Definitive case for JBJ not being GOAT

[Luffy]

All you Jones stans, get ready to have your panties in a twist and ready your flame throwers.

Jon will never be the GOAT. Perhaps he could have been but instead he decided to cherry pick and play it safe while gas lighting you. Carbon copy strategy of Floyd Mayweather.

Lets look at each case people point to for him being the GOAT

"Undefeated"/Streak without losing
He tops out at 20, although only 19 are wins. UFC fighters alone Khabib has more (29)

Even if you disregard his DQ loss to Hammil, the NC for failed drug test and disregard the clear robbery decisions, you have to look at how many bouts he went "undefeated" for. 31

Other fighters had longer streaks and did it in less time
Igor 35
Fedor 33
Barao 32

Wanna drop off Igor and Barao since they had a loss/losses before the streak but still ignore Jones loss cuz it was under dubious circumstances? Fedor's streak still better on equal terms.


Resume
When you really parse his resume the way sherdog loves to then he does not have very many wins vs opponents who were at or near their peak who were also ATGs

Its literally just DC, Machida, Rashad, Glover, maybe Vitor
Everyone else was way past their prime or simply were never that impressive at that weight class to begin with. Analogous to Silva vs Leites, Maia, Cote...

I can think of at least 10 or 11 fighters with much better wins/strength of schedule

The best you got is to look at names alone, but other fighters either have more wins over top 10s, all time greats, fighters with accolades (past/future) and/or legends

JBJ: DC, Lyoto, Gusx2, Glover, Rashad, Vitor, Rampage, Shogun, Stipe, Vera, Gane, Bader, Santos, Reyes, Santos, Smith.

17 wins (11 wins over major org champs)

Hendo: big nog, babalux2, ninja, Busta x2, Vitor, Wanderlei, Franklin, bisping, feijao, Fedor, shogunx2, lombard, Misaki, Gono, Yvel, Newton

18 wins (16 wins over major org champs, 3 weight classes)

Fedor: Big Nog x2, CC, AA, Tim, Schilt, Mir, Randleman, Coleman x2, Rogers, Herring, Hunt, Rampage, Lindland, Babalu, Arona, Choi (K1 champ, outweighed fedor by 120+ lbs 50% bigger than Fedor, 1.5 ft/ 14 inch height advantages)

18 wins (15 wins over major org champs, even taking out k1 its 13)

Differentiation: Dan's has more wins in this category. 8 fighters who had height, reach and/or weight advantages

Fedor has more wins in this category and fought 10 opponents who had height, reach or weight advantages

Jones has had a significant height and reach advantage over 9 opponents. Never fought at a height or reach disadvantage

ALMOST FORGOT
GSP has more top 10/ATG/wins over opponents with accolades too

Hughes x2, BJx2, Karo, Serra, Kosx2, Hardy, Alves, Bisping, Condit, Diaz, Hendricks, Trigg, Sherk, Fitch, Shields (11 wins over major org champs. Tied with Jones)

Title Defenses? See below...

U mad? Wait until he's back. Let's see who gets the last win....

 

[Poirierfan]

Title Defenses
Under charitable terms
11 LHW, 1 HW

But this is glossing over a lot of BS. 3 controversial decisions, a failed drug test in the Gus rematch to win the belt. Complete joke defenses vs Sonnen and Stipe.

So if we’re gonna go charitable and gloss let's go all the way. Lets count wins after winning belts

JBJ 15

Fedor 18

Total Wins & Time
Furthermore, he only has 28 wins, other fighters have more wins. Khabib has more in less time.

If you account for strength of schedule, Khabib falls out but many other fighters still have more with and equal or better strength of schedule.

At best while ignoring, controversial losses, failed drug tests, eye pokes, etc... he may be the LHW GOAT but Not P4P (HW run was a joke) and definitely the overall GOAT.

The best case for that would be Fedor. And before you dismiss him because he lost later in his career consider this.

He amassed 33 fights with no legitimate losses in 10 years before he was clearly out of his prime. Comparatively Jones at best has 31 fights with no legitimate losses in 16 years. Jones had a height and reach advantage in every fight. Fedor did not in most of his.

And before you say "Fedor was only 33 yrs old, no way he was out of prime". Please tell us how well Jones has looked after 32 with less fights less camps. Cuz most if not all people would agree he looked like trash vs Santos, Reyes, Old Stipe. Only doing well vs 1 dimensional Gane. He was far more impressive before those fights.

You get an A+.

 

[Poirierfan]

Mods, how is this dipshit back from being banned? @Luffy

Does he have nudes of someone?

Edit; fixed with ignore function. Lol

 

[Luffy]

You get an A+.

Well, you all said he was ducking. Now he's back. He said he'll fight whoever is the champion in November. Let's see.... Rule #1 of fight club, never underestimate Jon Jones.

 

[Luffy]

Mods, how is this dipshit back from being banned? @Luffy

I was temporarily banned. Sorry that your wishes of seeing JJ retiring like you wanted didn't come true. I'm not here to be nice. I'm just speaking the truth. If the truth hurts you, then that's a you problem. Find a psychiatrist or something to vent how much you hate JJ. Not my problem. Deal with it.

 

[Luffy]

Mods, how is this dipshit back from being banned? @Luffy

Does he have nudes of someone?

Edit; fixed with ignore function. Lol

My guy discovered the ignore feature just now. Wow!!

 

[Mob69]

Don't need to read it, Jon's not the "goat" and neither is anybody else. No denying he had an amazing couple year stretch from like 2011-2013, and at least a little of that was right place right time catching former champs after they've had some losses and surgeries. After 2013 he was still winning, but was very inactive, fighting like once/year and going to mostly lackluster decisions with good but not great fighters, the exception being the Cormier fights where he started regularly getting busted for PEDs.

He also had like 4 or 5 wins over guys who were MWs and weren't even champs at MW and had multiple losses there, 2 coin flip decisions and an outright robbery decision, and his best career performance was overturned because of steroids. He's definitely "a great", but there are a lot of asterisks on his record to be considered the standalone "goat".

This is a brutal dissection. I love it.

Show me a single win where Jones fulfilled all four of the following:

1. Defeated an all-time great level fighter
2. Did so at a time when the opponent wasn't either unhealthy coming in, old, or we can now see was clearly past his best
3. Not a natural MW
4. Where Jones did not produce some alarming test results

There aren't any...

 

[Luffy]

You all miss the point. Jon Jones' huuuuge IQ is his main weapon and why he never loses. Like Pereira, his IQ is unmatchable. Only Alex's comes close, but not quite there yet. JJ's brain for fighting is his most powerful weapon. He studies the opponents to the point he always goes with game plans a, b, c or d. Now that he's older, he is taking Ketone-IQ to keep his mind sharp, focused:




No power hack, no steroids... Just fuels that sharpen his mind. Train smarter, not harder. KeTone-IQ!! Sherdoggers should all take it so they can analyse the fighters and UFC with a better sense, other than tripping.

 

[volcom5]

Who said anything about Fedor v Chael?

No one. Again you have to rely on strawman

And no Chael was not a ranked LHW you dolt. At best he was #3 or 4 at MW. At the very least he'd have to be ranked #1 for it to matter being that its a smaller guy moving up.

and if you want to count him as a "name" cuz he technically beat Filho for the belt and only dodnt get it cuz Filho missed weight, I'll give you that but then you'd have e to count it on Fedors resume to unless you want to be a hypocrite with the exact same fighter... I wouldn't put it passed you. And I really DGAF cuz you the most disingenuous bad faith debater on sherdog.

As for Choi I already stated why Choi is in there which of course you ignore. The only deflection is your own cock into your own ass.

You contradict yourself just to have a cunt hair of an argument cuz you just love to engage with me. Each time I dunk on you ass and you just get more missed and deeper I get into your head.

To put it in the most basic terms possible. The equivalent of Fedor beating Choi would be Belal beating Vehoven.

I'll spell it out further since you dont have enough brain cells to process it.

Again Choi was K1 champ, outweighed Fedor by 50%(123lbs), 1.5 ft reach advantage, 14, 15 inch height advantage

Verhoven is Glory champ Would have roughly a 50% (100lb) weight advantage, 6 inch height advantage, 7 inch reach advantage.

So actually Rico would have less of an advantage with Belal than Choi did with Fedor. And yet no one in their right mind would say that Belal beating Rico would not impressive as fuck and a very significant win.


But go ahead double down while you imagine me 8 inches deep. Im already rent free in your head. It would be no surprise if you fantasize about me being inside you in other ways

Lol, Choi didnt do nothing in MMA, Literally nothing.

What did Choi achieve in MIXED MARTIAL ARTS, that’s what we’re talking about.

You’re shitting on Jones win over Chael…. And praise Fedors win over Lindland…

Keep going man, show everyone the dishonest delusional takes you have, I mean you said Arona was in his PRIME in his 2nd MMA fight to count that as a prime win for Fedor, and then you say Dan Henderson beat a prime Shogun Rua and then Jones beat a out of prime Shogun Rua.

You’re mentally ill, you got some form of sickness.

 

[DesiredUserName]

Jon Jones' huuuuge IQ is his main weapon and why he never loses.

That's hilarious. His pea-brain IQ is the one sole reason he lost his only match.

 

[BowserJr]

Lol, Choi didnt do nothing in MMA, Literally nothing.

What did Choi achieve in MIXED MARTIAL ARTS, that’s what we’re talking about.

You’re shitting on Jones win over Chael…. And praise Fedors win over Lindland…

Keep going man, show everyone the dishonest delusional takes you have, I mean you said Arona was in his PRIME in his 2nd MMA fight to count that as a prime win for Fedor, and then you say Dan Henderson beat a prime Shogun Rua and then Jones beat a out of prime Shogun Rua.

You’re mentally ill, you got some form of sickness.

The best you can do is shift goal post, straw man and bring up half assed posts from other threads done while waiting in line to pick up take out or did with a few minutes down time at work?

I might as well bring up the fact that you enjoy sucking dogs turds out of their ass as a counter argument.

Matt Lindlad was ranked number 1 MW when he fought Fedor. Before you bring up fight matrix retro active algorithm ranking. How about you actually use real rankings

MW - 2007 - Jun 27 - Weekly
1. Matt Lindland
2. Anderson Silva
3. Paulo Filho
4. Rich Franklin
5. Dan Henderson
6. Denis Kang
7. Nathan Marquardt
8. Robbie Lawler
9. Kazuo Misaki
10. Frank Trigg

A few months before Matt lost to Vitor, here on Sherdog they interviewed Matt and one of the main topics was how he felt about getting unsealed by Silva as the number 1 MW in most rankings without having lost a MW bout in years.

For the record Silva became #1 universally after beating Marquardt.


Youre simply a bad faith debater, dishonest, disingenuous, deludded and infatuation with me.

If you cant debate the op... NEXT

 

[BowserJr]

he look like shit when he was 32? why isnt he losing then?
lol
you just cant accept the fact that he aint losing

what do you call guys like fedor who got strangled and ktfo?
even shittier i guess?

Yup you have ignore what your lying eyes are telling you. You have to ignore evey counter argument and pretend those facts dont exist.

Ask anyone who doesn't stroke Jones if he looked just as good vs Santos, Smith and Reyes as he did vs DC, or Machida, or Evans. No one would say yes.

Most people had him losing to Santos and Reyes.

The best argument you have is to ignore that he has ZERO wins past 31 fights

 

[BowserJr]

its not defeat ive posted facts about average age of LHWS prime
but then you ignore all of that

but then again how tf can you even fight past prime fighters for 16 years
lol is that even possible? all those fighters lining up just to beat him

Again you confuse/conflate 2 different points cuz you're either massively inept, delusional or disingenuous (if you dont k ow what that means look it up).

Fact is Jones has Zero wins after 32 fights. Fact is Jones failed multiple drug tests.

Fact is he's fought a bunch of guys after they had multiple injuries, tons of fights, camps and mileage, and who he dwarfed. The few he didn't were from the weakest LHW era of all time. The same guys that had trouble beating really old shop worn opponents and couldn't string more than 3 wins together at LHW.

There are only 4 maybe 5 guys that dont fall within those factual categories.

 

[Luffy]

That's hilarious. His pea-brain IQ is the one sole reason he lost his only match.

By DQ you mean? Mat Hamill was not even defending himself anymore. JJ was looking at the referee like saying "what else do I need to do so you can stop this fight??" ...

 

[Streeter]

Dude was never beaten on cage only a dq when he was about to get finish. Also has greatest resume Hea a POS but is the greatest ever

 

[DesiredUserName]

By DQ you mean? Mat Hamill was not even defending himself anymore. JJ was looking at the referee like saying "what else do I need to do so you can stop this fight??" ...

Yeah. Dumb Quotient! That's what you have when you lose because you are too stupid to learn the rules.

 

[JKS]

The best you can do is shift goal post, straw man and bring up half assed posts from other threads done while waiting in line to pick up take out or did with a few minutes down time at work?

I might as well bring up the fact that you enjoy sucking dogs turds out of their ass as a counter argument.

Matt Lindlad was ranked number 1 MW when he fought Fedor. Before you bring up fight matrix retro active algorithm ranking. How about you actually use real rankings

MW - 2007 - Jun 27 - Weekly
1. Matt Lindland
2. Anderson Silva
3. Paulo Filho
4. Rich Franklin
5. Dan Henderson
6. Denis Kang
7. Nathan Marquardt
8. Robbie Lawler
9. Kazuo Misaki
10. Frank Trigg

A few months before Matt lost to Vitor, here on Sherdog they interviewed Matt and one of the main topics was how he felt about getting unsealed by Silva as the number 1 MW in most rankings without having lost a MW bout in years.

For the record Silva became #1 universally after beating Marquardt.


Youre simply a bad faith debater, dishonest, disingenuous, deludded and infatuation with me.

If you cant debate the op... NEXT

I don't know where you're getting these Micky Mouse rankings, but in no way shape or form was Lindland the #1 ranked MW in the world, that is laughable. Andreson was the #1 ranked MW on every ranking site. He was UFC champ and already a few defenses in. What kind of imbecile would rank Lindland #1 at MW.

 

[BowserJr]

I don't know where you're getting these Micky Mouse rankings, but in no way shape or form was Lindland the #1 ranked MW in the world, that is laughable. Andreson was the #1 ranked MW on every ranking site. He was UFC champ and already a few defenses in. What kind of imbecile would rank Lindland #1 at MW.

Sherdog, mmaweekly, bloodyelbow.

He had no losses since 2004 to Terrel. 10 fights in 3 yrs.

In that time Anderson had lost to Chonan and Okami (though it was DQ).

His defense was Lutter. He defended vs Marquardt later that year (07) which made him #1

Before that MW was a bit of a mess.

Hendo was the clear #1 for a little bit after unifying the 83/85 belt by beating Busta in the GP. But then he lost to low ranked Misaki.

Franklin had pretty much only beaten Evans and Crow as somewhat notable opponents.

Kind of a mind fuck looking back at the 2006-2008 MW picture

So ya Lindland was #1. Anderson passed him without Lindland losing at MW til the Vitor fight. Sherdog interviewed him asking about the drop in ranking at the time and he said it was BS

 

[volcom5]

The best you can do is shift goal post, straw man and bring up half assed posts from other threads done while waiting in line to pick up take out or did with a few minutes down time at work?

I might as well bring up the fact that you enjoy sucking dogs turds out of their ass as a counter argument.

Matt Lindlad was ranked number 1 MW when he fought Fedor. Before you bring up fight matrix retro active algorithm ranking. How about you actually use real rankings

MW - 2007 - Jun 27 - Weekly
1. Matt Lindland
2. Anderson Silva
3. Paulo Filho
4. Rich Franklin
5. Dan Henderson
6. Denis Kang
7. Nathan Marquardt
8. Robbie Lawler
9. Kazuo Misaki
10. Frank Trigg

A few months before Matt lost to Vitor, here on Sherdog they interviewed Matt and one of the main topics was how he felt about getting unsealed by Silva as the number 1 MW in most rankings without having lost a MW bout in years.

For the record Silva became #1 universally after beating Marquardt.


Youre simply a bad faith debater, dishonest, disingenuous, deludded and infatuation with me.

If you cant debate the op... NEXT

So again you keep deflecting, What did Hong Man Choi do in MMA to be considered a great win in MMA for Fedor? What cause he”s tall

Thanks for proving your hypocrisy again, you put Lindland as a good win for Fedor a MW Fedor is career HW, sure yiu can do that. But then you don’t have Sonnen as a win for Jones in the same post. You omit names on peoples records to push your bullshit narrative. You did this with Henderson, Bj Penn and Anderson Silva, even GSP. you leave out names on other fighters resumes to prop up Fedors number of wins.

You’re dishonest, omit some things and then add some delusional spin on your posts, You’re the on who went around saying Ricardo Arona was in his prime in his 2nd MMA to count thst as prime win for Fedor and then say Bader & Jones 12 fights in ARE not in there Primes.

Keep going though, offcrouse you won’t take accountability, pathetic. If this how you act and create Bull shit on Karate Forum, imagine the bullshit you say outside of it.

 

[Luffy]

Even Tom said that "Jon Jones fights like no one, it's amazing to watch him fight, it's like beautiful. He's a legend"




I honestly think it'll be JJ vs Alex Pereira or either JJ or Alex Pereira are going to fight Tom and I bet on either of them bearing Tom for sure. Just by the interviews, their psychology. Tom is worried, anxious, not happy with being the undisputed. It's like someone thinking his HW belt is being taken in the next fight, like really. Alex is saying "I'll buy a rocket if I get the belt in HW". And Alex is seen in the gym constantly in footage, training heavily and doing drillings, sparring with HW wrestlers who weigh 250 lbs... He's preparing for other fights. Tom looks skinner, like that video of him training with Craig Jones. Seemed almost like Craig Jones was giving Tom a lesson in wrestling lol