Elections Conservatives: Are You Mad At Jo Jorgenson Voters?

[Fawlty]

Florida exit polling revealed that had Nader not been on the ballot, a significant percentage of those who voted for him would have either a) not cast a vote in the election or b) voted for a candidate other than Gore.

In fact, had Nader not run, Bush would have won by more in Florida. CNN’s exit poll showed Bush at 49 percent and Gore at 47 percent, with 2 percent not voting in a hypothetical Nader-less Florida race.

If you really want to blame some group of voters for Gore's loss in Florida then blame the third of a million registered democrats who voted for George Bush.

Not very convincing, since we have the actual vote tallies showing how close it was. And the exit polling you're referencing (you're leaning super hard on one poll, and an exit poll at that - weaksauce) would put it within the MoE anyway.

 

[Scheme]

Not at all, hopefully the libertarians get more votes in the future and become a competitive party.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

As a leftist who got shit on here, in my real life, and on social media for not voting Hillary and (to a lesser extent this year) Biden, even as I live in a comfortably blue state.

Are conservatives equally pissed about people who voted libertarian? Contrary to the hate I got about "giving votes to Trump", Jo Jorgensen "stole" votes from Trump, in a BIG way.

At the moment, Biden leads Georgia by ~7k votes. In Georgia, Jo Jorgensen has 61k votes, almost all of which would have gone to Trump had the Libertarian Party not run.

In Arizona, Biden currently leads by 30k votes, and Jorgensen is up to 47k.

In Wisconsin, Biden is leading by 20k votes, and Jorgensen is up to 38k.

In Pennsylvania, Biden is leading by 29k votes, and Jorgensen is up to 77k.

In every close race across the country, Jorgensen has a vote count that comfortably covers the margin of Biden's lead over Trump.

Are conservatives pissed about this? Anyone here vote for Jo Jorgensen?

I'm not a conservative, so if you don't mind, I'm going to go off on a related note. I was watching Joe Rogan's recent podcast with Steven Rinella. And at one point Joe starts going on about all of the left-wing policies he supports, such as M4A and UBI. He's turned into a pretty solid social democrat on policy. But then he says that he voted for Jo Jorgenson in California.

I get that he has reasons not to vote for Biden. It's a solid blue state, Biden is bad on policy, Biden has suffered a cognitive decline, etc. I get all that. But why would he then vote for a right-wing Libertarian who is unilaterally opposed to the progressive policies that Rogan supports? Is he somehow not aware of Howie Hawkins? Some kind of disconnect there...

 

[Hollywood Jack]

As a leftist who got shit on here, in my real life, and on social media for not voting Hillary and (to a lesser extent this year) Biden, even as I live in a comfortably blue state.

Are conservatives equally pissed about people who voted libertarian? Contrary to the hate I got about "giving votes to Trump", Jo Jorgensen "stole" votes from Trump, in a BIG way.

At the moment, Biden leads Georgia by ~7k votes. In Georgia, Jo Jorgensen has 61k votes, almost all of which would have gone to Trump had the Libertarian Party not run.

In Arizona, Biden currently leads by 30k votes, and Jorgensen is up to 47k.

In Wisconsin, Biden is leading by 20k votes, and Jorgensen is up to 38k.

In Pennsylvania, Biden is leading by 29k votes, and Jorgensen is up to 77k.

In every close race across the country, Jorgensen has a vote count that comfortably covers the margin of Biden's lead over Trump.

Are conservatives pissed about this? Anyone here vote for Jo Jorgensen?

Okay, I will say one other thing about this. And I do have some insight on this since I used to be a big-R Republican and a small-l libertarian. For better or worse, people just don't voter shame on the right. Republicans don't blame their base and talk down to their base and shame their base like Democrats do and the mainstream media does and it also crosses over to the actual left.

There isn't constant virtue signaling and language policing and all that. There isn't nearly as much cancel culture. It's unfortunate because the left lost a lot of people and some of them have come back, but a lot haven't. The left wins on policy but loses on a lot of cultural stuff, especially when it's presented in a SJW package.

 

[Jack V Savage]

In fact, had Nader not run, Bush would have won by more in Florida. CNN’s exit poll showed Bush at 49 percent and Gore at 47 percent, with 2 percent not voting in a hypothetical Nader-less Florida race.

You're overplaying your troll hand with this one, bud.

Obviously the point of Nader's campaign was to help Bush, and that was the clear impact. Congratulations, Ralph.

 

[Bojka]

I assume those people really didn't want to vote for either of the 2 main candidates.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Are conservatives pissed about this? Anyone here vote for Jo Jorgensen?

You're not understanding the argument. Why on Earth would a principled libertarian favor Trump over Biden? But environmentalists or socialists who care more about other people than their own ego would support Biden over Trump. So people point out that your narcissistic political participation style is hurting real people, even by your own standards. Just as Nader's vanity/spite campaign caused massive harm to the nation and the world (no Iraq war without Nader, we would have made much more environmental progress, etc.).

 

[Hollywood Jack]

I assume those people really didn't want to vote for either of the 2 main candidates.

The funny thing is that Trump's lawyers were arguing in court that people who wrote-in Mike Pence as President were actually intending to vote for the Trump-Pence ticket. That one got laughed out of court, fortunately.

 

[BEER]

You're not understanding the argument. Why on Earth would a principled libertarian favor Trump over Biden? But environmentalists or socialists who care more about other people than their own ego would support Biden over Trump. So people point out that your narcissistic political participation style is hurting real people, even by your own standards. Just as Nader's vanity/spite campaign caused massive harm to the nation and the world (no Iraq war without Nader, we would have made much more environmental progress, etc.).

Thanks for participating.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Thanks for participating.

So I guess your inability to admit your mistake here or even try to engage shows that you were trolling and not really interested in answering any questions.

 

[BEER]

So I guess your inability to admit your mistake here or even try to engage shows that you were trolling and not really interested in answering any questions.

I asked a question to conservatives. Not for you to continue your toothless trolling and telling me I have blood on my hands for not voting for a democrat in a state that is comfortably blue.

Go try to be a blowhard dick somewhere else, Jack.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I asked a question to conservatives. Not for you to continue your toothless trolling and telling me I have blood on my hands for not voting for a democrat in a state that is comfortably blue.

Go try to be a blowhard dick somewhere else, Jack.

I'm trolling because you started a thread completely misrepresenting an argument (people are "mad" at leftists who try to help Trump), and I pointed that fact out. Insulting people who point out your mistakes doesn't make you right. Changing your mind when you see you're wrong does.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Not very convincing, since we have the actual vote tallies showing how close it was. And the exit polling you're referencing (you're leaning super hard on one poll, and an exit poll at that - weaksauce) would put it within the MoE anyway.

My final contribution on the Nader topic. Been over it too many times here.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

Some people will always begin from what they want to be true and then refuse to engage with contrary data. Establishment dems are as susceptible as members of the Trump base to this unfortunate human motivation.

 

[BEER]

I'm trolling because you started a thread completely misrepresenting an argument (people are "mad" at leftists who try to help Trump), and I pointed that fact out. Insulting people who point out your mistakes doesn't make you right. Changing your mind when you see you're wrong does.

I'm just curious if conservatives are mad.

I mean, I'm on twitter. I know they are. So I mean Sherdog conservatives in general.

Blow it out your ass, Jack. Go back to time out.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Not very convincing, since we have the actual vote tallies showing how close it was. And the exit polling you're referencing (you're leaning super hard on one poll, and an exit poll at that - weaksauce) would put it within the MoE anyway.

What's funny about this whole discussion is that Nader himself bragged about throwing it to Bush:

In the year 2000, exit polls reported that 25% of my voters would have voted for Bush, 38% would have voted for Gore and the rest would not have voted at all.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm just curious if conservatives are mad.

I mean, I'm on twitter. I know they are. So I mean Sherdog conservatives in general.

Blow it out your ass, Jack. Go back to time out.

Great discussion, as always. Anyone who disagrees with you or points out a mistake you make is an evil monster. Keeping protecting yourself from having to think. It's dangerous!

 

[Fawlty]

What's funny about this whole discussion is that Nader himself bragged about throwing it to Bush:

Pretty funny self own on a couple levels, and maybe not so funny on a couple others...

Also, I don't necessarily believe that 53% of voters who went Green would have stayed home.

 

[Fawlty]

My final contribution on the Nader topic. Been over it too many times here.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

Some people will always begin from what they want to be true and then refuse to engage with contrary data. Establishment dems are as susceptible as members of the Trump base to this unfortunate human motivation.

The best that article tries is to say that Green Party-favoring Independents wouldn't have voted Gore. They presuppose that. It's daft. Drop that ridiculous assumption and the article falls apart.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Pretty funny self own on a couple levels, and maybe not so funny on a couple others...

Also, I don't necessarily believe that 53% of voters who went Green would have stayed home.

Yeah, the numbers are obvious bullshit, but even taking them at face value, Nader flipped both NH and Florida. And what's more, he specifically campaigned in swing states because helping Bush was part of his goal, and he bragged about it afterward. Funny that he now has fans trying to contort to deny reality.

 

[ithinktheymad]

Voted Jorgenson in California.