Biden's gay marriage flip flop

[BFoe]

Aside from wantig to force people in the workplace to pretend people born with testicles are women (which Gorsuch and 5 other SC justices already took care of by redefining what "sex" meant in the 1960s):

https://joebiden.com/lgbtq-policy/

Not a moderate.

Sorry to jump back in here, but I wanted to since you and I discussed this earlier. I’ll be totally honest: I don’t see why this is such a big issue to you or others. There is a trans employee at my company (could be more for all I know). Born female, in some state of transition (not my business obviously). Without going into my personal feelings, I want to make clear:
I don’t have to “pretend“ anything. It’s a workplace. Call people what they want to be called. Refer to them how they’d like to be referred to. It’s professional. It’s respectful. It’s good manners. And frankly, it’s not that damn hard.

As to Title VII, what is your complaint? Perhaps you think SCOTUS interpreted it incorrectly? Ok. Do you at least agree that people should not be fired for discriminatory reasons? I.e., a person should not be terminated solely because they are male, female, black, white, some other race, gay, straight, bi, queer, etc.
Agree or disagree?

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

I dunno, but this is pretty rich from 25 years ago.



lol @ Cunningham

Cunningham resigned from the House on November 28, 2005, after pleading guilty to accepting at least $2.4 million in bribes, making him the most corrupt member of Congress ever if measured by the amount of bribes he admitted accepting.

He pleaded guilty to federal charges of tax evasion, and conspiracy to commit bribery, mail fraud, and wire fraud. He was sentenced to eight years and four months in prison and was ordered to pay $1.8 million in restitution.

In an editorial on November 29, the Washington Post called the Cunningham affair "the most brazen bribery conspiracy in modern congressional history". Later that day, President George W. Bush called Cunningham's actions "outrageous" at a press briefing in El Paso. He also said that Cunningham should "pay a serious price" for his crimes.[1][2][3]

Bernie is just...awesome. God I wish he was president.

 

[MVelsor]

That's wild, what was Gunderson's deal?

...Yeah, apparently this:

In 1994, Gunderson was outed as gay on the House floor by representative Bob Dornan (R-CA) during a debate over federal funding for gay-friendly curricula, making him one of the first openly gay members of Congress and the first openly gay Republican representative.

In 1996, Gunderson was the only Republican in Congress to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, and he has been a vocal supporter of gay rights causes since leaving Congress. During his time in the House, Gunderson was one of only two gay Republicans serving in Congress, the other being Jim Kolbe of Arizona.[5][6][7][8][9]

 

[The Stoat]

Maybe he can’t be trusted; that’s the same song and dance that we all seem to go through, regardless of party. It’s a shame. Liberals (including me, I suppose) let the DNC get away with force-feeding us candidates and it’s pretty ridiculous.
That said, I agree somewhat with @Hungry Joe in regards to the issues we’re discussing. I’d like to see a president that appoints qualified personnel and can keep a stable administration for starters, and then focus on healthcare, the environment, the economy (including things like infrastructure). Things like LGBTQ rights are important to me insofar as they are equality issues. Our nation was founded on the “self evident truth” that we are all created equal. So it’s important to me that LGBTQ workers can’t be fired solely because of their sex and issues associated with it, for example. It’s important to me that they can get married just like I can. I don’t draw a separation between gay rights, or trans rights, and human/civil rights. They are the same.

The problem with the latest ruling is that the funeral home had a director go on vacation and come back with lipstick and a dress on. That's mental illness. You can't run a funeral home with mentally ill Caitlyn Jenner meeting with families that just lost grandpa. The funeral home and other businesses should have the right to get rid of people that show up to work like this. If you want rights, dress up like Barbie on your own time, but at work you dress and act a certain way. You can't bring that stuff to work.

 

[MVelsor]

Bernie is just...awesome. God I wish he was president.

Homo'z In Teh Military!

Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben (September 17, 1730 – November 28, 1794), also referred to as Baron von Steuben (German: [fɔn ˈʃtɔʏbn̩]), was a German-American military officer and Major General during the American Revolutionary War. He is credited with being one of the fathers of the Continental Army in teaching them the essentials of military drills, tactics, and disciplines. He wrote Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States, the book that was the standard United States drill manual until the War of 1812 and served as George Washington's chief of staff in the final years of the war.

On the recommendation of Benjamin Franklin, Washington brought in von Steuben, who had been an officer on the German General staff. He joined Washington's army at Valley Forge in February 1778 and began close relationships with military officers Benjamin Walker and William North. Despite his sexual orientation, there was never a formal investigation of von Steuben and he received a full Congressional pension after the war.[1][2][3][4]

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Sorry to jump back in here, but I wanted to since you and I discussed this earlier. I’ll be totally honest: I don’t see why this is such a big issue to you or others. There is a trans employee at my company (could be more for all I know). Born female, in some state of transition (not my business obviously). Without going into my personal feelings, I want to make clear:
I don’t have to “pretend“ anything. It’s a workplace. Call people what they want to be called. Refer to them how they’d like to be referred to. It’s professional. It’s respectful. It’s good manners. And frankly, it’s not that damn hard.

As to Title VII, what is your complaint? Perhaps you think SCOTUS interpreted it incorrectly? Ok. Do you at least agree that people should not be fired for discriminatory reasons? I.e., a person should not be terminated solely because they are male, female, black, white, some other race, gay, straight, bi, queer, etc.
Agree or disagree?

The issue is that demanding people affirm nonsense (e.g. that someone born with testicles is a woman) is an affront to people's dignity.

I agree on laws against race and sex discrimination (with some exceptions on the latter). Homosexuality, depends on the workplace. In the public sector gays shouldn't face discrimination, but the people running religious schools should be just as free to fire/not hire someone for violating their faith's sexual ethics on homosexuality as their faith's ethics on cohabitation. Regarding transgenders, no. Absolutely not. People should be free to treat men like men and women like women.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Like Hillary and Obama, less than 20 years ago Biden opposed gay marriage.

https://www.washingtonblade.com/202...e-in-2006-clip-blasted-out-by-trump-campaign/

This thread isn't about whether or not the government should define marriage as including same-sex couples (personally I think the government should stay out of marriage altogether). The issue is that Democrats will argue for long-standing norms and then flip on them a few years later. Biden may say he opposes single-payer, but if it become the mainstream position of his party, it's a safe bet he'll support it. Biden may say he doesn't support defunding the police, but if it become the mainstream position of his party, it's a safe bet he'll support it. Biden may say he opposes legalization of marijuana, but if 'decriminalizing drugs' becomes the mainstream position of his party, not only is it a safe bet he'll support it (I have no problem with legalizing marijuana) -- he'll support even bolder change, like putting "safe injection sites" in your neighborhoods.

Make your next thread about your outrage over the fact that Trump used to be a pro-choice democrat but now claims to be a pro-life republican. I'm sure that political flip-flop really boils your beans, too.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Make your next thread about your outrage over the fact that Trump used to be a pro-choice democrat but now claims to be a pro-life republican. I'm sure that political flip-flop really boils your beans, too.

With Trump there's much less body of work to assess than Biden, who has been in Washington since the New Deal. I don't deny that Trump has never flip flopped. But he has demonstrated enough consistency on trade, immigration, and regulation of business to identify a set of convictions. What convictions does Biden have?

 

[ocean size]

I'm singling Biden out because he's his party's nominee lol.

So I'm not sure why you are singling him out - I understand he's in the general election, but his opponent has flip flopped in the political winds on everything.

As I said, I get that, but what's your measuring stick? His opponent? Every other primary or general candidate from this decade outside the two I mentioned? Either way do you really suggest his consistency / shifting positions over decades or evidence of a coherent political vision is worse by comparison?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

As I said, I get that, but what's your measuring stick? His opponent? Every other primary or general candidate from this decade outside the two I mentioned? Either way do you really suggest his consistency / shifting positions over decades or evidence of a coherent political vision is worse by comparison?

I'd be voting Trump against of any the Dems who ran, but I'm focusing on Biden because Biden is the nominee. Other candidates didn't have the flip flopping problem Biden has. What are Biden's convictions? Trump has shown he's willing to challenge his party on immigration and trade. On what issues can someone trust Biden to stand for something in opposition to many in his party?

 

[BFoe]

The problem with the latest ruling is that the funeral home had a director go on vacation and come back with lipstick and a dress on. That's mental illness. You can't run a funeral home with mentally ill Caitlyn Jenner meeting with families that just lost grandpa. The funeral home and other businesses should have the right to get rid of people that show up to work like this. If you want rights, dress up like Barbie on your own time, but at work you dress and act a certain way. You can't bring that stuff to work.

No, this employee actually informed their boss they were transitioning. They had actually lived and dressed as a female outside of work, and in fact, had been seeing a counselor for gender issues for 4 years prior to telling her boss and co-workers that she was transitioning. She also planned to abide by the dress code and policies for females at that workplace. The funeral director didn’t even use the defense you are claiming—he used the old, tired, “This is a Christian funeral home, and discriminating against people and screwing them over is part of my religious freedom!”
Of the 3 cases before the SCOTUS recently, that one was the most cut and dry imo.

The issue is that demanding people affirm nonsense (e.g. that someone born with testicles is a woman) is an affront to people's dignity.

I agree on laws against race and sex discrimination (with some exceptions on the latter). Homosexuality, depends on the workplace. In the public sector gays shouldn't face discrimination, but the people running religious schools should be just as free to fire/not hire someone for violating their faith's sexual ethics on homosexuality as their faith's ethics on cohabitation. Regarding transgenders, no. Absolutely not. People should be free to treat men like men and women like women.

Well, you are of course entitled to your opinions; but I won’t pretend to understand some of it, because I honestly don’t. An “affront to your dignity”? Cmon, man. Someone asks to be called by a certain name at work, or a certain pronoun, and you do it because refusing to address someone the way they want to be addressed is what jerks do, you know? Feel privately about it however you like, I guess. But for me, it honestly doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
I agree that when it comes to religious institutions—churches, synagogues, etc, it gets complicated. This is not the same to me as this nonsense that Burwell v Hobby Lobby opened the door for: namely, that my craft shop, or chicken sandwich restaurant somehow has a religious identity which enables its owners and managers to discriminate wholesale against whomever they determine “violates their religious faith.” Clever attempt at excusing their hatred and discrimination, but that argument doesn’t fly with me.

 

[MVelsor]

On what issues can someone trust Biden to stand for something in opposition to many in his party?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

I posted this earlier in the thread. Deserves reposting:


If Biden talked like that in 2020 he would be called "literally Jefferson Davis".

 

[ultramanhyata]

With Trump there's much less body of work to assess than Biden, who has been in Washington since the New Deal.

 

[ocean size]

On what issues can someone trust Biden to stand for something in opposition to many in his party?

Well, considering he was the most centrist candidate in the primary and was not only not for M4A but didn't even bullshit about 'doing a study on it' or whatever... at a time 8 out of 10 democrats and 6 out of 10 independents favour M4A.

It seems like your general concerns are on social issues like transgender civil rights. Biden has come out in vocal support of gender identity as a protected class at a time that a majority of people, even a majority of polled republican voters do as well. So I'm not sure I'm seeing the danger of the shifts in his views when the shift has always been a regression towards the mean of the electorate- its not like he's letting the tail wag the dog and his platform get pulled left by fringe democratic activists. The majority of the country is fine with transgender people not getting fired for presenting as a woman when they have XY chromosomes.

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

Homo'z In Teh Military!

Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben (September 17, 1730 – November 28, 1794), also referred to as Baron von Steuben (German: [fɔn ˈʃtɔʏbn̩]), was a German-American military officer and Major General during the American Revolutionary War. He is credited with being one of the fathers of the Continental Army in teaching them the essentials of military drills, tactics, and disciplines. He wrote Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States, the book that was the standard United States drill manual until the War of 1812 and served as George Washington's chief of staff in the final years of the war.

On the recommendation of Benjamin Franklin, Washington brought in von Steuben, who had been an officer on the German General staff. He joined Washington's army at Valley Forge in February 1778 and began close relationships with military officers Benjamin Walker and William North. Despite his sexual orientation, there was never a formal investigation of von Steuben and he received a full Congressional pension after the war.[1][2][3][4]

Interesting, it seems that not only do gays have a long history of serving in the military, but some of the greatest soldiers of all time have been gay. Very cool.

 

[blaseblah]

It wasn't a politically popular opinion to support gay marriage 20 years ago and now it is. As soon as it became politically viable, Biden flipped.

 

[The Stoat]

No, this employee actually informed their boss they were transitioning. They had actually lived and dressed as a female outside of work, and in fact, had been seeing a counselor for gender issues for 4 years prior to telling her boss and co-workers that she was transitioning. She also planned to abide by the dress code and policies for females at that workplace. The funeral director didn’t even use the defense you are claiming—he used the old, tired, “This is a Christian funeral home, and discriminating against people and screwing them over is part of my religious freedom!”
Of the 3 cases before the SCOTUS recently, that one was the most cut and dry imo.

Well the man is not a female. He is a biological male with a mental illness. And businesses should have the right to get rid of people that bring their mental illness into the work place. Play dress up Barbie on your own time.

 

[Bamboozled]

People have to understand historical concept. You can't criticize people for opposing gay marriage in 1980. You can't criticize people for owning slaves in 1750. That was just the normal during those times.

In the Netherlands they actually destroyed a statue of a Dutch explorer who captured two ships of slaves from the Portuguese and released all of the slaves again "because of racism". People don't even understand history they just blindly yell at shit and pretend to be victims.

lmfao is this actually true?

 

[blaseblah]

The big problem here is that Biden will have to give and ear to the Marxist far left nuts in the Democrat Party. If he is elected, no doubt he will cater to them. Flip flopping on issues is to be expected.

Lol Biden has never catered to the left. He explicitly rejected them during the primary. If he wins he will owe them nothing.