Dana White responds to report claiming Liz Carmouche only making 12k/12k for UFC 157
- Thread starter ElTorro**
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Several fighters have already confirmed it. Hell Randy Couture got a million dollar bonus just for signing with the UFC. That was years ago.
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The UFC operates on a pay for performance model. A new, unknown and unproven guy will not be paid some guaranteed high amount because he is unlikely to draw money. The UFC is willing to risk more on a guy who has a track record and fan base.
The purpose is to control risk and encourage performance both inside and outside the cage. There is no guarantee that a particular show will be profitable to a certain level, so the UFC cannot guarantee big contracts up front. Furthermore the UFC uses undisclosed bonuses to reward a spectacular showing and efforts on the part of the fighter to generate interest in the fight.
The purpose is to control risk and encourage performance both inside and outside the cage. There is no guarantee that a particular show will be profitable to a certain level, so the UFC cannot guarantee big contracts up front. Furthermore the UFC uses undisclosed bonuses to reward a spectacular showing and efforts on the part of the fighter to generate interest in the fight.
This is just illogical and based on nothing but your personal feelings. There is no reason to pay the lowest level guys 20k per fight. There are just as many comparable people who will fight for less money. It is a bad business decision, and doesn't help anyone in the long run.
If you pay people more than they are actually worth, you are going to have long term problems that hurt more people than it helps. Even as a private company, the UFC has to be responsible for their money and how they spend it. Offering 10x the going rate for an entry level fighter is just irresponsible, and the UFC would be less successful if they adopted that type of business model.
The UFC isn't just sitting on their profits like scrooge mcduck. They are re-investing it back in to the company. Listen, it is really difficult to argue with you guys like this, because you are just basing decisions on your emotions, with no real logic being used.
I want to say it again:
If you pay the fighters more money, the UFC will employ less people. Maybe not immediately, but in the long run, less people will earn a living doing MMA if you pay the fighters higher base pay.
You are saying you would rather LESS people to be employed for a higher wage, because you think that is the "fair" thing to do. The "fair" thing to do in your opinion, is force less people to be able to earn a living working for the UFC.
That doesn't make sense to me.
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Lol. Okay Mitt.
I want to quote this so people read it. It is so important to understand.
Just because the base pay is higher, doesn't mean fighters are any better off.
And in fact, more fighters will be worse off if the base pay is higher, because less of them will get contracts with the UFC, and they will have to be more proven before the UFC is going to put out a guaranteed minimum of $20k for them for each fight.
And it is also likely the fans will be worse off as well. The UFC will undoubtedly hire fighters who are so happy with the 20k contract, they will never want to take any risks of losing. They will fight safer, and probably have more boring fights just to keep their contracts.
This is why paying the lowest the "free market" allows, with huge options for improvement based on performance, are the best option for MMA fighter on the whole. Those who are truly worth more money, will get more money, because the UFC doesn't want to lose them to any other organization.
Indeed, it really is the same argument against the minimum wage.
People say "we need a minimum wage so that people can earn a living." What a minimum wage really does is cause employers not to hire people who don't provide at least a minimum wage worth of value to the company.
For instance, if the minimum wage was $10/hr, would Target hire more or fewer cashiers? They would lay off cashiers and put in automatic checkers with one cashier for every 4 to make sure you don't steal.
If the fighter "minimum wage" was $20k per fight, the UFC would take fewer risks on intermediate prospects who probably aren't worth $20k.
I don't expect you to like reality, but it'd be nice if people acknowledged it once in a while.
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Insightful comments like this lead one to believe you are often lacking 'better words'.
A lot UFC fighters get paid more than me and I manage a $40m service portfolio for a multinational group of companies.
Remind me to have this discussion with our CEO tomorrow about how underpaid I am.
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I disagree, they are professionals, and it's the UFC.
We disagree, and we can leave it at that instead of pretending like either of us are experts.
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When you say 'the world', what you are referring to is merely the money on it, and it works by the will of humans.
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We talking quantum physics now? Wrong thread my man.
This whole post was right, but this is the part that stuck out to me. People think every UFC event is guaranteed to make millions of dollars in profit for the company, because they only look at the costs we can see.
PPV + Gate - Fighter Salaries = $$,$$$,$$$ into Dana Whites pocket. That is what a lot of people genuinely think about the UFC as a business. They don't consider that it probably costs the UFC $20,000 per fighter just to get them to the show, with all the paper work, insurance, incidentals, hotel, flight, etc. It could be a lot more, or a lot less, but its just the point that the UFC has so many costs that we know nothing about.
The UFC takes HUGE risks everytime they put on an event. They have a great business model, so even if they do lose money on an event, like happened with the cancelled event last year, they are still in good shape, but they still have to be very careful with their money.
Translation:
I don't have a rational economic argument for what I believe, but I still believe it in spite of any facts you might present to the contrary.
It makes me feel good to think that fighters should be paid more. Lets stop talking about this, all your logic and facts are making me uncomfortable with my beliefs, but I don't know how to argue with you.
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I don't need anyone speaking for me, nor would I do you the discourtesy.
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I'd agree that every fighter should make a minimum 20/20K to show in the UFC. It is not just about that fight that is broadcast. It is also the fight being re-run on Fuel, shown on highlight shows, shown again promoting other fights.
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Lol. Okay Mitt.
I say Mitt because unbeknownst it to you, the model you are campaigning would require a reduction in the number of fighters due to higher value contracts at the cost of reduced expansion and therefore bleaker future of economic opportunities to increase the roster.
In other words, concentrating the wealth to a smaller group, somewhat more Republican in its approach, no?
So regardless of all other factors, the UFC should pay its fighters $20k minimum. That is a recipe for disaster. Just ask Tom Atencio. You can't base fighter pay off of the fact that they are professional athletes alone. You need to base it on other factors.
If you just pick a random number, and say "that is what they deserve, so that is what we will pay" you will not be successful. That is the bottom line. Pay has to be based on value to the company, and when you want to pay 10x what the going rate is for a comparable fighter, you have exceeded the value too far to ever be justifiable to the company.
Why does the UFC have to pay so much more than their true value, but other organizations are allowed to pay less? Are fighters only professionals when they get in the UFC?
That is the problem with arguing with mods. You guys get that "edit" button as well as the "dubs" button.
I suppose I better fall in line or you might exercise your power further.
