BJ Penn's biggest issue wasn't his work ethic

[ocfightfan]

It's that he mistakenly thought he could be at his very best without taking steroids like everyone else.

That's why I never view his career as a disappointment the way so many do. What he was able to accomplish as a clean fighter was astonishing. His natural gifts were second to none.

But if he had decided to take the Jon Jones, Anderson Silva route, etc., then there's no doubt in my mind that we would be talking about him as a top 3 atg.

But even still, 2 division champ is nothing to sneeze at when you did it with an estrogen filled dad bod.
View attachment 1025911

Disagree, it was his work ethic, as well as his willingness to listen to others. We know this because after hiring the Marinovich brothers he had his best, most dominant run. Once he kicked them to the curb he fell apart.

 

[VinceArch]

He popped for using an IV out of competition

I wonder why?

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Holy fucking shit I had no idea it was Marv Marinovich who did BJ's S&T training


Wonder how his kid is lol

he only did it for a couple fights. vs KenFlo and Diego. then they split for his first fight vs Edgar, which was by far his most competitive fight with Frankie. i know they are negatively viewed in the sports community but i think their S&C training is the best i've ever seen especially for MMA.

 

[kingmob6]

How do you think he'd do in his prime against the top LWs of today?

if he is in shape and training hard, I think he would be top 7. He has good all around skillset, however, most of the top LWs today would be a very tough out for him.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Disagree, it was his work ethic, as well as his willingness to listen to others. We know this because after hiring the Marinovich brothers he had his best, most dominant run. Once he kicked them to the curb he fell apart.

i wouldn't say it was his most dominant run, it was only for 2 fights. but he never looked better before or after he was with them. mainly due to them getting him into insane cardio shape which allowed his style to flourish without having to hold back. that's why he could beat the shit out of a cardio machine like Diego for 5 rds without difficulty and smash KenFlo for 4. even was able to keep up with Edgar even after leaving the Marinovich's which i contribute to being residuals of Marinovich's training. but after that you're right, he only ever won once more vs Hughes by KO.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

if he is in shape and training hard, I think he would be top 7. He has good all around skillset, however, most of the top LWs today would be a very tough out for him.

i don't know, top 7? BJ is a lot smaller than the LWs are today. he's more of a FW in today's world, and even at that weight there will be guys much bigger than he is.

 

[marvinparsons]

BJ is an anomaly who would fight anyone anywhere any time. The result is a bad record because he fought at weight classes he didn't belong at, kept fighting when he should have retired, took matchups that made no sense (Edgar 3), fought recklessly, didn't use PEDs and fought when he was out of shape. The result of all that is a shitty record.

Penn is THE GUY that didn't do all of the things people say that hate about fighters (rank squatting, weight bullying, PEDs, ducking) and then people point to his record as a criticism. His record is what it is because he didn't do the things you say you hate.

 

[kingmob6]

i don't know, top 7? BJ is a lot smaller than the LWs are today. he's more of a FW in today's world, and even at that weight there will be guys much bigger than he is.

I was responding to a question to where he would be as a LW. I think he is a natural LW personally.

 

[Kryptt]

You had to be there and see it all unravel in it's time. I dislike record bashing but will agree he stayed too long and made bad choices. Hey thats his call. I'm still fond of a number of his fights and he brought top notch entertainment.

 

[Skarsgard]

Intravenous infusions. Hmm, I wonder why?

Could have been several things. I know people who use IVs to get over colds and the flu. I have known people to mask their gear use. He could have been doing a test cut. We don't know.

 

[VinceArch]

Could have been several things. I know people who use IVs to get over colds and the flu. I have known people to mask their gear use. He could have been doing a test cut. We don't know.

We don't but I don't think it's unfair to assume. Not like BJ was tearing up 145 at the time.

 

[marvinparsons]

If you look at Penn's record, the only fights where he lost that a normal modern fighter would even accept are Edgar 1/2, where he was fighting at the correct weight class, with proper training, and while not washed.

The rest of his losses are fights at the wrong weight class (Machida, GSP, Diaz, Rory, Hughes), after he should have retired (Siver, Hall, Edgar 3 etc), or in the case of his loss to Pulver(1) it was like his 4th MMA fight ever, for the belt, two months after his last fight. And nobody fights for the belt in their fourth MMA fight any more.

Someone like Leon, GSP or whomever doesn't even take any of those fights.

It'd be like Volk getting KO'd by Islam and then deciding to go back and fight Gathje, Poirier, Oliveira, maybe even bulk up and fight Ankalaev at HW for shits, then fighting the best guys at 145 when he's 42.

BJ was nuts.

 

[Skarsgard]

We don't but I don't think it's unfair to assume. Not like BJ was tearing up 145 at the time.

This was before the Rory fight, if I remember correctly.
And no, it's not unfair to assume anyone at the top was juicing. I'm just not gonna say he popped for PEDs when he didn't.

 

[VinceArch]

And no, it's not unfair to assume anyone at the top was juicing.

If only all of Sherdog had this viewpoint.

 

[VAfan]

work ethic definitely, as the replies are saying. but also low fight IQ, the guy was a wizard with BJJ but basically went around boxing all the time. used to drive me crazy watching him fight, it seemed like he had the full skill set a la GSP but just never used most of it.

 

[Mesos]

Bj Penn had excellent abilities but always seemed to lose focus and motivation. Which is unfortunate because he could have been an even better champion. He doesn't fit the typical look of an elite athlete or fighter but he had alot of talent. What he accomplished as a fighter was impressive.

 

[JustforBROCK]

If BJ Penn was a elite level lifer athlete - like dedicated to the fullest - he probably would be the greatest ever. I know were talking what if's here but he probably could have won three belts multiple times

 

[don't ask]

No, it was his work ethic, yes men, and inability to dial back his ambitions despite lacking the right preparation. One of the most naturally talented fighters of all time, he needed to stay with Marinovich, stop having his brothers or Parillo run his camps and to stay at 155. It was just one mistake after another. At his apex, he was one of my favorite fighters to watch but he squandered all that talent thinking it was enough.

He never lacked the courage of his convictions but there's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and without the right preparation and people in his corner, it's obvious which side of that line he was on.

It's crazy how the right people can make or break a fighter. Sometimes I think about what we missed out on, what kind of GOATs we never got to see because of determining factors outside of their fighting abilities.

 

[JohnMandick]

Apparently he has/had a serious drug addiction (throughout his career).

At least that is the rumour.

 

[Egészségére!]

His game plan was an issue

For a BJJ “Prodigy” he mostly wanted to box everyone up all the time

If he would’ve taken a page from Maia’s playbook at least some of those L’s would be W’s imo