• Xenforo Cloud is upgrading us to version 2.3.8 on Monday February 16th, 2026 at 12:00 AM PST. Expect a temporary downtime during this process. More info here

BJ Penn's biggest issue wasn't his work ethic

BJ Penn is a weird one, he's ridiculously overrated by the community because of his exploits in higher divisions.
 
sonhow said:
Fair as in his natural weight class against people his own size. Fair wrong word but didnt know what else to use.

I did forget the Pulver loss in a brainfart though.
Click to expand...
i think it’s fair if he weighs in for a fight, he accepts the result. if he had beaten machida, he wouldn’t be saying it’s unfair.
 
Goutfather said:
how can you say that unless you ignore his career before and after that fight? he lost 5 fights before the first edgar fight, not to mention all the losses afterward. they were all fair.
Click to expand...
New MMA fan, huh? You shouldn't get your information from fight finder, without context, it looks pretty ignorant.

Penn fell over a cliff at that time in the same way as others lost many at the end of their career, but only the dense thinkthat makes them lesser. Anderson, Chuck, Fedor, etc. all fell of the cliff, but noobies like to craft MMAth based on these losses, which is hilarious. I'm sure we can characterize Ali's career with his losses to Holmes and Berbick, lol.

Before Edger, he lost to all fighters that were bigger than him except the early career fight against Pulver, which he avenged quite easily in the rematch. He lost to Hughes who was also bigger than him, but he beat Hughes twice. His other losses were at (cough cough) heavyweight against Machida, and twice against GSP who was the GOAT and was considerably bigger. So only ignorants, noobs and casuals think this way about BJ or any of the other greats who (imagine the shock and horrror) actually got old. Imagine that happening to someone.
 
Problem24/7 said:
BJ Penn has a record of 16 wins and 14 losses. The boxing community laughs that this is a guy considered to be MMA's lightweight division goat. Compare Penn to the GOATs of boxing in the same division.
Click to expand...

And knowledgeable fans laugh at people who simply look at numbers to evaluate a record
 
jitzmonkey said:
Dude was a stud when he was (presumably) off the yayo.
So I’d argue that (the type of) motivation does play a big part.

Imagine if it’s data analysis, though.
Click to expand...

Lmao for sucks sake
 
I agree absolutely. Just look at his fight vs GSP 2. The canadian looked like a monster next to BJ, besides his extremely suspect cardio.
 
Problem24/7 said:
BJ Penn has a record of 16 wins and 14 losses. The boxing community laughs that this is a guy considered to be MMA's lightweight division goat. Compare Penn to the GOATs of boxing in the same division.
Click to expand...
Assuming for now that this isn't a troll post.

Firstly, boxing is all about padding records and getting a high number of wins (quality is irrelevant).
MMA is different to that, mostly.

Secondly, BJ wasn't considered great because of his record or the quality of his wins.
He's a bit of an outlier in that regard.

He's mostly seen as somebody who had a lot of natural ability but didn't really live up to it.

You'd have to watch fights to understand that though, most people these days (ie: you) only look at numbers on paper.
 
Levi_ said:
New MMA fan, huh? You shouldn't get your information from fight finder, without context, it looks pretty ignorant.

Penn fell over a cliff at that time in the same way as others lost many at the end of their career, but only the dense thinkthat makes them lesser. Anderson, Chuck, Fedor, etc. all fell of the cliff, but noobies like to craft MMAth based on these losses, which is hilarious. I'm sure we can characterize Ali's career with his losses to Holmes and Berbick, lol.

Before Edger, he lost to all fighters that were bigger than him except the early career fight against Pulver, which he avenged quite easily in the rematch. He lost to Hughes who was also bigger than him, but he beat Hughes twice. His other losses were at (cough cough) heavyweight against Machida, and twice against GSP who was the GOAT and was considerably bigger. So only ignorants, noobs and casuals think this way about BJ or any of the other greats who (imagine the shock and horrror) actually got old. Imagine that happening to someone.
Click to expand...

In his case he stayed around longer post prime and fought quality and often significantly larger comp.

I think BJ is a bit like Chuck in that his really hyped run with the UFC LW title was actually quite late in his prime so when he lost it and dropped off he dropped off fast.

Generally though he just had a rather strange career which is hard to compare to many other fighters.
 
Penn was a Blackbelt within 3 years of training. And straight up won the World Championships being the first american to have done it. He had insane flexibility and Takedown Defence and solid boxing in his prime. His problem was taking on challenges too big will doing too little as this is what had always work up until guys like GSP came up. GSP was the opposite, he analyzed, strategized and worked his ass off. Penn still gave him a run for his money the first time around even when moving up a weightclass. Penn's destruction of Diego and using his legs like arms to trap people and choke em inspired me to take up Boxing and BJJ.

He was special but it's something his record won't reflect. The guy left the UFC and went up to HW to take on Machida lmao. Machida was tearing through everyone at LHW afterwards.
 
HHJ said:
It was an impressive showing by BJ,regardless of his opponent.

We have seen Diego overcome opponents who are better him many times with his unrelenting pressure,and limitless cardio,something BJ had trouble with in other fights,but he could not do it against BJ. He couldnt do anything.
Click to expand...
that's because he wasn't trained by the goat himself at that time. If he had Fabia in his corner, BJ Penn would look like he fought that bouncer again.
 
BJ Penn was a phenom he had his issues but then who doesn't. Using the word "issues" presupposes there's some kind of problem, when in fact he's one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time.
 
Substance Abuse said:
No, it was his work ethic, yes men, and inability to dial back his ambitions despite lacking the right preparation. One of the most naturally talented fighters of all time, he needed to stay with Marinovich, stop having his brothers or Parillo run his camps and to stay at 155. It was just one mistake after another. At his apex, he was one of my favorite fighters to watch but he squandered all that talent thinking it was enough.

He never lacked the courage of his convictions but there's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and without the right preparation and people in his corner, it's obvious which side of that line he was on.
Click to expand...
He got to a point where he just stopped trying to learn. I always go back to the GSP vs Penn fights. The first fight was SUPER close. People still argue about who should have won.

GSP took the lesson that he had to get better and evolve as a fighter.

Penn meanwhile learned nothing from the fight, never pushed himself to evolve, and thought he could just somehow show up again after the same type of training camp and somehow would win the second fight.

Instead, he quit on the stool.

Penn had all the talent and potential to be the GOAT but he got in his own way at every turn. Really sad how he ended up tbh. Tippy Toes Penn was an embarrassment.
 
He was great but could have been greater, maybe even undisputed GOAT... but...

If you wanna narrow it down to 1 thing it was his fight IQ

Bad strategizing, no adjusting mid fight, poor work ethic, having yes men train him etc... it's all just plain stupidity. No amount of PEDs would've fixed that

He is top 5 p4p GOAT though and at LW its 50/50 with Khabib.
 
kingmob6 said:
is diego sanchez some goat? there is nothing impressive about that.
BJ Penn was talented, but he isn't some all time great. He shoudn't be in any conversations for top lists, he was a product of a shallow lightweight division, and had a mediocre career when put into perspective. He is the most overrated fighter in sherdog history.
Click to expand...

U clearly were not watching MMA during that time. This foo watched a few YouTube highlights and looked at BJ's record on wiki and decided to share his opinion 🙄
 
Goutfather said:
i think it’s fair if he weighs in for a fight, he accepts the result. if he had beaten machida, he wouldn’t be saying it’s unfair.
Click to expand...

This example totally speaks to how seriously hew took his career. He was NEVER a HW. LOL. Why on earth he thought a good idea to get fat and fight at that weight when he was clearly the best around at lighter weights is beyond me. Taking on a guy a weight class or two above you is brave. Being 5'8 and wobbling in to fight at HW is not.

If he had taken his career a little more seriously, he'd have been the result of what being a prodigy actually is.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

W
Old Jalin Turner article about his roots and family
Replies
3
Views
237
hogwash
hogwash

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,281,542
Messages
58,374,174
Members
176,016
Latest member
50 caliber beer bottle

Share this page

Back
Top