one-punch knockdown prowess than anyone Tony Ferguson has ever faced before. While Tony is usually more intelligent than his opponents, he also will not have more intelligence than Conor. It's a wash there too.

While Tony has better stamina and grit than Conor, he has less speed, less power, less athleticism, and far less coordination than Conor. Tony is kind of a gangly, unathletic bumpkin ... until about Round 3 ... which is when Tony starts becoming an awesome fighting machine.

Cowboy Cerrone is a quite a bit like Tony, actually, and fought on equal grounds with Tony in their First Round, and throughout most of their second. I think Conor will Molly-wallop Tony all over the ring in Round 1. I don't even think it's going to be close. To my way of thinking, he may finish Tony in Round 1, possibly in Round 2.

If Conor cannot pull this off, then I see a completely focused, completely warmed up Tony Ferguson beating the ghost out of Conor McGregor.






Sorry, while I recognize Lee's athleticism and talent, I don't think he's a true finisher or fighter. I think Kevin Lee is a beta male and he knows it. I agree with Al Iaquinta's assessment of his basic heart and character.

Conor may not be a deeply-game individual, like Tony, he most definitely is an alpha male, who will absolutely kill you if he gets the opportunity to do so. I don't think Lee is like this.

Yeah in the end I guess we'll have to see. I think you're overrating Nate's chin and/or making it seem too much like Tony is always being hurt or knocked down. Nate was dropped by RDA, Tony ate RDA's shots easily for example. Nate was also dropped by Rory and Benson Henderson (both not scrubs obviously but neither known as huge punchers, though to be fair Rory was at WW). And Josh Thomson put Nate away. There's more evidence that Tony is more durable than Nate than vice versa. And if Conor couldn't put Nate away (and really never came close), it's unlikely imo that he would with Tony.

 

[Mixfight]

Cowboy is being massively overvalued by Conors inadequate micropenis fans, purely agenda driven. BEating cowboy is not impressive.

Agreed. Cowboy is a jobber.

 

[Mixfight]

Nah, he's drastically underrated by the mouth breathing Conor ball lickers. (See: you).

Conor would snipe Tony sloppy ass and I'm not even a big Conor fan.

 

[zippo88]

Not at all. Cowboy that went out there against Ferguson wasn’t the same fighter as the one that fought Conor.

 

[Oooxente]

Annnd here we go.

The narrative being made to make Connie,who run away from all the tough match ups like crazy,being a better tittle contender then Tony because he beat Cerrone faster .

SMH...

 

[mkess101]

Conor would snipe Tony sloppy ass and I'm not even a big Conor fan.

Nah Conor would gas and get choked out.

And...whatever. Either a Conor dickrider or Tony hater. Whichever, don't care. You're irrelevant either way.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Tony is still an amazing fighter. The cowboy win just didn't age well

 

[YouCrazyIntheHeadMan]

This is so stupid, you know sometime you're favorite sport team can lose even if they are better... All match are different just like all fight are different even if it involved the same fighters.

 

[gevoudane]

Not in my eyes

 

[WarFan90]

Nope.

Tony has those issues and still beat Cowboy, remember that he broke his nose that could have been a factor when Mcg hurt him with shoulder strikes.

I had the same thought, did tony smashing cowboys nose have an effect on easily it cracked vs mcg. We notice the scar tissue cuts difference in fighters like diaz, but does a broken nose have levels to which its more succeptible?