Dana White responds to report claiming Liz Carmouche only making 12k/12k for UFC 157

[EliteLurker]

Why do we have to go through this every time pay comes out. We all know the UFC does backroom bonuses all the time. We have no clue what most fighters are making.

 

[Jmarc]

The number is low but just getting on the first woman's fight for title even and still getting a chance at 24 grand that's not bad for woman's fight. Though Strikeforce did pay Marloes Coenen quite a bit more in the losing effort with Tate. This is the famous check that was to respond to reports about her pay. She got in deep trouble with Zuffa over this act.

Check this out for info regarding Marloes pay:

http://www.fighters.com/03/08/feija...ies-is-strikeforce-mistreating-marloes-coenen

Marloes Coenen: $10,000 (no win bonus) defeated Liz Carmouche: $5,000

 

[johnsq316]

LMAO at people thinking paying prelim fighters 60 -120k a year would cripple a BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS.
Paying dudes that much along with paying the star still leaves UFC with millions of dollars of profit per PPV event.
About half the dudes would be receiving either 20k or 40k depending if they win. If there are 12 fights on a card, that's 240k IF THEY ALL WIN, which of course won't happen.
Get fucking real, UFC can afford that.

If you think the UFC makes "millions of dollars of profit" on every PPV event, I probably can't help you, but read my response a few pages back about the difference between market value, annual revenue, gross and net profit. It might help.

 

[Jmarc]

LMAO at people thinking paying prelim fighters 60 -120k a year would cripple a BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS.
Paying dudes that much along with paying the star still leaves UFC with millions of dollars of profit per PPV event.
About half the dudes would be receiving either 20k or 40k depending if they win. If there are 12 fights on a card, that's 240k IF THEY ALL WIN, which of course won't happen.
Get fucking real, UFC can afford that.

LMAO at you thinking you even know what a BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS means.

Please, go on and tell me how much profit the UFC makes per event. While you are at it, let me know how the agreement with the Shiek works. Does he have a minimum earnings per event clause? You seem to be the man with the answers, since you know the UFC would make "millions of dollars of profit per PPV event", so enlighten us a little more.

Lets give you an easy one, how much total revenue does the UFC make per event?

 

[gillygilly**]

It isn't that we would have to pay $100 a PPV. It is that the UFC would have to cut jobs, put on less events, and stop expanding their brand. That is why all of this salary bull crap doesn't make any sense to people who understand finances.

Sure, the UFC can afford to pay the fighters $100k per fight minimum, but they are only going to be putting on 6 fights a night, and only put on 1 event every 2 months, and they are going to cut everyone who isn't an absolute superstar stud.

The UFC employs a lot of guy who begged for the opportunity to get in to the octagon, who they wouldn't otherwise employ if they had to pay $20,000 per fight.

The UFC is able to take "gambles" like introducing the 125lb division and bringing women in to the UFC because of their low fighter base pay.

More people are getting world wide exposure and opportunities that they wouldn't otherwise get. The UFC is the only game in town that can make an MMA fighter a household name over night right now. Believe me, fighter pay isn't an issue. People are just UFC haters.

those are great points. In a way, the more the lowest rung fighters are paid, the less mma (put on by the ufc) we get to enjoy, as fans. From this perspective we should be complaining that certain fighters get paid too much :icon_lol:

 

[Jmarc]

Do you see the logic behind comparing a regular job to a championship in professional sports, that millions watch, and something called PRESTIGE is supposed to be present?

You are clearly just a UFC (and most likely a Dana White) hater, but base fighter pay has nothing to do with prestige in reality. The only people who think this hurts the "prestige" of the UFC, are ignorant haters who don't understand reality.

The UFC pays far more on average than any other MMA fight organization. They do this while at the same time employing much more people, having better benefits, and growing the company at a rate that most people do not truly comprehend.

You guys are just pulling numbers out of your asses, and demanding the UFC pay that to their fighters. This goes against any rules of business, economics, and common sense.

The UFC is doing exactly what they need to do in order to be successful in their business model. They offer the most they need to, in order to get the best performing fighters. It isn't like the UFC is giving them tons of extra duties to perform that other organizations don't require from them. The job is the exact same. You step in a cage, and you fight. Strikeforce offered like 2k/2k for their fighters base contracts, and the UFC offers significantly more, and you guys complain. It doesn't make sense.

 

[JonesBones]

I think the lowest level fighter in the UFC should make 20 grand just to show.

Mark Hunt gets only 6 k to show. Some maybe less.

 

[johnsq316]

You are clearly just a UFC (and most likely a Dana White) hater, but base fighter pay has nothing to do with prestige in reality. The only people who think this hurts the "prestige" of the UFC, are ignorant haters who don't understand reality.

The UFC pays far more on average than any other MMA fight organization. They do this while at the same time employing much more people, having better benefits, and growing the company at a rate that most people do not truly comprehend.

You guys are just pulling numbers out of your asses, and demanding the UFC pay that to their fighters. This goes against any rules of business, economics, and common sense.

The UFC is doing exactly what they need to do in order to be successful in their business model. They offer the most they need to, in order to get the best performing fighters. It isn't like the UFC is giving them tons of extra duties to perform that other organizations don't require from them. The job is the exact same. You step in a cage, and you fight. Strikeforce offered like 2k/2k for their fighters base contracts, and the UFC offers significantly more, and you guys complain. It doesn't make sense.

I want to do some cross-referencing in a few hours and see how many people are simultaneously bitching about Liz "only" getting $12k and Alvarez getting offered $75k as "disrespectful to Bendo."

On second thought no I don't. It'll just make me weep for the economic illiteracy in this country.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I love the UFC, like Dana White a lot, this isn't based out of hate. I love the fighters too, and some of them don't make shit. That's crazy with what the UFC is making these days. 6k ain't shit.

Also, it's absurd for people to pretend that bumping up the base pay to 20k would somehow cripple the UFC or force them to raise PPV prices. We're talking about a 14k increase, for only the cheapest paid fighters. That's chicken scratch to Zuffa.

 

[Jmarc]

those are great points. In a way, the more the lowest rung fighters are paid, the less mma (put on by the ufc) we get to enjoy, as fans. From this perspective we should be complaining that certain fighters get paid too much :icon_lol:

Well, yeah. See, imagine if the UFC signs a 24k base contract with Liz Carmouche. Then imagine she loses, has a 3 fight contract, and her next fight is deadly boring. The UFC doesn't want to cut her, because the division is so thin already, and it is only 1 more fight anyways.

So now, they are stuck paying her another 24k because of her contract, and the UFC has to give her a fight, taking an opportunity away from another deserving fighter who would have been happy to put everything he has on the line for $8k on the undercard.

It costs money to go out and find the best talent. The UFC doesn't WANT to cut people just because they have a bad fight, so they can get themselves in situations where they are paying people more than they are really worth very easily. A fighter is only worth as much as a comparable fighter is willing to fight for.

We can get boring fighters to line up all day to fight for 6k, so until a fighter proves himself to be better than a boring fighter, 6k it is. Same goes for losing fighters. Listen, if you want a guy to hop on the undercard and lose, you give me $20 and I am there. Until you can prove you are a winner, 6k it is.

The way the UFC does business not only gives us MORE MMA action than we would otherwise see, but it gives us BETTER and MORE EXCITING MMA than we would otherwise see. Fighters have an incentive to not only win, but win impressively so they can have more negotiating power for their contracts.

If we started guys at $20k salaries, they have very little incentive to put on exciting fights. They are better off putting on the most boring, and safest fight possible, because at 20k/20k, fighting 3 times a year, they are making over 100k a year easily. They don't NEED to be exciting. 20k base pays would absolutely destroy the undercards, which would affect the buy rates for PPVs and total viewership for free network events.

It is just a terrible idea to pay fighters more than they are worth.

 

[johnsq316]

I love the UFC, like Dana White a lot, this isn't based out of hate. I love the fighters too, and some of them don't make shit. That's crazy with what the UFC is making these days. 6k ain't shit.

Also, it's absurd for people to pretend that bumping up the base pay to 20k would somehow cripple the UFC or force them to raise PPV prices. We're talking about a 14k increase, for only the cheapest paid fighters. That's chicken scratch to Zuffa.

I get your point, but it isn't about what's fair.

Most of the guys making $6-10k are the curtain jerkers working the facebook prelims. A lot of them are on one fight deals, especially when they go to a foreign or new market and they just sign a couple local guys. They have no value to Zuffa other than to put on a good show and warm up the crowd. They are highly replaceable - almost any two random fighters from the local promotion are just as likely to put on a good show.

And that's the ultimate point - you're only worth what the next guy up who is comparable would take. GSP is worth millions - there is no next guy up. Eddie Alvarez is worth $700k-$1m a year give or take ($250k + $150k per fight + points), which means Bendo will be worth similar when his deal is up.

Matt Brown is worth $20k. He's proven to be better at the crowd warming up, PPV selling job than most, but ultimately he's not much more than that.

 

[Basindo]

I'm guessing that's probably just the official payout.

Remember when Uncle Creepy got 8k for his main event in his 2nd UFC fight? But then both Dana and himself on twitter cleared it up and said he made way more than that.

This is not just the reported payout and then if they get a "of the night" bonus or not guys. There has been many examples and I'm extremely positive that most fighters are getting at least a little more than their reported payout.

 

[Jmarc]

I love the UFC, like Dana White a lot, this isn't based out of hate. I love the fighters too, and some of them don't make shit. That's crazy with what the UFC is making these days. 6k ain't shit.

Also, it's absurd for people to pretend that bumping up the base pay to 20k would somehow cripple the UFC or force them to raise PPV prices. We're talking about a 14k increase, for only the cheapest paid fighters. That's chicken scratch to Zuffa.

How much does the next biggest MMA organization offer their fighters? Ignoring all the extra benefits being a UFC fighter has, and ignoring the fact that no other organization could support a roster as big as the UFC, just give me some numbers of what an undercard fighter makes for some other organizations. Then we can discuss the craziness of it.

Again, since you believe a $14,000 increase is nothing to the UFC, please give us some insight in to their finances. Just let us know simple things, so we can get an idea where you are getting your numbers from. How much total revenue does the UFC make per event? How much does the UFC give the cable companies for their cut of the PPV? How much is the Zuffa monthly payroll?

Here is an easy one for you:
Ignoring their base pay , and ignoring all bonuses, how much does it cost the UFC on average for a fighter to fight? Pretty simple question. The UFC doesn't just go "here is $6k, fight please." There has to be other costs, so how much does it cost the UFC for a fighter to fight, on average.

 

[akproplayer]

Dana should get a Sherdog account.

You think he doesn't have one? :icon_lol:

 

[Magooglie]

I wonder how the UFC will promote Liz headlining a UFC card lol. They would probably put her on Fuel Tv card

"And in the red corner . . . soon to be a master of tapping out, the first woman ever to be armbarred in the UFC . . . LIZ CARMOUCHE!!!!!"

That's how Dana is going to tell Buffer to announce her.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I get your point, but it isn't about what's fair.

In all fairness, that's the point.

Most of the guys making $6-10k are the curtain jerkers working the facebook prelims. A lot of them are on one fight deals, especially when they go to a foreign or new market and they just sign a couple local guys. They have no value to Zuffa other than to put on a good show and warm up the crowd. They are highly replaceable - almost any two random fighters from the local promotion are just as likely to put on a good show.

Fine, pay them 20k anyway. This ain't Bellator. Spread the wealth.

And that's the ultimate point - you're only worth what the next guy up who is comparable would take. GSP is worth millions - there is no next guy up. Eddie Alvarez is worth $700k-$1m a year give or take ($250k + $150k per fight + points), which means Bendo will be worth similar when his deal is up.

None of the guys making that much are my concern at the moment. I just feel for the 6k guys.

Matt Brown is worth $20k. He's proven to be better at the crowd warming up, PPV selling job than most, but ultimately he's not much more than that.

I would say Matt Brown is more than that. He's been in a lot of UFC fights that have been really entertaining to the fans.

 

[Jmarc]

I'm guessing that's probably just the official payout.

The amounts released publicly are just base pay as per their contract terms. This means, that is the minimum amount they will be paid per fight. In reality, it is highly irrelevant to what a main event fighter will actually earn for their fight.

It is like with a waitress at a restaurant. In the USA, most serving staff are allowed to be paid like $2.75/hour or whatever. This is because the USA has a tipping culture, where it is expected the waitress will receive other money during her night to earn up to or more than the regular minimum wage. No waitress actually walks home only making $2.75 per hour, but that is what her guaranteed wage is.

Consider that Liz is going to be getting a multiple fight contract, and the UFC doesn't want to pay her a guaranteed wage of $30k or something for this 1 title fight, which she will probably lose. Then they have to pay her $30k for all her other fights too until her contract is up. Other fighters wouldn't appreciate that very much.

 

[Peteyandjia]

How much does the next biggest MMA organization offer their fighters? Ignoring all the extra benefits being a UFC fighter has, and ignoring the fact that no other organization could support a roster as big as the UFC, just give me some numbers of what an undercard fighter makes for some other organizations. Then we can discuss the craziness of it.

Again, since you believe a $14,000 increase is nothing to the UFC, please give us some insight in to their finances. Just let us know simple things, so we can get an idea where you are getting your numbers from. How much total revenue does the UFC make per event? How much does the UFC give the cable companies for their cut of the PPV? How much is the Zuffa monthly payroll?

Here is an easy one for you:
Ignoring their base pay , and ignoring all bonuses, how much does it cost the UFC on average for a fighter to fight? Pretty simple question. The UFC doesn't just go "here is $6k, fight please." There has to be other costs, so how much does it cost the UFC for a fighter to fight, on average.

You and I probably have about the same level of access to the UFC's books.

 

[johnsq316]

In all fairness, that's the point.



Fine, pay them 20k anyway. This ain't Bellator. Spread the wealth.



None of the guys making that much are my concern at the moment. I just feel for the 6k guys.



I would say Matt Brown is more than that. He's been in a lot of UFC fights that have been really entertaining to the fans.

Cool thing about free market salaries: they are ultimately 100% fair. You are worth the deal you can negotiate for yourself (or hire someone to negotiate for you).

Don't like the $6k? Go the Eddie Alvarez route and win a bunch of exciting fights in other organizations. The next offer will be higher.

Or take the $6k and try to prove yourself. It's your choice, no gun to your head here.

 

[Clubfingers]

They aren't exactly private contracts when how much fighters are paid is required to be publicly disclosed by athletic commissions. Pro tip: California is a state where fighter pay is required to be publicly disclosed.

The only portion that is disclosed is the base that the AC verifies is available and/or holds, prior to the fights. The only reason that it's disclosed is because the AC's are a government office.

There's a number of reasons why a promoter wouldn't want that to be the full amount of pay. Most importantly, why put up all the money before a show even happens, when you have no idea how much you will make off the show, and can easily work around it? More money in base doesn't necessarily mean the fighters are making any more, it just means the promoter has to dish out more before the show happens.