BJ Penn's biggest issue wasn't his work ethic

[Megatronlee]

It's that he mistakenly thought he could be at his very best without taking steroids like everyone else.

That's why I never view his career as a disappointment the way so many do. What he was able to accomplish as a clean fighter was astonishing. His natural gifts were second to none.

But if he had decided to take the Jon Jones, Anderson Silva route, etc., then there's no doubt in my mind that we would be talking about him as a top 3 atg.

But even still, 2 division champ is nothing to sneeze at when you did it with an estrogen filled dad bod.
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Clean fighter for LIFE.

 

[Viking Power]

No, it was his work ethic, yes men, and inability to dial back his ambitions despite lacking the right preparation. One of the most naturally talented fighters of all time, he needed to stay with Marinovich, stop having his brothers or Parillo run his camps and to stay at 155. It was just one mistake after another. At his apex, he was one of my favorite fighters to watch but he squandered all that talent thinking it was enough.

He never lacked the courage of his convictions but there's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and without the right preparation and people in his corner, it's obvious which side of that line he was on.

TS, read this^^^^!

 

[marvinparsons]

Exactly. I find it funny all these Sherdoggers think BJ is above doing steriods when he's done stuff way worse than them in his life. There's a good chance he probably took them at some point. Who expected Anderson Silva or Jon Jones to pop? Neither are exactly built, and there are steriods that help out in other areas than just muscle building.

It wasn't just lack of work ethic either, it was mostly Penn not being a natural athlete and the sport just passing him by too quickly. He was primarily a BJJ guy with good takedown defense who started to get good at boxing and relied too heavily on his hands. He got away with it for a while because he rarely fought well rounded wrestlers with hands. There weren't that many wrestlers at LW at the time, they were all at WW. And when he did, he lost (GSP, Frankie, Fitch, etc.). Sherk was a good win, but Sherk also didn't shoot for any takedowns against BJ and was relying way too much on his striking at the time which wasn't that great. And Matt Hughes was another good win, but Hughes was a wrestler without any hands, which was a good matchup for BJ on the ground or standing. Others like Serra, Renzo, Stevenson, and Sanchez weren't wrestlers, they were either BJJ guys, strikers, or a mix of the two.

Not trying to crap on him, but he'd get destroyed in either the current 145 or 155 divisions where there are tons of wrestlers with good striking. Just look at the builds of all the current fighters in those divisions. Even the bottom tier ones are still in shape and can easily go 3 rounds. BJ really never had great cardio, strength, or heart unless he was dominating. And the guys today have far better wrestling then any of the people he went against with the exception of GSP. On paper, Frankie, Oliveira, Benson Henderson, and Khabib all have far better records then him and have fought way more diverse competition.

His "peak" was a pretty short window too. He's kind of like Cain Velasquez where people overrate him based on "potential" and how dominant he was within a short window against a limited amount of fighters.

Guys today aren't better wrestlers than Matt Hughes, Fitch, Sherk.

 

[mkt]

BJ Penn has a record of 16 wins and 14 losses. The boxing community laughs that this is a guy considered to be MMA's lightweight division goat. Compare Penn to the GOATs of boxing in the same division.

Completely stupid, apples and oranges comparison. When BJ lost the LW belt, he only had one other loss at LW...in his 4th MMA fight vs. the LW champ Jens Pulver. He also fought Caol Uno and Din Thomas in his 2nd and 3rd fights. How many modern LWs are fighting Top 10 guys that early in their career?

All of BJ's other losses before losing the belt to Frankie were to WW champs (one of which he avenged twice--Matt Hughes) and Lyoto freakin' Machida who was 30 pounds heavier.

BJ's late career losses don't ruin his legacy any more than Fedor's losing to BaderX2 and Mitrione. And speaking of boxing, no serioius boxing fan thinks Roberto Duran's late career losses in the 90s and early 2000s (or his wins against nobodies) negate what he did early in his career.

 

[Rorsahack]

is was sad when he got heel hooked by that rolling dude

 

[Rationality]

The boxing community manufactures its stars. Who gives a shit what each community thinks of the other.

BJ Penn had no interest in padding his record with cans and literally wanted to fight everyone on the planet on beer and hot dogs and without steroids. He was a victim of his own greatness.

GOAT.

The same could be said for Roy Nelson.

 

[HHJ]

The boxing community laughs that this is a guy considered to be MMA's lightweight division goat.

Fuck the boxing community then.

And you too for caring what they think about something they know nothing about.

 

[HHJ]

is diego sanchez some goat? there is nothing impressive about that.

It was an impressive showing by BJ,regardless of his opponent.

We have seen Diego overcome opponents who are better him many times with his unrelenting pressure,and limitless cardio,something BJ had trouble with in other fights,but he could not do it against BJ. He couldnt do anything.

 

[sonhow]

BJ lost many fights yes but most of those losses were after he had fallen off a cliff in terms of competitive ability or against competion others would have avoided.

You could almost say Frankie Edgar in the second fight is supposedly the only truly fair loss of BJs career. He got whooped bad in that one and no excuses can be made.

 

[HHJ]

BJ lost many fights yes but most of those losses were after he had fallen off a cliff in terms of competitive ability or against competion others would have avoided.

You could almost say Frankie Edgar in the second fight is supposedly the only truly fair loss of BJs career. He got whooped bad in that one and no excuses can be made.

His losses before that were fair too.

 

[corrupted]

No it was entirely his work ethic and he did pop for steroids.

He didn’t pop. He used an IV.

 

[Zanmato]

Who is the other best fighter he trained with? Natural talent sure but I wonder how he would have done in a gym with guys that could keep pushing him further

 

[blaseblase]

His biggest issue is that he spent too much time in the wrong weight class. He could have cemented himself as LW GOAT. Instead he spent half of his prime at 170 and lost most of those fights. Then he ended his career on a 7 fight losing streak. That's why his record sucks. Fighting at higher weights and insisting on continuing to fight when he got shot.

 

[spooNN]

HIs worth ethic, his diet ethic were probably not the best. Also wasn't he born in a wealthy family? Not saying that is always a problem but imagine a poor hungry Penn from Rio de Janeiro?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

To be honest I don't think cardio was ever AS big an issue as it was made out to be for him, same as it wasnt for Reem.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

To be honest I don't think cardio was ever AS big an issue as it was made out to be for him, same as it wasnt for Reem.

What about DDP, though, his one round cardio and broken nose are gonna hold him back big time.

 

[Goutfather]

BJ lost many fights yes but most of those losses were after he had fallen off a cliff in terms of competitive ability or against competion others would have avoided.

You could almost say Frankie Edgar in the second fight is supposedly the only truly fair loss of BJs career. He got whooped bad in that one and no excuses can be made.

how can you say that unless you ignore his career before and after that fight? he lost 5 fights before the first edgar fight, not to mention all the losses afterward. they were all fair.

 

[sonhow]

how can you say that unless you ignore his career before and after that fight? he lost 5 fights before the first edgar fight, not to mention all the losses afterward. they were all fair.

Fair as in his natural weight class against people his own size. Fair wrong word but didnt know what else to use.

I did forget the Pulver loss in a brainfart though.

 

[sonhow]

His losses before that were fair too.

They were fair but you could say he was at size disadvantage against everyone but Pulver and Frankie

In a fight with optimal circumstanses or something like that.

 

[HHJ]

They were fair but you could say he was at size disadvantage against everyone but Pulver and Frankie