Biden's gay marriage flip flop

[Denter]

I’m not sure I get your meaning when you say “evolved in tandem with the RCC’s positions.” Are you asking if Biden changed stances simply to oppose conservatives?
I’ll offer you this though: it shouldn’t matter whether a president is Catholic, or some other Christian denomination, or some other non-Christian religion. A president swears an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. Roe is settled. Obergefell is settled. A president should stand up for those things regardless of their personal positions because they are 14th Amendment rights.

Power not being personal is how we got into this mess.

 

[BFoe]

Power not being personal is how we got into this mess.

Which mess?
If we’re still talking about the presidency, I think the current president actually takes his power too personally, and that causes quite a few issues.

 

[Corn Pop Hombre]

Like Hillary and Obama, less than 20 years ago Biden opposed gay marriage.

https://www.washingtonblade.com/202...e-in-2006-clip-blasted-out-by-trump-campaign/

This thread isn't about whether or not the government should define marriage as including same-sex couples (personally I think the government should stay out of marriage altogether). The issue is that Democrats will argue for long-standing norms and then flip on them a few years later. Biden may say he opposes single-payer, but if it become the mainstream position of his party, it's a safe bet he'll support it. Biden may say he doesn't support defunding the police, but if it become the mainstream position of his party, it's a safe bet he'll support it. Biden may say he opposes legalization of marijuana, but if 'decriminalizing drugs' becomes the mainstream position of his party, not only is it a safe bet he'll support it (I have no problem with legalizing marijuana) -- he'll support even bolder change, like putting "safe injection sites" in your neighborhoods.

Wait, you mean to tell me Joe Biden is going to support clean injection sites, defunding the police, universal Healthcare and national cannabis legalization?!

Wtf I love joe biden now.

 

[usmctanker242]

Are you Russian?

40-60 years as an average life span seems... conservatively estimated?

Haha...I meant to write 1/4/ to 1/3... so yeah, more like 60-80 years old was what I was going for in terms of a life. Good catchh.

 

[JDragon]

Haha...I meant to write 1/4/ to 1/3... so yeah, more like 60-80 years old was what I was going for in terms of a life. Good catchh.

There is a nice story going around regarding a former German football player (80s). His club offered him a pay raise of one third. He responded "I won't do it for less than a quarter". And got it.

 

[Prutfis]

A change of mind over 20 years? Doesn´t seem like a flip flop. Now if this was more current, he might change his stance daily since he probably can´t remember what it is.

Isn´t there like a thread that´s over 9000 pages with Trump contradicting himself on Twitter?

 

[jx820]

When the leftist mob is finished cancelling people for their racist past will those who flip-flopped on gay-marriage be next?

"He flip-flopped on gay marriage twenty years ago. Get him!"

You're not wrong.

I can tell you it would be pretty hard for me to back a candidate who got so many basic civil rights questions wrong in the past. Then flipped with the polling on the issue. It was among the reasons I couldn't vote for Hillary, and I don't think I can vote for Biden in good conscience. The best case scenario is that they believe in nothing and just follow the polls. The truth is probably that they know right from wrong, but don't care.

It's not just a liberal question it's a libertarian question. People got hurt by those policies for years, and for no justifiable reason. Fuck everybody who had the power to serve those people and protect their rights and used that power to trample them.

Honestly that's part of why the right wins and the left loses so many elections. Most "libertarians" I know will watch the GOP wipe their ass with your rights, then go vote them in for another term. Progressives and Berniecrats will oppose those people. I'll oppose someone I mostly agree with just for endorsing a candidate like that. But my candidates dont win very often.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Is a change of mind over 20 years really a flip.flop?

Maybe they're just taking a page out if trump's playbook , never admit you are wrong .....ever .

 

[Deleted member 159002]

I’m not sure I get your meaning when you say “evolved in tandem with the RCC’s positions.” Are you asking if Biden changed stances simply to oppose conservatives?
I’ll offer you this though: it shouldn’t matter whether a president is Catholic, or some other Christian denomination, or some other non-Christian religion. A president swears an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. Roe is settled. Obergefell is settled. A president should stand up for those things regardless of their personal positions because they are 14th Amendment rights.

The point is Biden can't be trusted as far as you can throw mularkey. He has no convictions. As the left goes, so goes Biden. He's done this on crime, abortion, gay marriage, transgenderism, and segregation.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I said the district that houses our federal government is the most solidly democrat area of the country, not the biggest state, but we can use the biggest state if you want. They have seen a shift in demographics over the last 40 years that has made it a 1 party state, where voting for change is no longer a thing and you have to leave your home if you don't like it.

I was referring to this: "I don't know if China was in charge, but our biggest state is now majority Mexican." Our biggest state isn't majority Mexican. And demographics didn't make it a solidly blue state. It's not like voting patterns are genetic. The GOP makes a choice to run on white identity politics. If they decided to adopt more popular policies, they could structure their messaging in a way that appeals more broadly.

There is no "anti-immigration mania", there is only anti-illegal immigration mania after having seen the biggest state in the country turn from red state to blue state because of it.

It's interesting that you're framing it that way, as I think that is how a lot of voters look at it, but it's not how the party tries to present it (they tend to support less overtly racist or partisan reasoning, pretending that immigration is hurting wages or causing higher crime). But see above.

 

[jx820]

I'm very much wanting to hold politicians accountable for their past record, but just like a large portion of America, they are allowed to change their mind. As Leslie Knope famously stated "I used to think that chocolate milk came from brown cows. Then I discovered chocolate syrup."

I think MOST people would often disagree with the person they were 20 years ago. That's 1/2 to 1/3 of an average life span so of course peoples opinions on things will change. I said the same thing when people were bashing Hillary for her "flip flop" on gay marriage...I myself used to be against it, and as I grew up and matured I couldn't give a shit less about it.

I'm all for people improving over time and opening up to new ideas, but the president of the united states doesn't have the luxury of a 20 year learning curve on civil rights, human rights, and basic human decency. They pretty much have to get it right the first time every time.

"My bad" doesn't cut it when you spent 20 years advocating for people to be discriminated against by their government. If you can't pass that level of gut check morality by your 40s, your soul is dogshit and you are unfit for office.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

The trans issue is so far down on my list of things that determine who I vote for that it’s not really worth it to me to discuss my opinions on the matter. I have a family and a job. I’m much more concerned about issues that affect labor and worker s rights, the environment and education.

You may not care if people are forced to affirm nonsense, but to call someone who supports using state power to punish people for not accepting new definitions of concepts that are absolutely basic to human identity which have been used for thousands of years "moderate" is simply absurd.

Just curious, would the government forcing people to affirm certain religious doctrines be so far down on your list of things that determine who you vote for that it wouldn't be worth it to for you to discuss?

 

[panamaican]

I mean I get the general point of the OP re: Biden's flip flopping on various issues but it's kind of weird to structure an argument against a politician as "When his constituents change their mind, that politician follows their lead."

 

[Jack V Savage]

I mean I get the general point of the OP re: Biden's flip flopping on various issues but it's kind of weird to structure an argument against a politician as "When his constituents change their mind, that politician follows their lead."

If your goal is authoritarian rule enforcing unpopular policies, it's not weird at all.

 

[4daLuLZ]

Is a change of mind over 20 years really a flip.flop?

It is if it meets my narrative.

 

[4daLuLZ]

Ugh, not sure what the TS was expecting. Leftists will defend Biden to the extreme. I mean, he went and told a black guy he wasn't black enough if he didn't vote for him....literally just a fucking month ago but their defense of Biden is "but, but Trump is racist too!!!!" This is a guy that has sexually assaulted women and treats women like objects and does weird fucking things in general around women, all while the camera's are rolling. LOL at thinking a 77 year old white man changed his view on gay marraige instead of just saying it so he can get extra votes.

LOL at Biden being the best candidate for the Democrats. He represents everything they hate: White, rich, privileged, racist and anti-gay.

A better Trump is still a better Trump.

 

[44nutman]

I used to do an eight ball of coke every weekend over 20 years ago, and now I don't does that make me a flip flopper.

Just for the record 20 years ago, Trump was pro abortion, but I guess he read in 2 Corinthians that abortion is not good, so now he is against it.

 

[panamaican]

If your goal is authoritarian rule enforcing unpopular policies, it's not weird at all.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

You may not care if people are forced to affirm nonsense, but to call someone who supports using state power to punish people for not accepting new definitions of concepts that are absolutely basic to human identity which have been used for thousands of years "moderate" is simply absurd.

Just curious, would the government forcing people to affirm certain religious doctrines be so far down on your list of things that determine who you vote for that it wouldn't be worth it to for you to discuss?

Ugh. Want to give me a link or better description of which of his policies you are talking about. Like I said spend very little time thinking about trans people but if it’s as important as you say I’ll take a look.

 

[nostradumbass]

I was referring to this: "I don't know if China was in charge, but our biggest state is now majority Mexican." Our biggest state isn't majority Mexican. And demographics didn't make it a solidly blue state. It's not like voting patterns are genetic. The GOP makes a choice to run on white identity politics. If they decided to adopt more popular policies, they could structure their messaging in a way that appeals more broadly.



It's interesting that you're framing it that way, as I think that is how a lot of voters look at it, but it's not how the party tries to present it (they tend to support less overtly racist or partisan reasoning, pretending that immigration is hurting wages or causing higher crime). But see above.

If you're finally willing to discuss it with race removed, I'm way more than happy to have that discussion.


Just politically, what has turned CA into the bluest by numbers state in the country from a red state a few years ago? What are the changes?