Definitive case for JBJ not being GOAT

[NoStoneUnturned]

GSP and Khabib have both stated Jon Jones is the GOAT. I'm going to go with their opinion. Terrible person, damn good fighter.

GSP:
"I mean, you talk about legacy, Jon Jones is probably the best fighter that ever lived," St-Pierre told Bloody Elbow. "If I have to choose someone in his prime that I put in the Coliseum, hand-to-hand, I think it would be Jon Jones".

 

[bng]

TL;DR: JBJ was afraid of facing prime legend killer the viper Randy Orton thus why he is not the goat

 

[drowned]

It's true. He has one great win in DC and three or maybe four good ones. The rest were against older, smaller guys. He's behind a lot more people than just Fedor though.

 

[volcom5]

BowserJr again with the dishonesty.

You adding Choi as a great win for Fedor, based on what exactly? He didn’t do nothing MMA, that’s what we’re talking about right? And then you omit Chael Sonnen as a win for Jones. Hell you were out here shitting on Jones for even putting a thought out there for Alex Pereira to be a possible opponent, Alex Pereira, a double champion in both MMA & Glory, beat 3 Champions back to back and Khalil Roundtree, i’m going to use your logic here….must be elite because he beat Gokhan Saki, K1 Grand Prix Champion.

Come on, dude. Only thing you’re proving a definitive of is that Jon Jones got you shook and you lie a lot to push your narrative.

offcourse you’re not going to put Sonnen as a win for Jones because then the numbers tie, and if you remove Choi who has no bearing as a good win in MMA for Fedor then Fedor has lesser wins.

You’re so full of shit, yesterday you literally counted Dan Hendersons win over Shogun Rua as a great because in your words Shogun was at his “peak” but then diminish Jon Jones win over Shogun.

You’re one of the most dishonest users on here, it’s pathetic.

 

[Pequeño Corey]

People confuse losses via DQ or wins being overturned with actually losing a fist fight. You can argue that Jon should have lost close, competitive fights, but the cold hard fact is that no one has beaten him in the octagon. In this sense, he is 100% undefeated. If this is your GOAT criteria, than Khabibi is the only other guy in the discussion. Unfortunately, Beeb’s record includes 16 cans on the Russian circuit before coming to the UFC, most with no wiki. Jon was in the UFC after 6 and fought for a title after another 7.

If you’d like to compare long, unbeaten streaks with losses that came before or after, then yes, Fedor, Igor, and Barao are worthy of considering. I have Fedor and Jones as 1A and 1B. No dispute there.

I place Igor in that “greatest that never been champ category”, and Barao as a top BW GOAT. I don’t need to dissect why neither of them are in p4p GOAT discussions.

Resume:
-Hendo is in the aforementioned Igor category. Lost and finished multiple times in his prime. An all time great that is one of my personal favs, but not a p4p GOAT.

-Fedor; again, no argument.

Differentiation:

OK. Jon had phsyical advantages, but he knew how to use them. Height and reach mean fuck all if you can’t put the rest together. There’s a reason that a guy like Struve isn’t in this discussion. Saying that Jon can’t be GOAT bc he had physical advantages comes off as desperate and deranged imo. Worst point you have made so far. Age? Not Jon’s fault and out of his control. People say the same thing about Stipe.

GSP? Again; no argument. If you place GSP over Jon, I don’t consider that wrong or far fetched.

Will address the second half later.

 

[Subline]

The problem with this argument is that the fighters you list in each category only edge Jones in that specific area and are lackluster in others, while Jones' is near the top in all categories. For example, you mention Hendo having a comparable list of wins, but he doesn't some close when it comes to win streak, Khabib has a bigger streak, but didn't have the same strength of schedule.

Regardless, I think both DJ and GSP are above Jones due to facing more skilled competition (if you can look past name value) and having a comparable level of dominance/win-loss. But Jones is still up there at the top and nitpicking each criteria is something you can do with any goat candidate.

 

[BigGucciSosa]

Didn't read lol

 

[TJH Exitium]

pictogram

 

[GluttonforPunishment]

Boy some of you so called men sit around thinking of other men way too much.

 

[Pequeño Corey]

“3 controversial decisions.”

You can’t have it both ways. You site GSP as the Jones antidote, but he also has a controversial decision. If he lost to Johnny as many believe he did, how would that affect his legacy? He retired after that and only came back when he saw an opportunity with a weak champion (sound familiar?) Jon otoh, didn’t retire after his first close decision. He decided to collect a few more close decisions before retiring from LHW and starting the prize fighting stage of his career. Still undefeated in the octagon.

Dirty fighter? Sure. Blame the refs and UFC culture for not enforcing the rules. Fighters now have finally caught up and many are routinely taking advantage of free eyepokes and nutshots. Jon was simply the first to routinely and transparently exploit it.

Does this demonstrate a character flaw? Yes. But being a scumbag doesn’t mean you’re not the best at what you do. It just means you’re a shitty person. And no one is disputing that Jon is a trash human being.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

You've convinced me that if you combine the accomplishments of all other fighters besides Jones, to just Jones, then yeah Summation Fighter is better and the real GOAT.

 

[2004 account]

Fedor wipes his ass with Jones's career and tainted accolades

I say we start calling him Jon Asterisk

 

[Uber_Noober]

There can be no goat until the end of time, until then, there’ll just be a bunch of dudes punching each other in the face repeatedly.

 

[Captain Herb]

He made Cormier cry, live, on TV, in front of the whole world. Jones will always be GOAT for that alone.

You have a very childish outlook on life

 

[Captain Herb]

Can he even dunk a basketball?

6-4 black dude can't dunk

 

[BowserJr]

Jones is the best fighter I’ve ever seen

Casual

 

[BowserJr]

TL;DR: JBJ was afraid of facing prime legend killer the viper Randy Orton thus why he is not the goat

Compelling argument

 

[BowserJr]

You have a very childish outlook on life

And DC made him cry in public cuz he was so afraid of DC that he took PEDs

 

[BowserJr]

You've convinced me that if you combine the accomplishments of all other fighters besides Jones, to just Jones, then yeah Summation Fighter is better and the real GOAT.

Nah. Fedor alone is better.

More wins over top 10s ATGs, longer streaks in less time. Sure he lost some after his 33 fights but Jones has 0 wins after 31 fights

 

[BowserJr]

“3 controversial decisions.”

You can’t have it both ways. You site GSP as the Jones antidote, but he also has a controversial decision. If he lost to Johnny as many believe he did, how would that affect his legacy? He retired after that and only came back when he saw an opportunity with a weak champion (sound familiar?) Jon otoh, didn’t retire after his first close decision. He decided to collect a few more close decisions before retiring from LHW and starting the prize fighting stage of his career. Still undefeated in the octagon.

Dirty fighter? Sure. Blame the refs and UFC culture for not enforcing the rules. Fighters now have finally caught up and many are routinely taking advantage of free eyepokes and nutshots. Jon was simply the first to routinely and transparently exploit it.

Does this demonstrate a character flaw? Yes. But being a scumbag doesn’t mean you’re not the best at what you do. It just means you’re a shitty person. And no one is disputing that Jon is a trash human being.

And I said if we gloss over that and use that same gloss on others so its apples to apples he still isn't the best