Dana White responds to report claiming Liz Carmouche only making 12k/12k for UFC 157

[wisdom blows]

Where are you coming up with these numbers? Are you trolling us?

So if your boss comes to you and says "Hey listen, we want to double your salary, and you will just be doing the exact same job as you currently do, but we are going to give you a gold belt to wear when you walk in to work every day." You will decline his offer, because you see no point?

Do you not see how ridiculous that logic is?

Do you see the logic behind comparing a regular job to a championship in professional sports, that millions watch, and something called PRESTIGE is supposed to be present?

Yeah, I don't either.

Then again, the UFC is the laughing stock of the sports world, so its par for the course to pay your number 1 ranked world champion 70 thousand dollars for a championship match. :icon_lol:

 

[Jmarc]

I don't disagree but I'm not willing to pay 100 bucks for a ppv.

It isn't that we would have to pay $100 a PPV. It is that the UFC would have to cut jobs, put on less events, and stop expanding their brand. That is why all of this salary bull crap doesn't make any sense to people who understand finances.

Sure, the UFC can afford to pay the fighters $100k per fight minimum, but they are only going to be putting on 6 fights a night, and only put on 1 event every 2 months, and they are going to cut everyone who isn't an absolute superstar stud.

The UFC employs a lot of guy who begged for the opportunity to get in to the octagon, who they wouldn't otherwise employ if they had to pay $20,000 per fight.

The UFC is able to take "gambles" like introducing the 125lb division and bringing women in to the UFC because of their low fighter base pay.

More people are getting world wide exposure and opportunities that they wouldn't otherwise get. The UFC is the only game in town that can make an MMA fighter a household name over night right now. Believe me, fighter pay isn't an issue. People are just UFC haters.

 

[PRIDExxFC]

I think the lowest level fighter in the UFC should make 20 grand just to show.

Agreed, If they get hurt they won't be able to fight for a while.

 

[papajohns]

That's probably what's on her contract. But Dana is disputing it because fight bonuses haven't been calculated. They almost always get another check that probably doubles what's being reported.

 

[dropshot001]

If she does all the press and makes it a good fight, i am sure they will take care of her. You guys all scoff at the locker room bonuses but fighters have confirmed they are real and can be very lucrative.. She could make 24 grand before any sponsor money or potential bonus money from the UFC.. That's not bad..

this talk about locker room bonuses is a good way for posters to defend these incredulously low figures for fighters. the only people who speak out about these bonuses are those who receive them. the others have an incentive to be quiet so that they don't get "blacklisted" by the ufc. this is the only reason why almost all fighters who have come out publicly to speak about pay (and who are currently fighting) are discussing the good things about the pay system and these so called bonuses. those who aren't getting the bonuses have been backed into a corner to the point where it is not financially feasible for them to speak out.

 

[johnsq316]

no it wouldnt. the UFC is a billion dollar company.. they could afford to pay out an extra few million a year to make sure their fighters dont have to work second jobs. you work a second job, your training suffers. your training suffers, you arent as good. if you arent as good, well, then, the UFC no longer has the best fighters available. it's in their best interest to pay their fighters a living wage.

$1 billion estimated market value (this is how much they could in theory sell the company for, if they wanted to and there was a buyer. has nothing to do with amount of money in their pockets).

Several hundred million annual revenue (revenue is gross, before all expenses are deducted).

Probably 20ish% profit margins, maybe less (also known as Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, or EBITDA).

8-10% net profit (that's how much money you make, unless they are reinvesting it in things like, say, global expansion).

That business class is free, it's clear you've never taken one.

 

[darthbotox**]

I think the lowest level fighter in the UFC should make 20 grand just to show.

even cody mckenzie ?

 

[johnsq316]

It isn't that we would have to pay $100 a PPV. It is that the UFC would have to cut jobs, put on less events, and stop expanding their brand. That is why all of this salary bull crap doesn't make any sense to people who understand finances.

Sure, the UFC can afford to pay the fighters $100k per fight minimum, but they are only going to be putting on 6 fights a night, and only put on 1 event every 2 months, and they are going to cut everyone who isn't an absolute superstar stud.

The UFC employs a lot of guy who begged for the opportunity to get in to the octagon, who they wouldn't otherwise employ if they had to pay $20,000 per fight.

The UFC is able to take "gambles" like introducing the 125lb division and bringing women in to the UFC because of their low fighter base pay.

More people are getting world wide exposure and opportunities that they wouldn't otherwise get. The UFC is the only game in town that can make an MMA fighter a household name over night right now. Believe me, fighter pay isn't an issue. People are just UFC haters.

This person is smart. More people should listen to him.

 

[Jmarc]

They aren't exactly private contracts when how much fighters are paid is required to be publicly disclosed by athletic commissions. Pro tip: California is a state where fighter pay is required to be publicly disclosed.

And yes, for someone who CONSTANTLY goes on about how well he takes care of his fighters, who faces TONS of criticism about fighter pay, who constantly alludes to locker room bonuses, but never actually details them, it would be an easy opportunity for him to actually back it up.

The amount that needs to be disclosed is only the base pay. Bonuses don't need to be disclosed, and Dana hands out bonuses like they are going out of style. Anyone who thinks Liz wouldn't get a bonus for headlining the event is just naive. Dana may even be waiting to watch how the fight unfolds before he makes the decision of how much extra to give her.

The actual details of the contracts are always private, and have only been revealed like 2 times in the history of the UFC. It is NOT an easy opportunity. Does your boss where you work (assuming you work) just go around telling everyone how much you all get paid? The contracts are negotiated. Some people are crappy at negotiating, and have crappy contracts. Some people are pros at negotiating, and have comparatively much better contracts.

This is how sports works.

I was given a $0.05 per hour raise at my last job at the discretion of my manager, and was made to sign a mountain of paperwork, including an agreement not to disclose the raise to any co-workers because I was the only one out of 500 employees who was offered it. He told me over and over, "You can not tell anyone about this. I can't stress this enough." These things are a big deal.

 

[wisdom blows]

$1 billion estimated market value (this is how much they could in theory sell the company for, if they wanted to and there was a buyer. has nothing to do with amount of money in their pockets).

Several hundred million annual revenue (revenue is gross, before all expenses are deducted).

Probably 20ish% profit margins, maybe less (also known as Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, or EBITDA).

8-10% net profit (that's how much money you make, unless they are reinvesting it in things like, say, global expansion).

That business class is free, it's clear you've never taken one.

lol, meanwhile you're using words like "probably" as dana buys 5 more ferrari's and world title challengers have second jobs to pay their training partners.

piss off, professor.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Why?

So that fighters get paid more.

Where do you come up with this figure?

My ass. I'm not claiming to know the logistics of the UFC's bankroll, and what they could pay - and neither should you. I just want to see the fighters get paid more.

Are you talking about 20 grand just from the UFC, or total income from a fight?

20k to show.

Would you be OK with the UFC laying off half their employees, and cutting back on total number of shows per year, and keeping the UFC in North America only in order to pay this 20 grand minimum?

No, and I doubt that would be necessary to pay fighters a 20k minimum. But again, I know as much about their bottom line as you do.

Why pay more than the going rate? It doesn't make sense.

Because they are the biggest MMA organization in the world, for starters. To the extent of practically being a monopoly at this point. No problem with that, but they can afford to pay their fighters more now. It's only a matter of how much more.

Do you walk in to restaurants and ask why they don't pay your servers more money?

Do you walk into the back room at restaurants and tell the workers to stop trying to figure out how to get raises?

 

[PEB]

The number is low but just getting on the first woman's fight for title even and still getting a chance at 24 grand that's not bad for woman's fight. Though Strikeforce did pay Marloes Coenen quite a bit more in the losing effort with Tate. This is the famous check that was to respond to reports about her pay. She got in deep trouble with Zuffa over this act.

 

[Wanna Bet]

I'm all for better fighter pay but Carmouche hasn't earned shit. If she isn't on the card the PPV will not lose one buy. She has zero leverage and therefore should be grateful she gets what she gets.

Pretty much this. If she doesn't like it, she'd be offered pennies on the dollar elsewhere.

You could swap out Liz for virtually any female mixed martial artist and there would be no difference in pay-per-view buys, if not more buys with a bigger name like Miesha Tate or Cyborg. She is being brought in as a nameless pawn to get armbarred. She's there to build up Ronda in the UFC for bigger paydays down the road.

I bet she's the first UFC fighter in line for a bigger lose bonus than win bonus.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Agreed. When you see the published purses of lower-tier fighters who lost their fight and only made $6K, it makes you wonder how they have anything left over after paying their corners and sparring partners.

Exactly. 6k ain't shit, making it to the UFC should be prestigious to a fighter's bank account, not just their Wikipedia page. And don't give me that shit about "well they gotta earn it", that's how they got there in the first place. After that, sure, they win or get cut like anyone else. But if the UFC is the big show, pay bigger money than 6k.

 

[Rollermanskunk]

Only 5000 tickets sold for this event http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/1/2/3828588/ronda-rousey-isnt-a-box-office-knockout-for-ufc-157-tickets

Maybe Dana is already cutting the salaries? Seriously, 12k is really ridiculous, she can hardly pay her camp with this peanuts pay

 

[johnsq316]

lol, meanwhile you're using words like "probably" as dana buys 5 more ferrari's and world title challengers have second jobs to pay their training partners.

piss off, professor.

That's an excellent way to respond without actually arguing anything coherent.

Is Dana making a ton of money? Heck yeah. Senior executives of billion dollar companies with multi-million dollar annual revenue streams aren't generally living check to check.

You know how companies don't become billion dollar companies? By paying people more than they are worth. Liz Carmouche has value to the UFC. They needed someone who was a semi-credible challenger to Ronda. But her value is extremely limited, because she's highly replaceable. As in, despite the promotional statements to the contrary, there are 20 women fighting for Invicta right now who would take $12k in a heartbeat for a chance to fight Ronda in a UFC main event. The exposure alone is worth $12k, even if you get tapped in 90 seconds.

Same is true with your "title challenger working two jobs to pay a second training partner." BTW -can you name that fighter? Because I don't believe you and think you are making it up. It's rare to find a novelty like Shane Carwin, who the UFC made a point of talking about on PPVs how he is the rare UFC fighter who still has a full-time job.

 

[Peteyandjia]

even cody mckenzie ?

I would pay him 20k just to magically have the ability to McKenzitine anyone.

 

[Jmarc]

That business class is free, it's clear you've never taken one.

Hilarious that the guys name is "wisdom blows" haha.

Guys, Dana White doesn't have a Billion Dollars in his bank account to pay fighters with. I know you all hate him, and he is a wealthy guy who makes more money annual than most of the fighters will see in their career, but this is a business, not Dana Whites private puppet show where he forces people to dance for his entertainment.

Unless you know the costs of doing business for the UFC, you can't even begin to speculate on what a "fair" amount for them to get paid is. The only thing you can do, is look at what other organizations are paying MMA fighters as a comparison. But here is where you guys are all getting it wrong.

The haters think the UFC should pay their fighters MORE than other MMA organizations, because the UFC is a more successful company. But that doesn't make sense in reality, because the fighters are already getting: Better benefits, higher bonus opportunities, more exposure, higher sponsorship pay, more alternative income opportunities (trade shows, tuf coaching, other events), higher potential to advance their career etc.

The value of being employed by the UFC is so much higher than the value of the next best game in town, that there is no reason that the UFC should be increasing fighter pay much more than them. If you guys can't understand that concept, then there isn't much more anyone can do for you.

 

[CorkscrewPunch]

Why? It should not be any concern of ANYONE on this forum how much fighters get paid by the UFC (unless they are also UFC fighters).

Should I be able to call your employer up an ask them how much bank you make? Of course not. Only you and your employer (and the IRS, etc) have any business knowing that.

I would be pissed as fuck if my employer published my salary. Part of why I got out of Federal employment (I have no desire for my salary to be open to anyone who requests it). That and the fact that I make over three times as much in the private sector now.

You actually oppose the Muhammed Ali Act? Are you related to Don King?

 

[RenoBJJr]

LMAO at people thinking paying prelim fighters 60 -120k a year would cripple a BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS.
Paying dudes that much along with paying the star still leaves UFC with millions of dollars of profit per PPV event.
About half the dudes would be receiving either 20k or 40k depending if they win. If there are 12 fights on a card, that's 240k IF THEY ALL WIN, which of course won't happen.
Get fucking real, UFC can afford that.