Definitive case for JBJ not being GOAT

[BowserJr]

The problem with this argument is that the fighters you list in each category only edge Jones in that specific area and are lackluster in others, while Jones' is near the top in all categories. For example, you mention Hendo having a comparable list of wins, but he doesn't some close when it comes to win streak, Khabib has a bigger streak, but didn't have the same strength of schedule.

Regardless, I think both DJ and GSP are above Jones due to facing more skilled competition (if you can look past name value) and having a comparable level of dominance/win-loss. But Jones is still up there at the top and nitpicking each criteria is something you can do with any goat candidate.

Nope Fedor is better. More wins over ATGs and top 10s, longer undefeated streak at 33 and did in less time.

Sure Fedor looked bad after 33yrs and 33 fights. Jones too looked bad after 32 yrs 29 fights. In the case of Fedor he got some losses. In the case of Jon he has 0 wins after 31 fights

 

[BowserJr]

People confuse losses via DQ or wins being overturned with actually losing a fist fight. You can argue that Jon should have lost close, competitive fights, but the cold hard fact is that no one has beaten him in the octagon. In this sense, he is 100% undefeated. If this is your GOAT criteria, than Khabibi is the only other guy in the discussion. Unfortunately, Beeb’s record includes 16 cans on the Russian circuit before coming to the UFC, most with no wiki. Jon was in the UFC after 6 and fought for a title after another 7.

If you’d like to compare long, unbeaten streaks with losses that came before or after, then yes, Fedor, Igor, and Barao are worthy of considering. I have Fedor and Jones as 1A and 1B. No dispute there.

I place Igor in that “greatest that never been champ category”, and Barao as a top BW GOAT. I don’t need to dissect why neither of them are in p4p GOAT discussions.

Resume:
-Hendo is in the aforementioned Igor category. Lost and finished multiple times in his prime. An all time great that is one of my personal favs, but not a p4p GOAT.

-Fedor; again, no argument.

Differentiation:

OK. Jon had phsyical advantages, but he knew how to use them. Height and reach mean fuck all if you can’t put the rest together. There’s a reason that a guy like Struve isn’t in this discussion. Saying that Jon can’t be GOAT bc he had physical advantages comes off as desperate and deranged imo. Worst point you have made so far. Age? Not Jon’s fault and out of his control. People say the same thing about Stipe.

GSP? Again; no argument. If you place GSP over Jon, I don’t consider that wrong or far fetched.

Will address the second half later.

I agree. You definitely need to k own how to use those advantages and thats where Jones excels. Its also why he looked average vs average comp when those advantages are minimized.

Im just stating that its more impressive to have all those wins/ streak with a great strength of schedule while being at physical disadvantages

 

[markg171]

Never ceases to amaze me how many of you think it’s worse to maybe possibly should’ve lost a 48-47 decision than guys who’ve been knocked the fuck out

 

[BowserJr]

BowserJr again with the dishonesty.

You adding Choi as a great win for Fedor, based on what exactly? He didn’t do nothing MMA, that’s what we’re talking about right? And then you omit Chael Sonnen as a win for Jones. Hell you were out here shitting on Jones for even putting a thought out there for Alex Pereira to be a possible opponent, Alex Pereira, a double champion in both MMA & Glory, beat 3 Champions back to back and Khalil Roundtree, i’m going to use your logic here….must be elite because he beat Gokhan Saki, K1 Grand Prix Champion.

Come on, dude. Only thing you’re proving a definitive of is that Jon Jones got you shook and you lie a lot to push your narrative.

offcourse you’re not going to put Sonnen as a win for Jones because then the numbers tie, and if you remove Choi who has no bearing as a good win in MMA for Fedor then Fedor has lesser wins.

You’re so full of shit, yesterday you literally counted Dan Hendersons win over Shogun Rua as a great because in your words Shogun was at his “peak” but then diminish Jon Jones win over Shogun.

You’re one of the most dishonest users on here, it’s pathetic.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... of course you couldn't help yourself yet again.

And this post here shows exactly why your so full of shit.

In a different thread I mentioned Chael in Jones wins and you complained that it was inaccurate cuz Chael didn't do anything other than almost beating Anderson. Now you're here saying he should be added.

Clearly I have you shook and am rent free in your head cuz you're always trying to engage with me. Amusingly its always with the most inept strawmen arguments at best and weak ad himinem at worst.

As far as Hong Man Choi. Its right there in the OP as to why he is included. But as usual you just ignore shit thats inconvenient to your strawman "argument"

 

[volcom5]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... of course you couldn't help yourself yet again.

And this post here shows exactly why your so full of shit.

In a different thread I mentioned Chael in Jones wins and you complained that it was inaccurate cuz Chael didn't do anything other than almost beating Anderson. Now you're here saying he should be added.

Clearly I have you shook and am rent free in your head cuz you're always trying to engage with me. Amusingly its always with the most inept strawmen arguments at best and weak ad himinem at worst.

As far as Hi g Man Choi. It’s right there in the OP as to why he is included. But as usual you just ignore shit thats inconvenient to your strawman "argument"

Jones beat Chael when he was ranked, Fedor beat Chael when he wasn’t.

Hong Man Choi is in no fucking way a good win for Fedor, he didn’t do shit in MMA, zip nada.

MMA GOAT is your premise & you add Choi as a great win for him, Lol.

Definitive, is only lies to you.

 

[BowserJr]

Jones beat Chael when he was ranked, Fedor beat Chael when he wasn’t.

Hong Man Choi is in no fucking way a good win for Fedor, he didn’t do shit in MMA, zip nada.

MMA GOAT is your premise & you add Choi as a great win for him, Lol.

Definitive, is only lies to you.

Now you're doubling down while explicitly contradicting yourself

 

[volcom5]

Now you're doubling down while explicitly contradicting yourself

That’s what I thought, deflecting again like you always do.

Who did Hong Man Choi beat in MMA to be considered a top win in MMA?

Jones and Anderson beat Chael Sonnen when he was ranked.
Fedor Emelianenko beat Chael Sonnen he was not ranked.

But yet, you don’t put him in Jones resume.

 

[orca]

Shogun fought a few months after his 3RD knee surgery. His physical prime was literally a thing of the past.

Rampage had over 40 fights/camps before facing Jones. He had way too much wear n tear to be in his prime. Jones has looked average after just 27 fights.

Gane is a UFC 3 one dimensional fighter. Gus is not an ATG. Vitor was a middle weight coming in short notice, had 31 fights and 16yrs in. Definitely tons of wear n tear.

Santos and Smith are not ATG. He arguably lost 1 and the other is just LOL

Only 4 solid wins in that list

your dumb bro
jones beat them when they where 29-32 years of age in their physical prime

imagine a 34 year old prime jones vs 23 year old evans machida rampage glover and many more

do you think thats fair a physical prime 34 year old jones would be unfair


also theres stats out there that prime peak LHWs are 34-35 years of age
want me to post that sht?

islam is like 35 right now you dont call him past prime when he was 32 with alot of fights already and he fights in a lower weightclass

 

[orca]

average age of prime LHW champions 32 - 33 years old

kinda funny 23 year old green jones beat em
imagine 34 year old prime jones vs 23 year old kids.
now does facts care about your feelings or emotions? nope

 

[Logan M]

Demetrious Johnson is the GOAT and all other opinions are objectively wrong.

 

[BowserJr]

your dumb bro
jones beat them when they where 29-32 years of age in their physical prime

imagine a 34 year old prime jones vs 23 year old evans machida rampage glover and many more

do you think thats fair a physical prime 34 year old jones would be unfair


also theres stats out there that prime peak LHWs are 34-35 years of age
want me to post that sht?

islam is like 35 right now you dont call him past prime when he was 32 with alot of fights already and he fights in a lower weightclass

I already addressed this in OP.

Jones has looked like shit after 32 years old too. Got worked by injured mid tier Santos and mid tier Reyes. Couldn't finish even finish Smith who cant beat a home invader

 

[Preston broadus]

Hes not the goat for the same reason pete rose, Barry bonds, a-rod, mark McGuire, Jose canseco, and Roger Clemens aren't in the baseball hall of fame.

 

[BowserJr]

That’s what I thought, deflecting again like you always do.

Who did Hong Man Choi beat in MMA to be considered a top win in MMA?

Jones and Anderson beat Chael Sonnen when he was ranked.
Fedor Emelianenko beat Chael Sonnen he was not ranked.

But yet, you don’t put him in Jones resume.

Who said anything about Fedor v Chael?

No one. Again you have to rely on strawman

And no Chael was not a ranked LHW you dolt. At best he was #3 or 4 at MW. At the very least he'd have to be ranked #1 for it to matter being that its a smaller guy moving up.

and if you want to count him as a "name" cuz he technically beat Filho for the belt and only dodnt get it cuz Filho missed weight, I'll give you that but then you'd have e to count it on Fedors resume to unless you want to be a hypocrite with the exact same fighter... I wouldn't put it passed you. And I really DGAF cuz you the most disingenuous bad faith debater on sherdog.

As for Choi I already stated why Choi is in there which of course you ignore. The only deflection is your own cock into your own ass.

You contradict yourself just to have a cunt hair of an argument cuz you just love to engage with me. Each time I dunk on you ass and you just get more missed and deeper I get into your head.

To put it in the most basic terms possible. The equivalent of Fedor beating Choi would be Belal beating Vehoven.

I'll spell it out further since you dont have enough brain cells to process it.

Again Choi was K1 champ, outweighed Fedor by 50%(123lbs), 1.5 ft reach advantage, 14, 15 inch height advantage

Verhoven is Glory champ Would have roughly a 50% (100lb) weight advantage, 6 inch height advantage, 7 inch reach advantage.

So actually Rico would have less of an advantage with Belal than Choi did with Fedor. And yet no one in their right mind would say that Belal beating Rico would not impressive as fuck and a very significant win.


But go ahead double down while you imagine me 8 inches deep. Im already rent free in your head. It would be no surprise if you fantasize about me being inside you in other ways

 

[snugglecakes]

 

[BowserJr]

average age of prime LHW champions 32 - 33 years old

kinda funny 23 year old green jones beat em
imagine 34 year old prime jones vs 23 year old kids.
now does facts care about your feelings or emotions? nopeView attachment 1104893

So you refuse to address what I stated about this? LOL

This is basically an admission of defeat.

AGAIN your little stat doesn't mean shit.

If Jones fought DC when DC was 30 but he was missing a leg then obviously age does not matter. Are you seriously so brain dead you cant see that?

My guess is yes. You are that retarded cuz jones dick is so far up your ass its now your tongue.

I'll spell it out for you 1 more time

Shogun fought a few months after his 3RD knee surgery. His physical prime was literally a thing of the past.

Rampage had over 40 fights/camps before facing Jones. He had way too much wear n tear to be in his prime. Jones has looked average after just 27 fights.

Gane is a UFC 3 one dimensional fighter. Gus is not an ATG. Vitor was a middle weight coming in short notice, had 31 fights and 16yrs in. Definitely tons of wear n tear.

Santos and Smith are not ATG. He arguably lost 1 and the other is just LOL

That's just to name a few

Only 4 solid wins in that list.

But go ahead and ignore the facts that wear n tear is a major factor in performance. Ignore the fact that athletes pre and post i jury are worse post almost universally.

I jnow you cant handle these simple facts so Please insist that the only factor is age, that age is the end all be all determining factor in every single performance.

BTW I already also addressed that if you do disregard all of the facts you love to disregard then you have to compare other fighters on equal terms. In which case there are others with a better list of names... but again please ignore that and keep stroking your throat as a means to jerk off Jones

 

[Superzorro]

So basically combine every other GOATs resume, and then compare the totality of what they did versus Jones.

You can say GSP, Fedor, Silva, MM beat him out. But when you start saying that guys like Khabib are higher than him, you lose all credibility.

 

[orca]

So you refuse to address what I stated about this? LOL

This is basically an admission of defeat.

AGAIN your little stat doesn't mean shit.

If Jones fought DC when DC was 30 but he was missing a leg then obviously age does not matter. Are you seriously so brain dead you cant see that?

My guess is yes. You are that retarded cuz jones dick is so far up your ass its now your tongue.

I'll spell it out for you 1 more time

Shogun fought a few months after his 3RD knee surgery. His physical prime was literally a thing of the past.

Rampage had over 40 fights/camps before facing Jones. He had way too much wear n tear to be in his prime. Jones has looked average after just 27 fights.

Gane is a UFC 3 one dimensional fighter. Gus is not an ATG. Vitor was a middle weight coming in short notice, had 31 fights and 16yrs in. Definitely tons of wear n tear.

Santos and Smith are not ATG. He arguably lost 1 and the other is just LOL

That's just to name a few

Only 4 solid wins in that list.

But go ahead and ignore the facts that wear n tear is a major factor in performance. Ignore the fact that athletes pre and post i jury are worse post almost universally.

I jnow you cant handle these simple facts so Please insist that the only factor is age, that age is the end all be all determining factor in every single performance.

BTW I already also addressed that if you do disregard all of the facts you love to disregard then you have to compare other fighters on equal terms. In which case there are others with a better list of names... but again please ignore that and keep stroking your throat as a means to jerk off Jones

its not defeat ive posted facts about average age of LHWS prime
but then you ignore all of that

but then again how tf can you even fight past prime fighters for 16 years
lol is that even possible? all those fighters lining up just to beat him

 

[orca]

I already addressed this in OP.

Jones has looked like shit after 32 years old too. Got worked by injured mid tier Santos and mid tier Reyes. Couldn't finish even finish Smith who cant beat a home invader

he look like shit when he was 32? why isnt he losing then?
lol
you just cant accept the fact that he aint losing

what do you call guys like fedor who got strangled and ktfo?
even shittier i guess?

 

[orca]

Never ceases to amaze me how many of you think it’s worse to maybe possibly should’ve lost a 48-47 decision than guys who’ve been knocked the fuck out

yeah i mean its funny
so getting ktfo and strangled is better than fighting 48-47
we live in a world where guys like ts think thats better
unbelievable

ts doesnt even believes in records
he doesnt believe gsp and fedor got submitted and ktfo

 

[Luffy]

Well, he's back. He's going to fight either Tom or Alex. I think it's gonna be Alex Pereira. Which imo is worse for Jones... Alex seems like the silent killer of UFC whether ppl like it or not.