Definitive case for JBJ not being GOAT

what your saying are not facts sir
i had already proven that the average age of LHW fighters are 33
but why are you ignoring it
can you atleast prove it?

i dont see any failed test there
mods should ban you for lying and trolling?



Are you seriously pretending the whole event wasn't moved cuz Jones failed the prefight test and NSAC wouldnt let him fight?

These are facts. Why are you leaving these facts out?

What do you have to say about the fact that NSAC didnt want to allow Jones to fight for failing?
 
He didn't fail it. It was later stated that what he had in his body offered no advantage, which was why it was accepted and given as an official win. Precisely because the science backed him up in that it had no advantage in the amount it was found in his body. He beat Gus 2 fair and square. His only loss was a DQ in 2009, not in an actual fight. In a fight other than a DQ, he never lost. He was never outscored ever, other than in 2009 with his opponent already barely defending himself before the vertical elbows. Even Mat Hamill said "I know for a fact I didn't win that fight and that Jon Jones didn't lose that fight. That's on paper but he definitely didn't lose that".... He's undefeated, and besides a no contest vs DC 2, he has defeated 3 generations of fighters in-between 2 world classes. He broke the record for overall belt defenses in all weight classes — 12 belt defenses. 28 wins , 0 losses, 1 NC... 2 division champion. GSP and Khabib put JJ as the #1 of all times.

Like, it doesn't matter what you wish were the true — metrics, competition, consistency, fighters like GSP, Khabib, Silva, Topuria... They all say JJ is the goat. Cry all you want, but I'm sorry you will never see him lose and I'm sorry that he retired after Stipe as the goat, breaking every record from most title defenses, youngest champion, longest reign, and 16 world championship wins... You can't twist reality, no matter how much you dislike the fact that he retired unbeaten and was recognized by most fighters ppl call GOATs, as the best to ever do it.

Guess you didn't read or couldnt comprehend the OP and the follow up (1st comment).

It fully details every single way you can look at Jones resume and accomplishments. When using the same standards in comparison with others, others have done it better.

Again If you want to fully gloss over the failed tests, the DQ loss, the illegitimate title defenses and give him the absolute highest benefit of the doubt Fedor still did it better under those terms.

And no at the end of the day he still failed the drug test ahead of the rematch as the other guy said with sources (which of course you'll ignore) the place of the fight was moved because the most legitimate, most significant and vetted SAC which all other SACs look to for guidance (especially in combat sports) refused to allow the fight to happen in their jurisdiction. That is an undeniable fact. No amount of inventing other terminology to describe what jones had pulsing in his veins will erase that
 


Are you seriously pretending the whole event wasn't moved cuz Jones failed the prefight test and NSAC wouldnt let him fight?

These are facts. Why are you leaving these facts out?

What do you have to say about the fact that NSAC didnt want to allow Jones to fight for failing?
never happened, stop wtih racism against Jones and africa
 
All you Jones stans, get ready to have your panties in a twist and ready your flame throwers.

Jon will never be the GOAT. Perhaps he could have been but instead he decided to cherry pick and play it safe while gas lighting you. Carbon copy strategy of Floyd Mayweather.

Lets look at each case people point to for him being the GOAT

"Undefeated"/Streak without losing
He tops out at 20, although only 19 are wins. UFC fighters alone Khabib has more (29)

Even if you disregard his DQ loss to Hammil, the NC for failed drug test and disregard the clear robbery decisions, you have to look at how many bouts he went "undefeated" for. 31

Other fighters had longer streaks and did it in less time
Igor 35
Fedor 33
Barao 32

Wanna drop off Igor and Barao since they had a loss/losses before the streak but still ignore Jones loss cuz it was under dubious circumstances? Fedor's streak still better on equal terms.


Resume
When you really parse his resume the way sherdog loves to then he does not have very many wins vs opponents who were at or near their peak who were also ATGs

Its literally just DC, Machida, Rashad, Glover, maybe Vitor
Everyone else was way past their prime or simply were never that impressive at that weight class to begin with. Analogous to Silva vs Leites, Maia, Cote...

I can think of at least 10 or 11 fighters with much better wins/strength of schedule

The best you got is to look at names alone, but other fighters either have more wins over top 10s, all time greats, fighters with accolades (past/future) and/or legends

JBJ: DC, Lyoto, Gusx2, Glover, Rashad, Vitor, Rampage, Shogun, Stipe, Vera, Gane, Bader, Santos, Reyes, Santos, Smith.

17 wins (11 wins over major org champs)

Hendo: big nog, babalux2, ninja, Busta x2, Vitor, Wanderlei, Franklin, bisping, feijao, Fedor, shogunx2, lombard, Misaki, Gono, Yvel, Newton

18 wins (16 wins over major org champs, 3 weight classes)

Fedor: Big Nog x2, CC, AA, Tim, Schilt, Mir, Randleman, Coleman x2, Rogers, Herring, Hunt, Rampage, Lindland, Babalu, Arona, Choi (K1 champ, outweighed fedor by 120+ lbs 50% bigger than Fedor, 1.5 ft/ 14 inch height advantages)

18 wins (15 wins over major org champs, even taking out k1 its 13)

Differentiation: Dan's has more wins in this category. 8 fighters who had height, reach and/or weight advantages

Fedor has more wins in this category and fought 10 opponents who had height, reach or weight advantages

Jones has had a significant height and reach advantage over 9 opponents. Never fought at a height or reach disadvantage

ALMOST FORGOT
GSP has more top 10/ATG/wins over opponents with accolades too

Hughes x2, BJx2, Karo, Serra, Kosx2, Hardy, Alves, Bisping, Condit, Diaz, Hendricks, Trigg, Sherk, Fitch, Shields (11 wins over major org champs. Tied with Jones)

Title Defenses? See below...

Well Rampage claims he was the healthiest he's ever been going into the Jones fight so not sure why you leave him out.
 


Are you seriously pretending the whole event wasn't moved cuz Jones failed the prefight test and NSAC wouldnt let him fight?

These are facts. Why are you leaving these facts out?

What do you have to say about the fact that NSAC didnt want to allow Jones to fight for failing?
Nobody's "pretending" anything.... that has been straight-up addressed before... the event moved, so stop acting like anything is being ignored, dude... Yeah, it got shifted from Nevada to California because NSAC was super strict and wouldn't license Jones over those trace picograms of Turinabol showing up in his pre-fight test. That's a fact, but here's the full picture you're conveniently leaving out (which I have brought up already in past threads) — USADA and CSAC cleared him to fight after experts confirmed it was residual from an old exposure, not a new failure or fresh doping. Science backed that up, i.e, no performance boost from such tiny amounts (we're talking parts per trillion), and it wasn't like he popped for something active. They ruled no violation, so he competed legally. What, you think USADA just made that up? Lol that's why the fight happened, and Jones smoked Gus anyway with pure skill.

If NSAC's decision makes the whole thing "illegitimate" to you, fine, but that's your bias talking, not the official ruling. Facts are facts, he was cleared, fought, won dominantly. If you're going to cherry-pick, at least own it instead of leaving stuff out when the move has already been literally addressed. What'd be your excuse for ignoring the clearance and science then?
 
Guess you didn't read or couldnt comprehend the OP and the follow up (1st comment).

It fully details every single way you can look at Jones resume and accomplishments. When using the same standards in comparison with others, others have done it better.

Again If you want to fully gloss over the failed tests, the DQ loss, the illegitimate title defenses and give him the absolute highest benefit of the doubt Fedor still did it better under those terms.

And no at the end of the day he still failed the drug test ahead of the rematch as the other guy said with sources (which of course you'll ignore) the place of the fight was moved because the most legitimate, most significant and vetted SAC which all other SACs look to for guidance (especially in combat sports) refused to allow the fight to happen in their jurisdiction. That is an undeniable fact. No amount of inventing other terminology to describe what jones had pulsing in his veins will erase that
I have read the OP and I addressed every point head-on except the Fedor comparison, but if you're too stuck in your hate bubble to see it, that's on you. It's full of cherry-picked BS that ignores facts when applying "same standards" to others. I have no agenda, I stick to facts, that's why I look at it objectively, while you repeat the same stuff and dodge counters.

I didn't gloss over failed tests, DQ loss, illegitimate defenses, I addressed them directly... again, the DQ to Hamill was a BS rule (12-6 elbows, later changed), and it's his only "loss" in 30 fights. Failed tests? Controversial, sure, but USADA cleared multiple as residual, not active cheating, with science confirming no boost. Defenses "illegitimate"? That's you spinning the narrative and showing your bias — official wins against top guys like DC, Rampage, Shogun, Gus, Stipe stand, with 16 title wins, most in UFC history. 12 belt defenses, also most in UFC history. Even giving highest benefit of doubt, Fedor's streak was insane (28-0 run), but against who? Pride HWs like Cro Cop and Nog were legends, sure, but Jones faced deeper talent pools in UFC (two divisions, Hall of Famers fighters who weren't old except Stipe), with better metrics like title defenses (Jones' 12 vs. Fedor's 9 in Pride) and longevity (Jones 16 years unbeaten streak minus DQ)... Fedor didn't do better when Jones has more high level wins and adaptability, as Fedor lost to guys like Maldonado and Ryan Badder late, while Jones dominated Gane at HW. Apply same standards and Jones edges it. Jones dominated and subbed Ryan Badder in round 2 when both were newcomers and undefeated btw.

On the Gus 2 test again — as the other guy said with "sources" (which you think I'll ignore, but nope), I repeat : Yeah, NSAC refused because they're strict AF, event moved to Cali. Undeniable fact? Sure, but you're ignoring the undeniable clearance: USADA ruled residual Turinabol (trace picograms, no new use), backed by science and experts saying no PED effect. CSAC and USADA let it happen because facts showed it was old stuff pulsing, not "failing" fresh. No one's inventing terminologies lol that's science calling it residual, deal with it. NSAC's the "most vetted" that others look to? Yeah, they're big, but USADA's the antidoping authority, and they cleared him. Fight happened legally, Jones won clean in performance. Next?

Assuming you're talking judging criteria in fights like Reyes/Santos, yeah, neutral positions don't score big, but MMA rules prioritize effective striking, and impact, aggression, control over simply raw # of significant strikes, which was why Ankalaev won round 3 despite Alex landing more # significant strikes. Reyes outlanded in round 2 and 3 but JJ kept the composure, kept marching forwards and his striking had visible more impact, such as Reyes taking deep breaths, backing off more often, slowing down more clearly while Jones kept the steady pressure and didn't show visible wobbliness or painful signs when being hit. Mony of Reyes sign strikes were jabs to the body while retreating when pressured btw... MMA criteria isn't simply # of significant strikes, but the impact they have. And in championship rounds JJ not only had more significant strikes but dominated the visual impact criteria as well (unlike Reyes in rounds 2 and 3), with Reyes being on wobbly legs by the 4th round, with control time tipping it under standard criteria... judges saw 48-47 x2, 49-46, not robbery, a fair score when rounds 2 and 3 were swing rounds if you actually read the criteria, round 1 was clearly Reyes' and rounds 4 and 5, clearly Jones'... Same with Santos, actually Jon Jones' win there was even clearer despite the SD, which is still a win btw.

At the end of the day, you're ignoring MMA criteria, stats, and rules to push your agenda... fine, but it's weak and shows your biased mindset. Jones' resume holds up better than Fedor's under fair standards. Bring better arguments or sources next time, instead of "you'll ignore this." What's your take on Jones' actual fight IQ dominating those bouts? Bring facts, not the same recycle of old arguments...
 
Well Rampage claims he was the healthiest he's ever been going into the Jones fight so not sure why you leave him out.

True but Healthiest and peak performance are different.

GSP is probably the Healthiest hes ever been now (iirc he said as much) but no one would seriously think he'd be his best version if he went back to fighting.

Rampage had 40 fights/camps (surprising I know) and a mental breakdown (few yrs) before he fought Jones. That's a shit ton of wear n tear and a different state of mind from his pride and early UFC days
 
I have read the OP and I addressed every point head-on except the Fedor comparison, but if you're too stuck in your hate bubble to see it, that's on you. It's full of cherry-picked BS that ignores facts when applying "same standards" to others. I have no agenda, I stick to facts, that's why I look at it objectively, while you repeat the same stuff and dodge counters.

I didn't gloss over failed tests, DQ loss, illegitimate defenses, I addressed them directly... again, the DQ to Hamill was a BS rule (12-6 elbows, later changed), and it's his only "loss" in 30 fights. Failed tests? Controversial, sure, but USADA cleared multiple as residual, not active cheating, with science confirming no boost. Defenses "illegitimate"? That's you spinning the narrative and showing your bias — official wins against top guys like DC, Rampage, Shogun, Gus, Stipe stand, with 16 title wins, most in UFC history. 12 belt defenses, also most in UFC history. Even giving highest benefit of doubt, Fedor's streak was insane (28-0 run), but against who? Pride HWs like Cro Cop and Nog were legends, sure, but Jones faced deeper talent pools in UFC (two divisions, Hall of Famers fighters who weren't old except Stipe), with better metrics like title defenses (Jones' 12 vs. Fedor's 9 in Pride) and longevity (Jones 16 years unbeaten streak minus DQ)... Fedor didn't do better when Jones has more high level wins and adaptability, as Fedor lost to guys like Maldonado and Ryan Badder late, while Jones dominated Gane at HW. Apply same standards and Jones edges it. Jones dominated and subbed Ryan Badder in round 2 when both were newcomers and undefeated btw.

On the Gus 2 test again — as the other guy said with "sources" (which you think I'll ignore, but nope), I repeat : Yeah, NSAC refused because they're strict AF, event moved to Cali. Undeniable fact? Sure, but you're ignoring the undeniable clearance: USADA ruled residual Turinabol (trace picograms, no new use), backed by science and experts saying no PED effect. CSAC and USADA let it happen because facts showed it was old stuff pulsing, not "failing" fresh. No one's inventing terminologies lol that's science calling it residual, deal with it. NSAC's the "most vetted" that others look to? Yeah, they're big, but USADA's the antidoping authority, and they cleared him. Fight happened legally, Jones won clean in performance. Next?

Assuming you're talking judging criteria in fights like Reyes/Santos, yeah, neutral positions don't score big, but MMA rules prioritize effective striking, and impact, aggression, control over simply raw # of significant strikes, which was why Ankalaev won round 3 despite Alex landing more # significant strikes. Reyes outlanded in round 2 and 3 but JJ kept the composure, kept marching forwards and his striking had visible more impact, such as Reyes taking deep breaths, backing off more often, slowing down more clearly while Jones kept the steady pressure and didn't show visible wobbliness or painful signs when being hit. Mony of Reyes sign strikes were jabs to the body while retreating when pressured btw... MMA criteria isn't simply # of significant strikes, but the impact they have. And in championship rounds JJ not only had more significant strikes but dominated the visual impact criteria as well (unlike Reyes in rounds 2 and 3), with Reyes being on wobbly legs by the 4th round, with control time tipping it under standard criteria... judges saw 48-47 x2, 49-46, not robbery, a fair score when rounds 2 and 3 were swing rounds if you actually read the criteria, round 1 was clearly Reyes' and rounds 4 and 5, clearly Jones'... Same with Santos, actually Jon Jones' win there was even clearer despite the SD, which is still a win btw.

At the end of the day, you're ignoring MMA criteria, stats, and rules to push your agenda... fine, but it's weak and shows your biased mindset. Jones' resume holds up better than Fedor's under fair standards. Bring better arguments or sources next time, instead of "you'll ignore this." What's your take on Jones' actual fight IQ dominating those bouts? Bring facts, not the same recycle of old arguments...
I did bring facts. No matter how much they hurt your feelings they are facts. Sources have been posted that show Jones pissed hot before the Gus fight. You, the UFC, Jones and whoever they paid off to sweep it under the rug can say it was "pulsing", "Pico grams" or whatever all you want but the fact remains he failed. The standards were created for a reason.

Having to change the venue over a failed test makes it an illegitimate title to anyone paying attention who isn't a Jones dick rider.

There are many examples of Jones getting exceptions and being protected by the UFC, failing drug tests, hiding from testers, etc...

He doesn't need or deserve the benefit of the doubt YET I AM GRANTING YOU THAT.

If you're going to gloss over all that, sketchy judging and his DQ loss which is on his rerecord. And yes claiming its an illegitimate DQ loss is glossing. Its a double standard to not counting that loss and then ignore everything else with Jones that makes his wins questionable. If you question the validity of the loss then you have to question the validity of the questionable wins and drug test failures.

Apply the same standard of overlooking nonesense to everyone (ie. Fedor). If you do and that means ignoring the none title fights and post title can fights.

Just stack up their first 31-33 fights. I'd say 33 to 33 but Jones has no fights or wins after 31 fights.

Fedor got more wins in less time while having a height, reach and size disadvantage nearly every time and faced the same amount if not more UFC champs, top 10s and fighters with other championships & accolades. Those are absolute facts. There is no narrative there. These are facts.

Again this is giving Jones the biggest benefit of the doubt across the board.

Will you continue the double standard or will you apply equal standard fairly?

If you dont then his 2nd title run and HW run are an absolute farce and more gas lighting than the GOP and DNC combined. Illegitimate title and super questionable judging in the Reyes and Santos fights.

And even if you dont want to acknowledge that, then you'd have to acknowledge that he did not look as good in those fights as he did earlier in his career. Or will you tell us not to believe our lying eyes?

Will you say that we was still in his prime and performing at his best comparatively?
He was at the "ripe age" of 32+. Will you make the ridiculous claim that others have, that he was in his prime for those fights, despite struggling with an injured guy and a guy that has not beaten any notable LHW?

Again even if you ignore the judging. Will you say those were his best "prime" performances?

My guess is you'll continue ignoring the facts you dont like and project that there is a narrative despite you being the one applying double standards and bias the whole time
 
So again, I already addressed your question in full detail and with an analogy using current fighters.

"Pathetic scumbag" for what having a premise you dont like on an mma forum?

<36>

Why do you take this so seriously and get so emotionally attached?

Your only play now is to continually ignore, pretend things didnt happen and cry
{<BJPeen}
Lol. Got it.

You have no answer, other than he’s tall. No accomplishment in MMA, no significant win, nothing. Lol
 
I'm just mad that the corrupt ref robbed Chael Sonnen of his TKO win over Jones.
 
I did bring facts. No matter how much they hurt your feelings they are facts. Sources have been posted that show Jones pissed hot before the Gus fight. You, the UFC, Jones and whoever they paid off to sweep it under the rug can say it was "pulsing", "Pico grams" or whatever all you want but the fact remains he failed. The standards were created for a reason.

Having to change the venue over a failed test makes it an illegitimate title to anyone paying attention who isn't a Jones dick rider.

There are many examples of Jones getting exceptions and being protected by the UFC, failing drug tests, hiding from testers, etc...

He doesn't need or deserve the benefit of the doubt YET I AM GRANTING YOU THAT.

If you're going to gloss over all that, sketchy judging and his DQ loss which is on his rerecord. And yes claiming its an illegitimate DQ loss is glossing. Its a double standard to not counting that loss and then ignore everything else with Jones that makes his wins questionable. If you question the validity of the loss then you have to question the validity of the questionable wins and drug test failures.

Apply the same standard of overlooking nonesense to everyone (ie. Fedor). If you do and that means ignoring the none title fights and post title can fights.

Just stack up their first 31-33 fights. I'd say 33 to 33 but Jones has no fights or wins after 31 fights.

Fedor got more wins in less time while having a height, reach and size disadvantage nearly every time and faced the same amount if not more UFC champs, top 10s and fighters with other championships & accolades. Those are absolute facts. There is no narrative there. These are facts.

Again this is giving Jones the biggest benefit of the doubt across the board.

Will you continue the double standard or will you apply equal standard fairly?

If you dont then his 2nd title run and HW run are an absolute farce and more gas lighting than the GOP and DNC combined. Illegitimate title and super questionable judging in the Reyes and Santos fights.

And even if you dont want to acknowledge that, then you'd have to acknowledge that he did not look as good in those fights as he did earlier in his career. Or will you tell us not to believe our lying eyes?

Will you say that we was still in his prime and performing at his best comparatively?
He was at the "ripe age" of 32+. Will you make the ridiculous claim that others have, that he was in his prime for those fights, despite struggling with an injured guy and a guy that has not beaten any notable LHW?

Again even if you ignore the judging. Will you say those were his best "prime" performances?

My guess is you'll continue ignoring the facts you dont like and project that there is a narrative despite you being the one applying double standards and bias the whole time
That's just more desperate dodging and recycle,mas expected. Nothing new. Bring new evidence, don't go over the same points I've already addressed...

> DQ loss (already addressed)
> Picogram (already addressed, USADA cleared JJ as it concluded no advantage was granted. It was a clean win)
> Protected by the UFC — he got suspended more than one, 15 months for one time. He came back and won all fights still.

Even when many champions fell post USADA, Jon Jones beat DC 1, Gus, Smith, Santos, Reyes, Cyril Gane and Miocic... DC was undefeated and elite, Gus was elite too, Smith after he got beaten by JJ, guess who he defeated? Gustafsson. And how old is Gus? Same age as JJ. So Smith defeated Gus right after he took a beating and lost all 5 rounds from JJ in a totally non competitive bout. The Santos he defeated was coming off a TKO win over Jan Blachowicz. It was a fair win. Close # invalid. He had 1.5x better accuracy, 1 minute of control time, 2 takedowns...

He beat Reyes who was younger and undefeated. He struggled and got tested but still won... Getting close # winning. Rounds 2 and 3 were swing rounds, not clear Reyes' wins. Again, judging criteria aren't just about # of significant strikes, it's effective striking based on impact and damage first and foremost. Reyes threw volume, but many were glancing shots, arm punches, jabs while retreating in a straight line, punches without snapping Jones' head back — Jones absorbed them clean, kept pressuring forward. Jones' counters like his body kick and elbow in rounds 2 and 3 drew more visible effect, as Reyes was staggered when you check the 3:45 of round 2. Round 3 Reyes also had more volume, but Jones teeps, low kicks disrupted Reyes' pace, made him circle outside many times, Reyes never wobbled Jones... Jones had better accuracy in round 2 and round 3 was even, but Reyes' movements were affected visually, like Jones's jab snapping Reyes head, Jones leg kicks slowing Reyes visibly... Impact wise, Jon Jones had better visuals despite less volume. Jones absorbed Reyes' shots without any signs of wobbliness, or losing balance, etc. So, round 1 was Reyes'. Rounds 2 and 3 were swing rounds based on the UFC criteria (impact > volume). Rounds 4 and 5 were clearly JJ's due to more volume AND impact. So... 3-2 JJ is the most fair judging, whether you like it or not. More recently, Reyes was at peace with the outcome. Post JJ retirement, he even said "I didn't win, I got close to beating the greatest to ever do it". He recently admitted he got close.

Post usada, while many champions fell, JJ beat Gus 2, Smith, Santos (who had just KO's Jan Blackowski) and Reyes (who was undefeated by then). Then he beat Gane, now a #1 ranked HW, who by then had defeated every HW except Ngannou, to whom he got a close decision loss, it was a close and thought fight for Ngannou... And then Stipe Miocic, who himself after the fight said he was in a better shape in that fight than he was vs DC and Ngannou 2 due to time off to heal his body and focusing on a final fight that as Stipe said, meant a lot to him... Even Tom Aspinall in his lab channel on TNT said "Stipe didn't look old to me, rather, the fact he still kept going and fighting that way until round 3 after those brutal ground and pound elbows in round 1 was shocking, it showed his conditioning was very good... Stipe looked just as good as always to me, I was more so surprised with Jon Jones' skill set in controlling the octagon, his precise kicks and his set up takedown which is unreal to apply that with such precision". Tom said that...

JJ defeated Shogun, Machida, Rampage, DC, Stipe, Glover Teixeira... All hall of famers and former champions. And in two categories. So in accolades,that already best Fedor. He defended his belt 13x vs Fedor 9x , while JJ did that vs a tougher UFC competition and deeper talent pool — Fedor lost to Ryan Badder who was an up and comer undefeated who JJ heated easily by a ninja choke in round 2... He beat Ryan Badder, DC, Reyes, all who were undefeated until fighting JJ. He beat up guys who were up and comers and who had retired already while he was still fighting. He has gone through 3 generations, never losing in a fight other than a DQ loss, instead of a defeat by being outperformed, in 2 divisions... Fedor's resume is not the same, he lost many fights later on, he defended his titles less times than JJ did, JJ beat up more champions and hall of famers, went through 3 generations fighting all of them (except maybe Stipe) in their prime (DC said he was at his absolute best in both fights he lost to JJ...) ... He beat up up and comers undefeated like Reyes, up and comers like Gus (he was an up comers when JJ beat him despite same age), and Gane, both who had like 12 wins and 1 loss...

Recognized by all GOAT candidates that fans list as the true goat (Khabib, GSP, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo all say JJ... Fedor was never asked as far as I'm aware).

You don't have a point. All of the above are facts. It's effortless to make a response because all I need is to stick up to facts while you need to reach hard... That's the difference between whoever isn't moved by bias from whoever is... I can just list up straight facts and you can't deny that but be on recycle mode. Keep coping and I can keep posting facts only. Want another lesson? You're lucky it's for free haha 😂
 
WOW you're really denying the fact that jones has ZERO wins after 32 fights ROFLMFAO!!!!

And yes he definitely failed the drug test vs Gus2. They had to move the event cuz Vegas didnt allow his failure! LMAO

So he actually has ZERO legitimate title defenses in his 2nd run cuz it was an illegitimate title. Plus he legit lost 2 of those (Santos, Reyes) . HAHAHAHAHA what a joke!
sir can you please post jones resume?
all those fights when he was 32?
show me the loss?

so tom aspinal is past his prime as well
hes 32 with 18 fights already
same as fighters like rashad and machida when jones beat em
thats according to you


please educate us
 
WOW you're really denying the fact that jones has ZERO wins after 32 fights ROFLMFAO!!!!

And yes he definitely failed the drug test vs Gus2. They had to move the event cuz Vegas didnt allow his failure! LMAO

So he actually has ZERO legitimate title defenses in his 2nd run cuz it was an illegitimate title. Plus he legit lost 2 of those (Santos, Reyes) . HAHAHAHAHA what a joke!
sir why are you not posting the evidence?
please post it here
about the drug test
let us all see the fights where jones failed tests
then the fights gets called dq
 
sir can you please post jones resume?
all those fights when he was 32?
show me the loss?

so tom aspinal is past his prime as well
hes 32 with 18 fights already
same as fighters like rashad and machida when jones beat em
thats according to you


please educate us
No thats not according to me. Its actually the exact opposite.

You have to go with a gross mischaracterization of what I said in order to build a strawman <lmao>

I guess you just refuse to answer the question as to whether Jones looked just as good or better than he did earlier in his career.

Si.ple yes or no would do but you refuse
<puhlease>
 
sir why are you not posting the evidence?
please post it here
about the drug test
let us all see the fights where jones failed tests
then the fights gets called dq

<TrumpWrong1>

Sir its already been posted. I haven't refused anything as its already there. If you're refusing to acknowledge irrefutable facts my job is done here 10x over

Why do you refuse to acknowledge this simple facts. Is it painful for you to do so?
 
Lol. Got it.

You have no answer, other than he’s tall. No accomplishment in MMA, no significant win, nothing. Lol
{<BJPeen}

Lol got it. All you got is mischaracterization of what I said.

How about you tell us how many fighters Jones faced that outweighed him by over 100lbs, had a reach advantage on him or over a foot height advantage?

Doesn't even have to be all 3. Just 1. How many?
 
That's just more desperate dodging and recycle,mas expected. Nothing new. Bring new evidence, don't go over the same points I've already addressed...

> DQ loss (already addressed)
> Picogram (already addressed, USADA cleared JJ as it concluded no advantage was granted. It was a clean win)
> Protected by the UFC — he got suspended more than one, 15 months for one time. He came back and won all fights still.

Even when many champions fell post USADA, Jon Jones beat DC 1, Gus, Smith, Santos, Reyes, Cyril Gane and Miocic... DC was undefeated and elite, Gus was elite too, Smith after he got beaten by JJ, guess who he defeated? Gustafsson. And how old is Gus? Same age as JJ. So Smith defeated Gus right after he took a beating and lost all 5 rounds from JJ in a totally non competitive bout. The Santos he defeated was coming off a TKO win over Jan Blachowicz. It was a fair win. Close # invalid. He had 1.5x better accuracy, 1 minute of control time, 2 takedowns...

He beat Reyes who was younger and undefeated. He struggled and got tested but still won... Getting close # winning. Rounds 2 and 3 were swing rounds, not clear Reyes' wins. Again, judging criteria aren't just about # of significant strikes, it's effective striking based on impact and damage first and foremost. Reyes threw volume, but many were glancing shots, arm punches, jabs while retreating in a straight line, punches without snapping Jones' head back — Jones absorbed them clean, kept pressuring forward. Jones' counters like his body kick and elbow in rounds 2 and 3 drew more visible effect, as Reyes was staggered when you check the 3:45 of round 2. Round 3 Reyes also had more volume, but Jones teeps, low kicks disrupted Reyes' pace, made him circle outside many times, Reyes never wobbled Jones... Jones had better accuracy in round 2 and round 3 was even, but Reyes' movements were affected visually, like Jones's jab snapping Reyes head, Jones leg kicks slowing Reyes visibly... Impact wise, Jon Jones had better visuals despite less volume. Jones absorbed Reyes' shots without any signs of wobbliness, or losing balance, etc. So, round 1 was Reyes'. Rounds 2 and 3 were swing rounds based on the UFC criteria (impact > volume). Rounds 4 and 5 were clearly JJ's due to more volume AND impact. So... 3-2 JJ is the most fair judging, whether you like it or not. More recently, Reyes was at peace with the outcome. Post JJ retirement, he even said "I didn't win, I got close to beating the greatest to ever do it". He recently admitted he got close.

Post usada, while many champions fell, JJ beat Gus 2, Smith, Santos (who had just KO's Jan Blackowski) and Reyes (who was undefeated by then). Then he beat Gane, now a #1 ranked HW, who by then had defeated every HW except Ngannou, to whom he got a close decision loss, it was a close and thought fight for Ngannou... And then Stipe Miocic, who himself after the fight said he was in a better shape in that fight than he was vs DC and Ngannou 2 due to time off to heal his body and focusing on a final fight that as Stipe said, meant a lot to him... Even Tom Aspinall in his lab channel on TNT said "Stipe didn't look old to me, rather, the fact he still kept going and fighting that way until round 3 after those brutal ground and pound elbows in round 1 was shocking, it showed his conditioning was very good... Stipe looked just as good as always to me, I was more so surprised with Jon Jones' skill set in controlling the octagon, his precise kicks and his set up takedown which is unreal to apply that with such precision". Tom said that...

JJ defeated Shogun, Machida, Rampage, DC, Stipe, Glover Teixeira... All hall of famers and former champions. And in two categories. So in accolades,that already best Fedor. He defended his belt 13x vs Fedor 9x , while JJ did that vs a tougher UFC competition and deeper talent pool — Fedor lost to Ryan Badder who was an up and comer undefeated who JJ heated easily by a ninja choke in round 2... He beat Ryan Badder, DC, Reyes, all who were undefeated until fighting JJ. He beat up guys who were up and comers and who had retired already while he was still fighting. He has gone through 3 generations, never losing in a fight other than a DQ loss, instead of a defeat by being outperformed, in 2 divisions... Fedor's resume is not the same, he lost many fights later on, he defended his titles less times than JJ did, JJ beat up more champions and hall of famers, went through 3 generations fighting all of them (except maybe Stipe) in their prime (DC said he was at his absolute best in both fights he lost to JJ...) ... He beat up up and comers undefeated like Reyes, up and comers like Gus (he was an up comers when JJ beat him despite same age), and Gane, both who had like 12 wins and 1 loss...

Recognized by all GOAT candidates that fans list as the true goat (Khabib, GSP, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo all say JJ... Fedor was never asked as far as I'm aware).

You don't have a point. All of the above are facts. It's effortless to make a response because all I need is to stick up to facts while you need to reach hard... That's the difference between whoever isn't moved by bias from whoever is... I can just list up straight facts and you can't deny that but be on recycle mode. Keep coping and I can keep posting facts only. Want another lesson? You're lucky it's for free haha 😂

<36>

So you're just going to ignore the OP, every reply and every other post in this thread to repeat points that have been addressed.

Everything you wrote has been thoroughly debunked.

Just answer these few si.ple questions

Does Jones have more than 29 wins on record?

How many wins did Jones have within his forst 10 years?

Did Jones have better performances before or after age 32?

How many fighters had a height advantage on Jones?

How many had a reach advantage?

How many drug tests did Jones fail?

Did NSAC refused to allow him to fight?
What was THEIR reason?

Will you answer these or will you refuse, ignore and just repost the same verbal diarrhea?
 
<TrumpWrong1>

Sir its already been posted. I haven't refused anything as its already there. If you're refusing to acknowledge irrefutable facts my job is done here 10x over

Why do you refuse to acknowledge this simple facts. Is it painful for you to do so?
you said jones hasnt won a fight when he was 32?
you havent posted anything
just your opinion
your opinion isnt a fact until you prove it
 
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