Can The Avengers take down Superman?

[blaseblah]

Prep time is the worst plot armor ever created in comic books. Just accept that Superman traditionally can’t handle magic users unless the writers want him to.

So given the OP. No prep time. Street Fighter style. Thor and his magic hammer/axe along with the Hulk are more than enough for Superman. And I’m sure Stark has some tech to throw in there that would scan Superman’s need for solar energy, and make a plan accordingly.

If you're removing writer bullshit and it's just a pure fight with no restrictions, Superman kills them all in less then a second. He can move as fast as the Flash, they can't. Stark has no time to use any tech, he'd be dead.

 

[Strychnine]

Rick Sanchez by whatever he wants.

 

[Tiny]

If you're removing writer bullshit and it's just a pure fight with no restrictions, Superman kills them all in less then a second. He can move as fast as the Flash, they can't. Stark has no time to use any tech, he'd be dead.

Dr Strange would be frozen casting a spell...

 

[blaseblah]

Dr Strange would be frozen casting a spell...

Now in an actual comic Strange would fuck Superman up since he never uses his powers to their potential.

 

[Tiny]

Now in an actual comic Strange would fuck Superman up since he never uses his powers to their potential.

It's comical actually...the writers actually need to nerf superman every damn situation because it's fucking superman.

"let's only acknowledge his super speed during fun moments like a race with flash...."

In an actual comic, squirrel girl trumps supes...cause, you know...it would be funny...right?

 

[Mike]

It's comical actually...the writers actually need to nerf superman every damn situation because it's fucking superman.

"let's only acknowledge his super speed during fun moments like a race with flash...."

In an actual comic, squirrel girl trumps supes...cause, you know...it would be funny...right?

Yeah nearly 500 posts in and people don't seem to get that STILL. For.... some reason

 

[Mike]

In the movies when Spidey and company tried to pull the guantlet out of Thanos, were they even close to pulling that off before Quill got emo? Is it even possible to just remove the gauntlet off Thanos and would that have lowered his abilities for everyone to just gang up on him?

Pete had the gauntlet almost all the way off, then when Peter #2 (@Magooglie) started hitting Thanos that disrupted Mantis' control over him. So they would have won if Quill hadn't spazzed out

 

[SaiWa]

International box office stat

First Avenger 370 mil
Winter Soldier 714 mil
Civil War 1153 mil

vs

Thor 449 mil
Dark World 644 mil
Ragnarok 853 mil

You can say Civil War's record is padded by Iron Man, but still, Thor does not have "way larger" fan base, in the MCU. Regardless of whether the writers tweaks their power level base on popularity. Captain America is clearly top 3 in terms of popularity.

I am sorry what? You mean padded by iron man, war machine, black widow, ant man, falcon, vision, scarlet witch, Hawkeye, and the first appearance of black panther and Spider-Man in the MCU world...

Civil war shouldn’t even be know as a captain America movie. Lol

Dark world was a subpar movie but still made almost as much as winter soldier. ragnarok righted that ship completely. Ok maybe not “way” larger fan base but Thor is definitely more popular and even more so now after infinity war.

 

[irish_thug]

Right? DC heroes are so op it makes their comics boring and it makes their characters boring in any versus battle.



Anyway everyone else is just saying how they think it will go with little to no logical basis, worse their arguments hinge on stupid writing every single time. We are obviously more knowledgeable about these characters, and we've destroyed their arguments over and over with scans and logical analysis.


View attachment 379047

Hulk smash puny human logic.

 

[Mike]

Hulk smash puny human logic.

 

[FyrFytr998]

No. Because superman can move thousands of times faster than they can think. And he can instantly kill almost every Avenger in one hit. The only guys tough enough to take a hit from supes are still far too slow to do anything to him

Instantly kill Thor or Hulk? Stop with the drugs.

From the power and abilities descriptions:

Thor: Possesses keen senses that allow him to track objects traveling faster than light.

Magic: Superman's powers come from his alien biology, but he is as vulnerable to magic as any mortal, and can easily fall under the influence of spells, potions, and curses. However, Superman remains very strong, allowing him to put up a greater fight in battles with magical warriors than others would. Magical weaponry has been shown to be able to pierce his otherwise superhumanly hard skin. The precise extent of his vulnerability to magic will according to the magic used (and the whims of the writer).

You talk about being logical, yet won’t acknowledge that on paper, Thor alone has what it takes to beat Supes. He has the strength, reflexes, and magic. He’d put that shiny new axe through Superman’s chest the same way he did Thanos. Coupled with Hulk’s strength, they would deplete Superman’s solar batttery faster than Doomsday did. Not to mention Thor could just BiFrost them somewhere where there is no yellow sun if he had prior knowledge of Superman’s heritage, but I’m talking no prep time here. On paper with all abilities listed, Thor and Hulk can and would get it done.

As long as Superman has a magic invulnerability, and Thor can match his physical attributes. Thor will have the upper hand.

If you're removing writer bullshit and it's just a pure fight with no restrictions, Superman kills them all in less then a second. He can move as fast as the Flash, they can't. Stark has no time to use any tech, he'd be dead.

<{cruzshake}>
See above. Superman cannot move as fast as the Flash. The Flash is humoring him. Barry Allen and Wally West could run at orders of magnitude faster than Superman. Thor has the reflexes to negate any speed advantage Superman has.


I like Superman as much as the next guy. He is the original “ideal” for Superheroes. But he and other characters have been subjected to some very stupid writers. So of course, whoever wins will be determined by whoever is writing the story. I place all my findings on whatever current abilities show up in black and white. And the one constant that has always been Superman’s Achilles heel is magic. Forget the Kryptonite. Forget the Sun. Magic was the very reason DC bought Whiz Comics and the rights of Shazam. Kids were buying more Captain Marvel comics because he was a better version of Superman. So if you can’t beat’em, buy them and force them into obscurity.

 

[Tiny]

Instantly kill Thor or Hulk? Stop with the drugs.

From the power and abilities descriptions:

Thor: Possesses keen senses that allow him to track objects traveling faster than light.

Magic: Superman's powers come from his alien biology, but he is as vulnerable to magic as any mortal, and can easily fall under the influence of spells, potions, and curses. However, Superman remains very strong, allowing him to put up a greater fight in battles with magical warriors than others would. Magical weaponry has been shown to be able to pierce his otherwise superhumanly hard skin. The precise extent of his vulnerability to magic will according to the magic used (and the whims of the writer).

You talk about being logical, yet won’t acknowledge that on paper, Thor alone has what it takes to beat Supes. He has the strength, reflexes, and magic. He’d put that shiny new axe through Superman’s chest the same way he did Thanos. Coupled with Hulk’s strength, they would deplete Superman’s solar batttery faster than Doomsday did. Not to mention Thor could just BiFrost them somewhere where there is no yellow sun if he had prior knowledge of Superman’s heritage, but I’m talking no prep time here. On paper with all abilities listed, Thor and Hulk can and would get it done.

As long as Superman has a magic invulnerability, and Thor can match his physical attributes. Thor will have the upper hand.


<{cruzshake}>
See above. Superman cannot move as fast as the Flash. The Flash is humoring him. Barry Allen and Wally West could run at orders of magnitude faster than Superman. Thor has the reflexes to negate any speed advantage Superman has.


I like Superman as much as the next guy. He is the original “ideal” for Superheroes. But he and other characters have been subjected to some very stupid writers. So of course, whoever wins will be determined by whoever is writing the story. I place all my findings on whatever current abilities show up in black and white. And the one constant that has always been Superman’s Achilles heel is magic. Forget the Kryptonite. Forget the Sun. Magic was the very reason DC bought Whiz Comics and the rights of Shazam. Kids were buying more Captain Marvel comics because he was a better version of Superman. So if you can’t beat’em, buy them and force them into obscurity.

Thor doesnt have speed.

Being able to sense things moving as fast as the speed of light =/= moving as fast as the speed of light.

Show me some medium where hes moving as fast as quick silver or the like.

Thor gets murked

 

[FyrFytr998]

Thor doesnt have speed.

Being able to sense things moving as fast as the speed of light =/= moving as fast as the speed of light.

Show me some medium where hes moving as fast as quick silver or the like.

Thor gets murked

Well that’s just it. With his hammer and his chariot. Thor has never had to “run” anywhere. He’s lazy like that. But he has demonstrated superhuman reflexes on multiple occasions. Again, we’re talking whims of the writer’s. Why would he need to exhibit running when he can fly?

On Marvel’s Power Grid scale. His speed is listed at 6/7 out of a 7/7 in light speed range. Which puts him only one behind Quicksilver. As far as actual running.....

Journey Into Mystery 110 where it was stated that Thor runs so fast as to be invisible to the human eye. In order for one to be invisible to the human eye they must be running faster than the speed of light.

Journey Into Mystery 112 where it was stated that Thor runs the entire length of New York in a "heartbeat".

Fast as Quicksilver? Maybe not as fast, but fast enough to make him his bitch.



From Marvel’s Wiki:

• Superhuman Speed: Even without the Mjolnir, Thor can move at extreme speeds and easily outrun many speedsters (if not all). Thor can fly to the sun in a matter of minutes. Thor was even able to strike down a moving Quicksilver and has claimed to have fought foes faster than him. He can throw Mjolnir at several times the speed of light and also swing Mjolnir at several times the speed of light while his strength was reduced in half. It has been established that the speed of Thor's hammer transcends both time & space. In addition, Thor can appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds. Thor could visually detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happened when Thor was the target of artillery fire, and when he saw the speedy Hermes) Thor once stated that he was as fast as the lightning he commands. Thor can twirl his cape so fast that he creates a tornado.

My decision is based on what data is available to me outside of writer influence in a storyline. And that data clearly shows Thor both physically and magically by himself is on par with Superman if not above it. For Christ’s sake, he killed the marvel Superman equivalent Sentry easily, and the Sentry can take out The Hulk. So put Hulk and Thor together and Superman will go down.

I’ve proven my point. I’ll debate it no further. I like Superman. He’s a favorite of mine. But he would need assistance to beat Thor AND The Hulk.

If you want Superman to win. Fine. Just write it like every other DC writer to date. Have Superman whisper, “Gorr was right.”

 

[Adamant]

The Avengers consist of:
Captain America
Iron Man
Thor
Hulk

Can they beat a bloodlusted Superman?

No.

 

[compressed]

Pete had the gauntlet almost all the way off, then when Peter #2 (@Magooglie) started hitting Thanos that disrupted Mantis' control over him. So they would have won if Quill hadn't spazzed out

Could they beat Thanos without the gauntlet? Isn't Thanos formidable even without them?

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

as a non-comic book fan this is all so confusing. the powers are all over the place. i dont get how superman who could beat all these people without even trying according to some of you gets beat by batman, a dude with a tool belt.

also, i remember watching the hulk growing up. lou ferigno could throw people 20 feet or so, but he certainly wasnt doing any crazy stuff you people claim he could do. and wonder woman surely wouldnt have been able to beat these people as sexy as lynda carter may have been

 

[Towerworld]

Comic Book Su

If there's no kyrptonite, then no. There's not a single superhero that would survive this, period; Besides other kryptonians who enter our atmosphere, of course.

So breaking a farm silo>taking the trillions of tons of concentrated force from a neutron star? Seriously? or overpowering 5 infinity stones when the power stone on its own can destroy planets?

Comic book supes kills the movie or comic avengers but movie supes is so much weaker its not even funny.

 

[Mike]

Could they beat Thanos without the gauntlet? Isn't Thanos formidable even without them?

Yes even without the gauntlet Thanos is massively powerful. He's also a genius and has access to advanced alien tech. Without the stones he's curbstombed the avengers and beat the crap out of the silver surfer.

 

[minute bull]

I like Superman as much as the next guy. He is the original “ideal” for Superheroes. But he and other characters have been subjected to some very stupid writers. So of course, whoever wins will be determined by whoever is writing the story. I place all my findings on whatever current abilities show up in black and white. And the one constant that has always been Superman’s Achilles heel is magic. Forget the Kryptonite. Forget the Sun. Magic was the very reason DC bought Whiz Comics and the rights of Shazam. Kids were buying more Captain Marvel comics because he was a better version of Superman. So if you can’t beat’em, buy them and force them into obscurity.

I believe Superman's vulnerability to magic was John Byrne's doing, or undoing -- creating a less omnipotent Superman. Likewise, Kryptonite, negating the effects of the sun, etc., are all writerly conceits creating obstacles that Superman will ultimately defeat. (Kryptonite itself being an excuse for the Superman radio voice to go on vacation, when another less stentorian actor subbed.)

The nature of Thor's character is one of hubris, which means his stories involving him being humbled. The nature of Superman's stories are his enemies only get as far as he lets them. It's not fair, but ayyy.

Bear in mind every superhero is a derivation of Superman. Hulk is Superman without brains. Batman is Superman without Hulk. Wonder Woman is Superwoman. Green Lantern is Superman via reverse-Kryptonite. Spiderman is Superman as a teenager. Wolverine is hairy Superman. Every primary power of any superhero is a subset Superman already possesses and his default magnitude often hovers at their apexes.

So if we're going to accept the magic vulnerability, which Superman will of course find a way around, then we therefore accept the OP conceits as well. In which case Superman can be considered as Marvel's One Above All. I know it sounds circular, but bear with me: Superman created a Universe called Universe Q, because he wanted to see a world where he didn't exist. In that world, which is to say OUR world -- yours and mine -- we created Superman as a fictional character. Thus, Marvel's universe, in a way, is two levels down from Superman. Marvel rarely breaks the fourth wall outside of comic effect.

 

[Turtlejuice]

Well that’s just it. With his hammer and his chariot. Thor has never had to “run” anywhere. He’s lazy like that. But he has demonstrated superhuman reflexes on multiple occasions. Again, we’re talking whims of the writer’s. Why would he need to exhibit running when he can fly?

On Marvel’s Power Grid scale. His speed is listed at 6/7 out of a 7/7 in light speed range. Which puts him only one behind Quicksilver. As far as actual running.....

Journey Into Mystery 110 where it was stated that Thor runs so fast as to be invisible to the human eye. In order for one to be invisible to the human eye they must be running faster than the speed of light.

Journey Into Mystery 112 where it was stated that Thor runs the entire length of New York in a "heartbeat".

Fast as Quicksilver? Maybe not as fast, but fast enough to make him his bitch.
View attachment 379197
View attachment 379199

From Marvel’s Wiki:

• Superhuman Speed: Even without the Mjolnir, Thor can move at extreme speeds and easily outrun many speedsters (if not all). Thor can fly to the sun in a matter of minutes. Thor was even able to strike down a moving Quicksilver and has claimed to have fought foes faster than him. He can throw Mjolnir at several times the speed of light and also swing Mjolnir at several times the speed of light while his strength was reduced in half. It has been established that the speed of Thor's hammer transcends both time & space. In addition, Thor can appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds. Thor could visually detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happened when Thor was the target of artillery fire, and when he saw the speedy Hermes) Thor once stated that he was as fast as the lightning he commands. Thor can twirl his cape so fast that he creates a tornado.

My decision is based on what data is available to me outside of writer influence in a storyline. And that data clearly shows Thor both physically and magically by himself is on par with Superman if not above it. For Christ’s sake, he killed the marvel Superman equivalent Sentry easily, and the Sentry can take out The Hulk. So put Hulk and Thor together and Superman will go down.

I’ve proven my point. I’ll debate it no further. I like Superman. He’s a favorite of mine. But he would need assistance to beat Thor AND The Hulk.

If you want Superman to win. Fine. Just write it like every other DC writer to date. Have Superman whisper, “Gorr was right.”
View attachment 379205